Author Topic: Might have messed up my 92 44mag :( (Read 1780 times)

teddy12b · « **on:** April 14, 2010, 04:33:18 AM »

Well,
Last weekend I took my Puma 92 24" 44mag out to the range. I was all excited because I just had a gunsmith put on a new rear ladder sight. I set up my targets and at 50 yards I about 1' high and 3 - 4 inches to the right. Agghhhhh! Tell me this can be fixed!! I know the horizontal adustment isn't a big deal, but shooting a foot high is a huge issue. My rifle has the shorter stubby front sight so I'm pretty sure that I'll need to replace that with the taller one. If the taller front sight post doesn't make up at least half of that foot being off I don't know what else to do. It's not like there's a whole lot to file off of the rear sight either.
I know this problem can be fixed, but beyond a new front sight post I don't know what else to do. This simple project just got a lot more complicated.

Rangr44 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 14, 2010, 05:46:37 AM »

Filing on a rear sight blade is the wrong way to go - It's a mistaken oversimplification of the solution.

FWIW, any huge elevation correction, like that, should be made to the front sight only - after shooting the rifle at 100yds with the rear sight in the middle of it's elevation adjustment range.

The reason for this procedure is twofold:

1) The error @ 100yds will allow the application of one of several front sight height calculators/calculations, all of which formulae are based on the POI error at that distance.

( There are Sight Height Calculators available online @ both http://www.skinnersights.com/front_sights_5.html and http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/cid=365/k=/t=0/guntech/ )

2) The midway positioning of the rear sight's elevation adjustment will allow a wider range of adjustment (+/-) after the proper front sight is installed/zeroed.

All of the above is predicated upon the "given", that a shooter is holding a proper sight picture - with the top of the front sight even with the top of the rear sight's smallest notch.

.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #2 on:** April 14, 2010, 07:40:02 AM »

No problemo Teddy! That front sight on the 92 is short and you won't have a problem getting a taller one. Just listen to what Rangr44 said!

Just yesterday I ordered a Marbel's front sight with an ivory bead to go with the tang sight I put on my 92 44 Mag.

Harry Snippe · « **Reply #3 on:** April 15, 2010, 09:41:19 AM »

It seems that gun shops " Fail " to inform you that you need to install a taller front site ,when installing a peep or a different rear site .
You would think then , some one would then make note on the package of the new rear site that a different height of front site may also be required .
I had a peep installed on My Marlin. then went back after going to the range , could not dial in , so looked on the Web, got the info there, and went back to the shop with the info and part # . He looked at me as if there was a wart growing on my nose , and I am annoyed since "he" should have as a gunsmith been in "the know".
Then too !! How many 45/70's came from Marlin with the wrong front site . They knew about it and every one was trying to correct the rear site . You see most guns bought got a scope so they needed then only to correct the few that were returned .
So my friend you did not mess up your 92 44 Mag , it is rather the guy who installed the new site not having done his homework .

teddy12b · « **Reply #4 on:** April 15, 2010, 10:09:56 AM »

Well even with the factory rear sight I had to use a different sight picture when using this rifle. I had to aim right below where I wanted to hit instead of aiming right on it. To be fair, some rifles are setup like that. The marlins aren't and you got hosed. I'm just afraid that my rifle is going to become a much larger project than I had originally expected.

Hanzerik · « **Reply #5 on:** April 15, 2010, 01:43:54 PM »

Sights are pretty cheap and easy to install. I replaced front and rear sights on both of my Puma .44s myself. I would suggest going with a taller front post made by Marble Arms, they only cost around $9.00 from Brownells. You measure the sight from the bottom of the base to the top of the blade, which if I remember correctly on my Short Rifle the factory sight was .375", and on my 16" carbine was .400". I went with a .450" tall front sight on the carbine, and stayed at .375" on the Short Rifle because I was using a Tang Sight with it. I may end up getting a .500" tall front sight for the carbine because like you I am still shooting a little high at 100 yards, but not by much. It is ok to go with a too tall front sight because then you can just adjust the rear.

mannyrock · « **Reply #6 on:** April 16, 2010, 07:54:37 AM »

Teddy,

I think that due to anger, you may be overreacting here. A new front sight is pretty cheap, and is very easy to install. It is about the simplest project that you could ever do on a rifle. Most folks would not even call it a project.

Don't file that rear sight, or you will have a project. :-)

Get a Brownell's catalogue, call them up, get the gun-tech guy on the phone, tell him exactly which peep site you have, and he will tell you the exact front sight you need. You will receive it by mail in about 5 days.

Hope things work out for you.

