Disaster barter items...

[El Gringo]

firesteels (for when the matches and bic lighters run out )

Dont forget the manual can openers.

[SHOOTALL]

Tools would be nice to have , an axe to get wood for all those fires ya start . Water filters and tablets  . Rope , sewing materials , nails and screws . knives . The things in life we could not do well with out .
Seeds

[mechanic]

Boy scout field manual.  Still hard to beat after all these years.  I keep a pack in my closet ready to go.  Take down 22.  2,000 rounds.  Knives.  First aid.  Boy Scout field manual.  It will remind you of all you have forgotten.

[torpedoman]

toilet paper will be very high on the barter list.

[mcwoodduck]

While I do not share Greybeards I dea that there will be hords of people that will over run you.
I think everyone in a city will as time goes on get more and more desperate as resources are consumed and families may start looting together.
and the longer the problem lasts the more desperate people will get.
I have been buying Silver coins and keep them as barter figuring it will be easier to carry 10 pounds of coins reather than  trying to either carry or run a whole Mini Mart.  Hard assests will be worth things where as paper $ may not.
I have a well stocked first aid kit including dental.
I figure I will leave my Semi City and head to either friends or to the family farm across the country and use Silver to obtain what I can or do not have. 

[gypsyman]

I read, and follow the idea, that anything can be bartered, I can also use myself. I'm planning on the fact I have friends and relatives close by. If we need to trade back and forth, we can. If things get as bad as what it could, don't think a cross country trip, at least by vehicle, would be a good idea. Do as you please, but a running car/truck, makes a dandy target. Plus, I don't think the highways would be open for any lenght of distance. Could be, but I'm not going to be the one to find out differently.
Trying to think of any different situation that might arise, still come back holding tight. Food,water,companionship, all within walking distance. gypsyman

[mcwoodduck]

I read, and follow the idea, that anything can be bartered, I can also use myself. I'm planning on the fact I have friends and relatives close by. If we need to trade back and forth, we can. If things get as bad as what it could, don't think a cross country trip, at least by vehicle, would be a good idea. Do as you please, but a running car/truck, makes a dandy target. Plus, I don't think the highways would be open for any lenght of distance. Could be, but I'm not going to be the one to find out differently.
Trying to think of any different situation that might arise, still come back holding tight. Food,water,companionship, all within walking distance. gypsyman

If it got bad enough that I needed to go back to the east coast then I would most likely be on foot after the gas in the truck crapped out.
Also have a hiking water filter with extra filters.  Figure it is a good 150 investment.

[Victor3]

I read, and follow the idea, that anything can be bartered, I can also use myself. I'm planning on the fact I have friends and relatives close by. If we need to trade back and forth, we can. If things get as bad as what it could, don't think a cross country trip, at least by vehicle, would be a good idea. Do as you please, but a running car/truck, makes a dandy target. Plus, I don't think the highways would be open for any lenght of distance. Could be, but I'm not going to be the one to find out differently.
Trying to think of any different situation that might arise, still come back holding tight. Food,water,companionship, all within walking distance. gypsyman

 A survival-type guy I work with lives ~30 miles away from work. He drives a lifted, early 80's Ford crew cab long bed diesel pickup loaded with fuel and survival stuff in to work every day even though he also has two cars. He regularly dumps money into keeping the thing alive even though it's a rust bucket with nearly 200K miles on it. His plan, if he can't get home for some reason, is to drive (through ~60 miles of city streets and freeways) into the wilderness. I told him he should put a bicycle in the back because that may be the only thing he'll be driving very far in a disaster, regardless of the handy winch and four wheel drive.

 When I worked 23 miles away I figured if something happened I'd leave the car, wait for dark and hoof it home while trying to avoid contact with anybody.

[Victor3]

I think everyone in a city will as time goes on get more and more desperate as resources are consumed and families may start looting together.
and the longer the problem lasts the more desperate people will get. 

