Disaster barter items...

[Victor3]

 I've been clearing space and generating a little cash by selling off stuff to prepare for a possible unpleasant future incident. I'm thinking about what the best items to stock up on might be to help get my family through a difficult time. Being in a city with no place to easily get away to, I'm hoping to be able to stay put and ride out whatever might happen.

 Supplies for our own use are the primary concern, so much of our limited space will be dedicated to those. In addition, I'm trying to decide what kinds (and how much) of 'extra' items will be wanted by others that we can use for trade. I'm concentrating on consumable, somewhat compact things that we will be able to use ourselves if no disaster occurs before the items become expired or otherwise unusable. We use stuff like...

Candles
Lamp oil
Wooden matches/disposable lighters
Triox bars/sterno/denatured alcohol/charcoal lighter fluid
Disposable plates, cups, silverware
Aluminum foil/plastic wrap
Trash bags
Sandwich and other plastic storage bags, food and drink containers
Feminine hygene
Toothpaste
Mouthwash
Vitamins/dietary supplements
1st aid stuff (bandages, neosporin, pain relievers, etc.)
Cotton cloth (rags from used clothing)
Gloves
T-shirts, socks, etc.
Tape
Glue
Wire/rope/twine/cord
Plastic sheet
Various soaps/cleansers
Bleach
Batteries
Canned food
Sugar
Flour
Baking soda
Cooking oil
Wine
Coffee/tea/creamer

 What other semi & non-perishable consumables will folks need/want that won't take up a whole lot of of space?

[Graybeard]

I believe you are kidding yourself. If you think you'll be able to stay in any city of any size at all and defend what you have for more than a couple days after the SHTF then you just aren't being realistic. Unless you have a place underground to hide in that has a serious armor steel entry then you'll be over run within a couple days to a week at most.

[myronman3]

cigerettes and liquor.   

[charles p]

Call Acorn.  They have a plan for you already.

[briarpatch]

A guy I read about in Argentina that went through their economic collapse  some years ago said that batteries and flashlights were highly sought after. Most movement was after dark and the work you did in your home was with flashlight.
When the power is down the night is dark.

[Victor3]

I believe you are kidding yourself. If you think you'll be able to stay in any city of any size at all and defend what you have for more than a couple days after the SHTF then you just aren't being realistic. Unless you have a place underground to hide in that has a serious armor steel entry then you'll be over run within a couple days to a week at most.

 Sounds like the makings for a good movie plot, but I'm more interested in preparing for what might happen in real life if we had a major earthquake, prolonged power outage (a disaster in any large city) or something else that would hinder normal commerce and emergency sevices for a time. Having batteries to trade for someone's unused antibiotic prescription might be life-saving.

 As I recall, most US cities that have had some kind of disaster befall them are still around, and the majority of the people in them at the time survived. I don't remember anythin that required a bunker.

[teamnelson]

 What you are describing is a natural disaster, which are unpredictable, and for which you would reasonably expect relief workers. No barter system necessary, right? All will be well, use cash.

However, what many are beginning to believe will be a real life event in the near future would suggest an armored door though, based on the logical progress of current events, and on the example of Katrina, Haiti & Chile. After the initial unpleasantness, bartering will be the norm. You might consider durable mechanical items in addition to consumables, like things that don't require power.

[Victor3]

A guy I read about in Argentina that went through their economic collapse  some years ago said that batteries and flashlights were highly sought after. Most movement was after dark and the work you did in your home was with flashlight.
When the power is down the night is dark.

 Yup. I think lights & batteries will be a hot item. I've got a bunch of LED keychain lights with a 10 year shelf life lithium 'button' battery I got for ~$2.00 each a while back. Never replaced a battery in one; I just toss it when it's dead because the battery costs a buck.

[Victor3]

What you are describing is a natural disaster, which are unpredictable, and for which you would reasonably expect relief workers. No barter system necessary, right? All will be well, use cash.

 You might consider durable mechanical items in addition to consumables, like things that don't require power.

 I'd hope not, but if relief were delayed for some time or that "something else" I mentioned (hyperinflation, etc.) were serious enough to impede normal commerce so that my family and I were not able to obtain some of the things we (or others) needed right away, wouldn't it be prudent to have extra supplies on hand? It would only be stuff we'd eventually use up anyway.

 Another factor is the ability to help others. I have friends and neighbors who might need something and I'd like to provide it even if I got nothing in return.

 I have durable items on hand that some people might need, but most folks I know around here also have similar things on hand. We would borrow them from eachother (I'm blessed with some really great neighbors). Consumables are what might not be available after a short time.

 Anyhow, I'm stocking up regardless. I don't see any downside. Cheaper by the dozen for most items, so if the zombies kill me and steal my stuff I'm not out that much cash. They'll have literally millions of homes needing to be overrun, so maybe I'll have time to build that bunker before they get to mine 

[AtlLaw]

if the zombies kill me and steal my stuff I'm not out that much cash.