Best,

Mannyrock

277284 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 16, 2010, 07:50:47 PM »

On my stock LSI Puma 44 with 20" barell I put on a Marbles .500 hight front sight with 1/16" gold bead cause it was printing 8" high at 25 yds. Now it is right on zero in the middle of adjustment, and pin point accurate with that 1/16 bead.

teddy12b · « **Reply #8 on:** April 17, 2010, 04:37:05 AM »

I called the gunsmith yesterday and we talked about a new front sight. I'll be dropping it off to him next week and he'll put on a new front sight. I figured that he could get the tallest front sight possible and I could always file it down at the range to zero it.

Harry Snippe · « **Reply #9 on:** April 19, 2010, 06:27:03 PM »

Your smith should be able to install the right front site . There is charts for that sort of thing .

teddy12b · « **Reply #10 on:** April 20, 2010, 02:59:07 AM »

Well, it turns out the putting in a new front sight isn't going to be that simple. There isn't just a regular piece of steel front sight post replacement like what's already in there just taller. The replacements are made by marbles and there is brass bead sight, white dot sight, or a hiviz sight. I'm leaning towards the tallest white dot sight I can find.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #11 on:** April 20, 2010, 06:39:56 AM »

I got my Marble's front sight and tang sight screw set for my M92 a few days ago. Maybe I'll have time to put them on today. $:-\$

I got the same size (height) front sight but fitted with the 1/16" Ivory bead. I like those ivory beads. Used one last year on my 45 Colt M73 to take a nice 6 pt. right at dark and could still see the bead against the deer!

Dee has used a white line post for years and does real good with them! They are pretty scarce though and I can't remember the name of the company that makes them.

Same guy, well he got bought out be a big company a while back, that makes the "Ghost Ring" receiver sight. $:-\$

Basicguy · « **Reply #12 on:** April 20, 2010, 06:52:28 AM »

I had a similar problem with an 1899 swiss rifle that had been converted to a 308 carbine.

Shot great groups a foot high at 40 feet. The previous owner had tried filing the rear sight down but it was down so that the receiver was in the way.

I couldn't locate a replacement front site so I carefully masked off the barrel and mig welded steel onto the front site post. I also soldered a brass spoke nipple onto the rear site V. I filed the front post down until it prints right at point of aim.

good luck.

Rangr44 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 20, 2010, 08:54:37 AM »

[There isn't just a regular piece of steel front sight post replacement like what's already in there just taller.]

That's not quite the case.

Both XS Sights and Dr.Tim Skinner will make you a plain post front sight blade as tall as the Empire State building if you want, for about $15 - but the white stripe on the face of the XS will need blackening, a real chore.

All that's needed is to talk to one of them about the height needed ILO assuming.

Both companies have delivered sights to my door in a few days.

.

teddy12b · « **Reply #14 on:** April 20, 2010, 09:18:14 AM »

Great Information!! I really like the idea of a really tall front sight that I could fiel down to make it match my rifles sight just perfectly. I just need to figure out if that tall front sight for a marlin will fit into a puma 92.

Rangr44 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 20, 2010, 04:52:42 PM »

There's nothing to "figure out", since many,many before you have done it.

While US rifle dovetails, and most foreign (but not all), have been long standardized at the same 3/8" width/size that every aftermarket sight is made, Rossi's run hot/cold - the sights will fit a Rossi M92, depending upon if it has a standard dovetail or not.

If it does (like my two), then the sight will generally slide right in with minor fitting.

If it doesn't, then the sight dovetail will either need filing down to fit an undersize barrel dovetail (rare), or thickened via inserting a BCS (beer can shim) in the oversize dovetail slot.

Soooooooo, order the sight of your choice, and have at it !

.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #16 on:** April 20, 2010, 05:17:18 PM »

Hey Teddy!
Put the marble's front sight on tonight along with the second screw for the tang sight. No problem. I then drifted out the rear iron sight. Again no problem!

Not having the fold down rear sight, still on backorder, and hating open dovetails, I grabbed my Marlin 30TK outa the safe. It was missing a rear sight when I bought it and I had hammered in a blank. So, I hammered out the blank and hammered in the M92 rear sight!

It was a little tight $:-\$ but looks like it will be fine!

Then I took the blank to the M92. It slid in from the right and right out the left! A little loose...

Well, a few whacks to the dovetail from said hammer cured that problem!

Can't wait to get it to the range! It'll be the first rifle I hunt with this year!

Have no fear pal, it'll work! Next to high grade explosives, they ain't much a hammer won't cure!

teddy12b · « **Reply #17 on:** April 21, 2010, 04:44:12 AM »

Quote from: Rangr44 on April 20, 2010, 08:54:37 AM

[There isn't just a regular piece of steel front sight post replacement like what's already in there just taller.]