 That may be, but I think a key point will be what kind of people you live amongst. Reading about war, disasters, etc. in different parts of the world it appears that some tend to pull together to help eachother in hard times while others cause chaos, depending somewhat upon various traits of the population involved.

 For instance, I live in a city with a low crime rate where most folks work for a living, own their homes, are responsible citizens and raise their kids in the hope that they will also be productive adults.

 On the other hand, 20 miles from where I live there's a city where the crime rate is high, many folks are living on government handouts in HUD housing, and over 70% of the kids don't graduate from high school.

 I think my city will fare better than the other during a disaster.

[myronman3]

if we use katrina  and the red river flooding as examples, you are right on the money.

That may be, but I think a key point will be what kind of people you live amongst. Reading about war, disasters, etc. in different parts of the world it appears that some tend to pull together to help eachother in hard times while others cause chaos, depending somewhat upon various traits of the population involved.

 For instance, I live in a city with a low crime rate where most folks work for a living, own their homes, are responsible citizens and raise their kids in the hope that they will also be productive adults.

 On the other hand, 20 miles from where I live there's a city where the crime rate is high, many folks are living on government handouts in HUD housing, and over 70% of the kids don't graduate from high school.

 I think my city will fare better than the other during a disaster.

during katrina, the people that do for themselves did, and got out of dodge.  it was the ones that sat around on their butts waiting for someone else to help them that paid the price.  i think alot of the dead weight of society will be too damn clueless to do much of anything other than stay where they are and die.  sure, there will be some that go a looting but how long will they last?   
   then you take the red river flooding, and you see a communtiy pull together and roll up their sleeves to get to it.     what a contrast.   different communities will definately handle things differently. 

[SHOOTALL]

Time is the factor that will decide many peoples outcome. Some will have enough stuff on hand to go a while others will not . Do you share ? Will they attack you ? Who knows ? GB may be right in time . If you open to barter will you draw fire ? How much do you let go ?
 Take a knife , how long will it last ? as you sharpen it it goes away like most things . So how many do you need ? In a time when food is hard to get and you lose no weight as others starve will others notice ? Will they attack ?
A man with a rifle and 30 round mags may be no match for a hundred attackers . How much will you have to share to have help holding onto what you have ?
In the end pooling stuff may be the best route .

[Victor3]

In the end pooling stuff may be the best route .

 I think bartering between (hopefully) trustworthy friends and neighbors in a tight-knit community might be considered as pooling.

 If I happened to have stuff to trade after some disaster struck I'd try not to make it obvious. If someone came to me asking if I had some rice to trade for a can of sardines I'd say, "I think I have some left. Wait here and I'll check." Then come back with a ziplock bag full, not the 20# sack.

 But as you allude to Shootall, even a policy of "stealth wealth" may only be of use for a little while if everyone for miles around can detect the aroma of Hormel chili wafting out of your windows every day. Prolly best to forget about them alcohol stoves I spoke of and just eat it cold. 

[teamnelson]

fellas, do y'all have city sewer? what's your plan when it fails. Septic? when was the last time you had it serviced. What about trash, how're you gonna get rid of it? I say all this because of Shootalls comment ... smell travels far when industry stops. There won't be the mask of the normal days business laying over everything, and waste/trash disposal will cease. So yeah, TP is great, but what do you do with it afterwards if there's nowhere to flush it? Burn it? That'll smell pretty.

Here's a useful barter item: answer the question, how do we get rid of waste without attracting attention? Straddle trench & lye? I seriously would like to know how, as that might be a great way to endear yourself to a community, along with a water filter, and the means to make fire.

[Victor3]

 Oh crap. Good question. You'd need a lot of cooperation from everyone to deal with waste effectively.

 I was thinking I'd build an outhouse in the backyard and maybe make lye if enough ash and water were available. Encouraging others to build outhouses, collecting their ashes and producing lye for them might be a good barter thing.