Comeon, let's get real here!     Be serious now, zombies don't steal.   

[squirrellluck]

AtlLaw, you would know more about the legality of it but if zombies take me and eat me without my consent I consider myself to be stolen! However you might argue that if I was eaten on the premises that technically I was not removed from the property Therefore I was not stolen I think?

[Victor3]

if the zombies kill me and steal my stuff I'm not out that much cash.

Comeon, let's get real here!     Be serious now, zombies don't steal.   

 Oh. I didn't know that. Do they barter?

[teamnelson]

It'd be good to keep a supply of brains on hand sounds like ...

[Victor3]

 How dare you, Sir.

 I am of royal blood; They call me Barren of Grey Matter....

[bilmac]

I would look harder at your list. I can't see that paper plates would be a real demand item. As far as light, batteries have a shelf life even if they are never used. How about those self generating lights that you crank or shake.

I would definately have food stuffed into every corner of space I had. Not expensive canned stuff, but dry things that last forever that you can get cheap now. Pasta, beans, rice, they call them empty calories now but what you are going to need to hole up is calories to keep your body working. Suppliment a poor diet with vitamine pills.

Lots of blankets and warm clothes, the electricity and heating systems will be off.

A means to store a lot of water and a way to collect it when it rains.

[teamnelson]

How dare you, Sir.

 I am of royal blood; They call me Barren of Grey Matter....

 , then you shouldn't be bothered by zombies.

[pab1]

A means to store a lot of water and a way to collect it when it rains.

IMO, water purification products would be very useful as barter items too. The bleach will work, but filters or products like Polar Pure would have high value.

[Victor3]

I would look harder at your list. I can't see that paper plates would be a real demand item.

 You could be right on that. I was thinking with water maybe in short supply, people wouldn't want to do dishes with it.

 One reason I'm gonna stock up on stuff is because of what I experienced during the 1992 Los Angeles riots. My Wife and I planned to do so afterward but never did. Even though we had no rioting/looting in the 'burbs where we live, stores in our area were out of stock on a lot of items (no common size batteries at all) after a couple of days. As stock came in it was snapped up. Nobody knew if it would spread into our area or how long it would last.

 In my Parents' part of town, stores were either closed due to actual looting, fear of looting or sold out of most essentials. Many windows on the main drag were shot out. It took the National Guard being deployed before businesses would open and restock.

 Cash isn't of much use if there's nothing to buy...

[teamnelson]

Victor, your last point is kinda the point ... if you're gonna prepare, prepare for the worst case scenario. Don't plan for FEMA, National Guard, normalcy or anything to ever be the same. Cash will be useful only as paper. That's a real life scenario today in Chile, Haiti, parts of Asia, Africa ... I stockpile the means to make or acquire what I need indefinitely, over and above 30 days of consumables. I expect barter items will include knowledge (I.e. how to), tools, meds, skill, ammo.

Instead of paper plates I use a steel cup, which I've ate, drank, brewed coffee and shaved in alternatively for two trips to Iraq. Sand cleans it well if there's no water. I suspect those will be popular a few months in. Good useful knives. Rope or cord. Plastic sheeting. Crank lights or radios. Duct tape ... great bandage.

Water purification with bleach or tabs can harm you, especially if you're dehydrated. Filters are best, and you can build your own with a bucket and sand. So Id stock buckets, wire mesh in 1/2", 1/4", and 1/8".

[bilmac]

I definately would be thinking long term too. Hyperinflation is almost guaranteed maybe worldwide this time. Be thinking about what you are going to do if the paper money you take to the store weighs more than the groceries you bring home. Living in the burbs gives you some options you wouldn't have in the inner city. Water will be an immediate necessity, even before food. Depending on where you live you may be able to keep up by collecting what you need off your roof. You will need gutters and a storeage tank. If disaster never strikes you haven't lost a lot, rainwater is better for your lawn than the chlorinated stuff from your pipes. The filter Mr Nelson speaks of is a little more complicated than a bucket and sand. Will your internet always be working? Google Slow Sand Filtration now and at least get the concept in your head.

You say you have good neighbors, talk to them now and maybe start acting like a little safe haven community now. If he doesn't have any guns, think about having something available for him. If he has garden space and your lot is covered with cement work out a deal.

I don't know about your neighborhood, but where I live folks are getting scared. I mentioned that I hoped our Church could act like the Church in Acts publicaly in a meeting almost a year ago and right away church people started doing things that could contribute to the long term sustainability of our body. A couple that lives in town bought 20 head of chickens and they are producing like crazy. They don't want to sell eggs, they just bring them to Church. I have been buying heirloom seeds and I only plant a few from each package to see what works, and to keep up a good seed bank. I give the remainder to other folks, and they are growing them. I'm cutting down cottonwoods and elms and replacing them with fruit trees and berry bushes. Folks are digging up lawn and putting in garden. Although we don't really talk about it I can see what our folks are thinking from what they are doing.