I like the tall sight in this picture all the way to the right. Is this pretty much just a taller version of what I already have? If that's the case, that'd work like a charm.

Per this website: http://www.skinnersights.com/front_sights_5.html would I want the blued steel 1/2" wide model to get the highest front sight post that would fit on the puma? Seems like it'd be a little wide, but that can be fixed pretty easily. Is that the one I need?

Rangr44 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 21, 2010, 07:17:07 AM »

Yes - A wide base to fit a direct mounting in a barrel, and .650" high, which is waaaay higher than needed.

Please read and/or print out that entire web page, since it has both sight blade fitting instructions AND how to calculate the correct front sight height.

"The barrel mounted sight is .650".
This size will give you plenty of height for any Marlin (read: Puma/Rossi or any rifle).
You can order a specific height if you wish at no extra charge.

The front sight is made with a slightly oversize dovetail.
It will be necessary to use a small triangular file to fit it to the dovetail slot.
This is a 10 minute job if you follow the directions below.

Fitting a front sight

Remove the front sight from the rifle using a brass punch and a mallet. Drift the sight from right to left

Hold the new sight to the left side of the slot and try to start the sight.
If it will start then drift it into center position using the brass punch and mallet.
If you cannot start it by hand, you will need to use a small triangular file to remove some metal.
Very little filing will be necessary.
File a couple of strokes then check.
File only on the sloped side of the dovetail and only file on one of the two surfaces.
The dovetail on the sight is made slightly oversize due to variations in width of the dovetail slot on the gun.
The goal is a firm friction fit that cannot be moved by hand, but can be moved with gentle taps of a punch and mallet"

.

teddy12b · « **Reply #19 on:** April 21, 2010, 09:37:49 AM »

Well, I ordered the blued 1/2" front sight. Shipped to my door was $25. Not too bad all things considered. Since I don't know the exact height of the new rear sight I wanted the tallest front sight post I could get. If this works I'll be able to get that rifle up and running at distance in no time.

teddy12b · « **Reply #20 on:** April 29, 2010, 03:25:52 AM »

**Update**

The new front sight came in. It has been installed on the rifle and fit perfectly without any gunsmithing required. The new front sight post is so tall. I think I'm going to go from shooting a foot high to shooting a foot low. It's going to work out perfectly because I'm going to be able to more than enough to file the new front to zero the rifle. That $25 skinner sight made all the difference in the world and was worth every penny.

No I just have to decide whether to zero at 50 yards or 100. It's a nice problem to have,

I'll let you all know how the range work goes.

Thanks for all the help guys. I really appreciate it!

AtlLaw · « **Reply #21 on:** April 29, 2010, 07:48:14 AM »

Well there you go Teddy!

And you had fun doing it!

Be sure to let us know how the sighting in went. I replaced the front sight on my 92 but, as you know, used one the same height as the original. Can't wait to sight that one in!

teddy12b · « **Reply #22 on:** April 29, 2010, 08:23:52 AM »

Well, I think it's happening this weekend. I'm going to be able to make a quick trip to the range and I'll be able to get the front sight post just right, but I really want to try out that flip up ladder sight. I can't even describe who happy I'd be to start reaching out with a 44 mag and iron sights. It's mostly just for grins, but I want to be able to hit a target at 300 yards with my new rifle just to say I can. I think there's enough adjustment in the ladder sight that it shouldn't be much of a problem to reach out there quite a ways.

The longest shot I could take where I hunt is 200 yards so I don't techically need anything more than that, but I have every intention getting everything out of this rifle that I possibly can. I'll post pictures when I report on how it goes.

teddy12b · « **Reply #23 on:** May 17, 2010, 07:49:54 PM »

I finally got out to the range with the rifle (and a file for the front sight). I had to spend some quality time with the file getting the front sight height just right, and I am just an inch or so low at 50 yards now. So once I get the front sight all filed to just the right height and run out of ammo I start to notice that it's got some side to side wiggle. I've been trying to pay special attention to that since the sight went in so easy and I'm glad I did. Now I have to rezero the windage adjustment and figure out how to secure the front sight. I'm not real sure on how I'll do that yet and I'm open to suggestions. Maybe I'll just take a hammer & punch to crimp it in there, or just a dab of jb weld where I can around the front sight post. I don't want to get it all banged up or goofy looking, but I do need that front sight to stay put.

Overall, I'm very happy with this project and that ladder sight has got a lot of adjustment built into it for long range shooting. Once I get this final part of the project done, this rifle will be a sweet deer gun.