 Storms drains wouldn't be a good way to dispose of sewage but I'm sure that's what many will use. That'll be lovely after they clog up and we get a good rain. Talk about the 'defication contacting the oscillation.' Even under normal conditions they have to dig tons of debris out of our storm drains every summer in order to keep them operable during winter. Glad I've got a surfboard.

 Since we have a park nearby, maybe we could take over a section to use as a dump for trash and dig a pit for sewage disposal.

[bilmac]

Put human wastes in storm drains and it ends up in natural waterways. Look out for massive colorea outbreaks. Better study up on TNs sand filter.

Our complex civilization insulates us from so many of the processes of natural life. Those folks living in mud huts in Africa will fare much better than us in a global meltdown.

[AtlLaw]

You'd need a lot of cooperation from everyone to deal with waste (or insert your particular concern here) effectively.

   Ya, right, sure...  man will always cooperate for the common good... I believe that...    and the toof fairy, santi claws, democrats will lay down with republicans... 

 

[Graybeard]

I believe we have two totally separate groups of thought going on here as to what a "disaster consists of in the context of this discussion. One group is clearly looking at the days many of us see coming when there is a total break down of society and it ain't coming back soon likely not in our life times.

The other group is looking at things like Katrina or other natural disaster affecting only a relatively small area and where outside help is on the way it's merely a matter of how long it takes to get it organized and to you. Personally I just don't see this situation as being one where you need to have barter items as it's just too short term to really make that necessary. Just take care of you and yours and wait on help to arrive.

When I discuss these situations I'm not talking a short term natural disaster but rather a situation where society as we know it has ended a real shore nuff TEOTWAWKI situation where help is NOT coming PERIOD and you are on your own for the rest of your life unless you happen to be able to come in contact with someone else you can team up with. I'm really talking about a situation worse than Jericho the TV serious and more in line with the current series on BBCA called Survivors. IF you are watching the BBCA show I think it's fairly realistic about the kinda folks you'll run into. I think it's really silly in the mistakes the hero group makes as they bumble along and always seem to come out smelling like a rose no matter how much fecal matter they step into.

Folks always wanna talk about running away in such but think on that a wee bit. Where the hell ya gonna run to? Nearly every place in this country is fairly highly populated except the far west and Alaska and both are rather harsh places for the uninitiated to survive in. If you don't live close you're not gonna get to either anyway.

Now if you live in a big city and I do mean a BIG CITY you are just about SOL in my opinion if caught there when it all comes down. If you can't hunker in place for at least a month or two and defend what you have I think your chances of living to be three months older than you were when it hit are near zero. If you can then most will have died or be too sick and weak to be a serious obstacle to your leaving by then but again where are you going?

I'm not saying I'll be around after three months either but I'm realistic enough to know I have no where to go and will be better trying to defend what we have here. I would expect the boys and their families will likely come here as the distance for that is fairly short and it's a better place to hold up than either of them have.

We're on a septic system and yes it was cleaned out only a short time ago and was in good shape at that time even tho it had been operating for about 17-18 years since it was set up. I'm not too concerned about that aspect. Water however is gonna be a whole nother matter and likely the real sticky point for all after society makes a total collapse as the water ain't gonna flow long afterward. I do have a pond and it maintains enough water year round it could be brought to the house to flush commodes but isn't drinking water tho in a pinch I guess could be made do. Catching water from rain to drink isn't a real solution tho is a partial one I suppose.

Defending against the inevitable invaders who will come to where ever you are to take whatever you have is another tough one to get past. For sure my home isn't bullet proof and can't be made such realistically. Still I suspect most of the roving bands of bad guys aren't gonna be that well armed and there is not much cover for them to use to protect their hides when the shooting starts. I figure most will figure a softer target is more their style. We're just far enough from any decent size town to not have that as a likely problem once the gas in vehicles is gone and they are walking.

I believe most folks just aren't yet ready to accept that what we have as a society world wide for the most part now is likely to be gone one of these days in our life times to be replaced with a survive or die on your own type of existence.