[Empty Quiver]

1lb propane bottles for light and cooking, might even get a couple of the single burner stove attachments. Power inverters, large enough to run small appliance off of your car. Good solid LED flashlights, and batteries. Cases of canned meals type food, ravioli, soup, that sort of thing, and coffee too.

If you are thinking refugee type situation I would stock up on blue tarps, light rope, and wagons or karts to haul stuff. Bicycles that are in decent repair, tire patching kits, air pumps. You can't really plan on fuel for your car, and hiways will be all blocked up anyway.

If I were in the south I would want the concession on Gold Bond Powder, about the time A/C shut down that truly would be gold. I'm a northerner though maybe it ain't that big a deal down there.

[Victor3]

 Good thoughts, folks...

 bilmac - It's great you've been able to get involvement within your community. Although we're all friendly on my block it's been difficult to get anything cohesive going. When we tried to get a Neighborhood Watch program established only a few showed up to the meeting. Guess we should have waited until the kids' soccer season was over.

 TN - I wish I had more useful knowledge/skills. I do have a small home machine shop, can weld and do mechanical repairs if need be. Need to get more 1st aid training asap.

 I have 150 gal of potable water on hand but need to buy/make a filter of some sort. We usually have fog/dew at night here near the coast. I imagine everyone around here could collect at least some significant water from the roof much of the year. I could probably get a glass of water off my car right now by soaking up the dew with a rag.

 I've got a small gas generator and one of my trucks has an inverter but I don't think gas will be available for long under most circumstances. I don't have any way to store much safely.

 EQ - We use 1# propane canisters for camping. I should get a bunch of those. I know at least a couple of my neighbors use them because I see small propane stoves at our block parties. Another thing we use for camping are alcohol stoves made from beer cans. Neat little doo-dads that only require a dab of fuel to boil a quart of water. Most folks normally have some kind of fuel on hand that will burn in them and they're simple and free to make...



 Bicycles and repair supplies are a great idea; I ride regularly and so do some of my neighbors. Got one bike with a 50cc motor on it that I should put back into working order. Maybe fit it with a bullet-proof fairing just in case. 

 Many of my neighbors are armed but I'll be happy to provide for any in need. I pity the zombie fool who thinks ol' Tom (Vietnam Vet & biker) will be a pushover.

[teamnelson]

Victor, if you cranked out some of those beercan stoves you'd have a valuable commodity for barter I'm thinking. With your mechanical experience, you'll be an asset to any community.

[bilmac]

Guys with practical skills, who can make things that people need will once again be valuable in the world.

[markp]

The best real life book to read about life after a diaster that I have read is the" great new orleans gun grab " This will give you  lots of food for thought. Greaybeard may not be too far off. Read this book if you dare too . 

[Victor3]

Victor, if you cranked out some of those beercan stoves you'd have a valuable commodity for barter I'm thinking.

 I should do that. They don't take long to make.

 I'd encourage anyone interested in survival, camping, etc. to experiment with little wood and alcohol cookers. Most can easily be put together out of junk around the house and only require small quantities of cheap or free fuel. A lot more efficient than building an open fire, and the alcohol burners can be used indoors if need be.

 Solar cookers are also useful as they require no fuel. I have a large fresnel lens that will heat a hot dog in a few minutes. A solar oven can easily be made from cardboard, aluminum foil, wire and tape. I've even seen plans for them using an umbrella lined with foil.

 My Son and I call this 8" parabolic mirror "The Death Ray" because we use it to fry wasp nests under the eaves of the house. It could also be used to heat food if need be...



 You can also melt aluminum for casting parts or heat steel for blacksmithing with a simple charcoal forge made from a flower pot. That could come in handy.

[myronman3]

hey victor, if you wanted to do a demo on how to make those beer can burners, i bet everyone would be appreciative.   i know i would like to know how to do it. 

[243dave]

  It might not be as good as Victors but here is one off u-tube that seems well made  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj7PIhjPLxA&feature=related , there is a part two on how to light it.  If you got 12-13 minutes to kill check it out, part 2 is on the list on the right.   

[Victor3]

hey victor, if you wanted to do a demo on how to make those beer can burners, i bet everyone would be appreciative.   i know i would like to know how to do it. 

 Actually, there are better instructions (and like 243dave notes, videos) out there than I could come up with.

 The one I show above is a "penny stove." The website for it is...

http://www.jureystudio.com/pennystove/

 Lot of info on wood burning stoves, etc. there also. One of the better websites but there are several others.

 This is one of my own designs, made from a Heineken can bottom and the top portion of one of the new 'aluminum bottles' they make now. It really cranks out the heat. Here it's shown with the cap off but I have two caps with different size holes punched in them that reduce the flame and make it burn longer...



 I even use these things to cook at home with just for fun. 

[woodchukhntr]

.22 ammo.