[AtlLaw]

+1   

Defending against the inevitable invaders who will come to where ever you are to take whatever you have is another tough one to get past.

This will happen early on.

most of the roving bands of bad guys aren't gonna be that well armed and there is not much cover for them to use to protect their hides when the shooting starts. I figure most will figure a softer target is more their style.

These will be the current "gangsta's."  They will go almost as fast as the sheeple who will be dialing 911 even as they expire... 

What will emerge on top are the "Professionals."  You won't be able to avoid them.  They will come for you when ever they want to.  Remember Ruby Ridge...

most folks just aren't yet ready to accept that what we have as a society world wide for the most part now is likely to be gone one of these days in our life times to be replaced with a survive or die on your own type of existence.

[teamnelson]

Y'all with property who plan to hole up may want to bone up on FORCEPRO as published by USMC Gunners (not Gunnys) whose job is to critique and improve positions in Iraq and Afghanistan. Get creative, clear fields of fire, plant readily identifiable trees at your 50, 100 range markers and so forth. Sandbag, sandbag, sandbag. Past 300, channel ... plant thorny stuff in all the hard to see places so they're forced onto open ground. Walk your perimeter and ask yourself, how would I attack this? Then execute a plan to defend from that. Now do it again. Check access to your life lines ... power, water ... and harden those points.

Lost a guy in Haqlaniyah through a <1" gap between ballistic glass panels. He shifted his stance exposing the throat gap in his PPE. One shot with a Mauser variant from inside 200 yds. Think about where you'd go prone inside 500 yds of your house and use your scope to identify gaps in your defense. Better you than ...

If you plan to hole up, this is more important than stockpiling.

[Victor3]

You'd need a lot of cooperation from everyone to deal with waste (or insert your particular concern here) effectively.

   Ya, right, sure...  man will always cooperate for the common good... I believe that...    and the toof fairy, santi claws, democrats will lay down with republicans... 

 

 Don't you have block parties and stuff where you live? We do. Joe cooks the burgers, Judy makes the salad and Jenny brings a pie.

 Works out just dandy. 

[thejanitor]

Water however is gonna be a whole nother matter and likely the real sticky point for all after society makes a total collapse as the water ain't gonna flow long afterward. I do have a pond and it maintains enough water year round it could be brought to the house to flush commodes but isn't drinking water tho in a pinch I guess could be made do. Catching water from rain to drink isn't a real solution tho is a partial one I suppose.

Thats what I was thinking GB, In the city what could you do to get water through the city system? Would it be usable or without all the components working would it be safe at all? Tarps & barrels for rain water? Some people have shallow wells you could actually buy a pitcher pump and adapt or have the parts ready to adapt it. But many of us now have deep wells you can't access the water in. So although I am in the country, the well will not be working.We do have many lakes around but the water would need a quality filter or some serious boiling AND filtering. But in many places the water problem is chemicals in the water, boiling won't help that. So without water, Many things wouldn't matter much.
For the first aid kit- many things would have an experation date, we use Essential oils for many of these needs. If you know what your buying they have no added carrier or fatty oils to go rancid and kept in a dark mid temp area DO NOT EXPIRE. So know what kind your buying and they will last indefinetly in your cache. (get an Essential oils desk reference book off AMAZON and you will be set) This keeps you from having to check dates- And you can use them on Family or pets. I could go on, but this was supposed to be a reply about the water issue.... PM me if you need anything looked up in the reference book, its cool to see what all can be used for things. - Brent

[Couger]

Some great posts and ideas shared!

Now if I can just win the lottery!  And build Club Retreat in the secluded acreage I have spotted in Wyoming. 





A guy can "dream" can't he?   

I started collecting the "Survivalist" series of books by Jerry Ahern, and he shares many great ideas too, but that character is located in Georgia.

[bilmac]

Lehmans.com has a well bucket. From the picture it is long and skinney so it is designed to be lowered in most wells on a rope. I suppose it fills from the bottom through a valve.

I bought a 1400 gallon plastic cistern for my place. I will initially fill it with water from town this summer. That will be chlorinated and should take care of any  bugs that may be in the tank. If we should have to move out there I will build a slow sand filter. It will take a couple of weeks for it to develop a biological layer to be and effective water purifier. Then I will run surface water and rain water through it to keep the cistern topped off.

Google slow sand filter to find out about the filter. It is a lot more complicated than a bucket of sand, it depends on a biological layer to clean whatever pathogens out of the water you run through it. But it is low tech, anyone can build it and operate it with locally available stuff. You can't use just any plastic tank for a cistern if you plan to bury it. Typical tanks would crush from the pressure of the backfill. Plastic septic tanks are designed for burial. I suppose a new septic tank would work as a cistern, I bought one on the net designed specifically as a cistern.

[Victor3]

I believe we have two totally separate groups of thought going on here as to what a "disaster consists of in the context of this discussion. One group is clearly looking at the days many of us see coming when there is a total break down of society and it ain't coming back soon likely not in our life times.

The other group is looking at things like Katrina or other natural disaster affecting only a relatively small area and where outside help is on the way it's merely a matter of how long it takes to get it organized and to you. Personally I just don't see this situation as being one where you need to have barter items as it's just too short term to really make that necessary. Just take care of you and yours and wait on help to arrive.

I believe most folks just aren't yet ready to accept that what we have as a society world wide for the most part now is likely to be gone one of these days in our life times to be replaced with a survive or die on your own type of existence.

 I'm thinking about a possibly prolonged, widespread but not necessarily permanent disaster(s). Multiple coordinated (maybe nuclear) terrorist attacks, power grids going down or petroleum distribution suddenly cut off are all possibilities today. If more than one were to happen simultaneously we could be in deep doo-doo for quite a while.

 I know that in my personal situation, I can't reasonably prepare for and likely will not survive long after any 'total breakdown' or giant meteor strike, etc. The best preparations would probably only soften the blow temporarily in those cases. However, what's out there on the immediate horizon might not be the EOTWAWKI.

 I look at it this way; I'm gonna die someday. Maybe just me and a few others next year, maybe me and a few billion five years from now (Either way, I won't be any less dead). However, even under normal conditions I do my best to forestall my death and that of my family and neighbors for as long as possible. Death may come early for many during some disaster but I'd like to be prepared to delay that eventuality for those close to me.

 It wouldn't be practical for me to build a bomb shelter in Montana simply because I believe the end might be around the corner. But for not much money, time and self-education I can prepare for maybe a year of bad times under some circumstances in the hope that things will improve. If they don't, what have I lost?

[SHOOTALL]

Bilmac in a pinch get some  1 inch pvc pipe and a check valve . Couple the pipe together add the check valve . Make a u bend with 90's on the top . Lower into well and move up and down . Water will come out the pipe . This is not ideal or useful on really deep wells but it works

[Forestgnome]

Jack Daniels, coffee, toilet paper.

[teddy12b]

I'm with GB on this one.  I'm not nearly as worried about natural disasters as I am man made disasters.  If you want to gain a better understanding of how to prepare read the book "One Second After" and it'll open your eyes.  All your loving neighbors won't be so loving when you're the only ones with food & water. 

[schoolmaster]

I don't believe bartering away ammo would be a good idea. It might come back at you.

[teddy12b]

I don't believe bartering away ammo would be a good idea. It might come back at you.

I think bartering with ammo would only be done with those people who can be especially trusted.  No way would I do that with strangers.

[mcwoodduck]

I don't believe bartering away ammo would be a good idea. It might come back at you.

I think bartering with ammo would only be done with those people who can be especially trusted.  No way would I do that with strangers.

but you don't know what those people you trust will do with it.
How many times have you sold something to a freind at a good price so they would have one after complaining that they don't have it,  only to have them resell it and make $.
So as your friends and neighbors come for ammo they may already have someone unsavory to sell it to for what they want or need.