Help please with T/C failure to fire.

[Ahlosojoe]

I purchased a used (like new) contender barrel for my .22 hornet.  It will not fire any of my full length resized reloads which I have had no problems with with other guns. It will fire new ammo and reloads that I have loaded with the once fired new brass if I do not resize it....it will not fire the once fired brass if it is full length resized. Suggestions please. Help will be greatly appreciated very frustrating. Thanks, Joe

[okieshooter]

I am far from an expert (actually I am prolly pretty dumb) but I figure you will hear about headspacing and to neck size only.

[Grumulkin]

1.  If it will fire new ammo and not reloaded ammo, then there is something wrong with the sizing of the reloaded brass.  It could be the brass isn't being sized quite enough.  If you are crimping (which isn't necessary or even beneficial), you could be putting a slight wrinkle in the brass which could prevent proper chambering.  Since a 22 Hornet is a rimmed cartridge, headspace is not an issue.

2.  I'm a bit confused.  You say "once fired new brass if I do not resize it."  Firstly, if it's once fired, it isn't new.  Secondly, if it's once fired, I would think you would HAVE to resize it in order to get it to hold a bullet.

3.  Primers too hard for the hammer to touch of can cause a failure to fire.  CCI primers would be most likely to cause this.

A few of other questions:

1.  Are you able to close the action fairly easily?

2.  When you try to fire, do you get any indentation in the primer?

3.  Are you able to pull the hammer back to the firing position?  If not, try closing the action a bit more briskly.

4.  Is this the older style Contender or the G2?

[southernutah]

is the ammo that won't fire flush with the  barrel chamber or is it recessed down in.

[Ahlosojoe]

Sorry I have been slow getting back but had a family emergency

Grumulkin I will answer yourquestions. 
                                                                                                                                                    1. I am full length resizing so I don't know how to do any more. No crimping.

   2. Sorry my mistake. I mean it is factory loaded ammo that after fired the brass is loaded without sizing. I deprime and prime just to see if it will fire. It will fire the primer.

   3. Using Federal primers.

Other questions.

1. Action closes like it should.

2. No indent in primer.

3. Hammer cocks as should.

4. Not G2 older model.

Thank you for your consideration. I appreciate you taking the time to held. Joe   

[Ahlosojoe]

southernutah, the brass is flush with the barrel chamber. Joe

[Ahlosojoe]

Hey Okieshooter, As one Okie to another I also have a lot to learn. Thanks, Joe

[skarke]

Take the barrel off.  Place a resized cartridge in the chamber.  Is it falling below flush?

You can use a micrometer to help headspace your cartridges, but the hornet should headspace on the rim.

Is this an aftermarket barrel?

Federal primers are soft, ccis are hard.

I'd venture to guess that it is a headspace problem, but without seeing your rig, I'm speculating.

[Keith L]

I don't buy a headspace problem if it fires new and once fired not resized brass like the OP says.  It sounds to me like a sizing problem, but if it fits in the chamber fully and is flush like you say then I am at a loss to say what the problem is.

[okieshooter]

You might throw this in the reloading forum and get a solution quicker. Seems resizing is letting the shell fall further in somehow???

[Dezynco]

Sounds like you need to bring the sizing die on down.  The shoulder of the case may not be far enough back to allow the rim to seat properly.  If the action does not snap shut (because the rim is protruding above the barrel), you may get a weak hammer blow.

Be sure that you are firmly seating the primers such that there is no chance of the primer driving forward under the hammer blow.

Try your batch of primers in a different firearm to be sure that they function as they should.  It's remotely possible that you got some bad primers.

Make sure the Center Fire/Rim Fire selector is not flopping back and forth.

Check for a broken firing pin.

Pure speculation at best.

[southernutah]

chean the firing pin assembly. may be dirty and holding pin back

[wiley]

Cocking attachments on the hammer can cause FTF problems, too.
Wiley

[Grumulkin]

Since rimmed cartridges headspace on the rim, it shouldn't matter how much you resize a rimmed cartridge since it should headspace on the rim rather than the shoulder but apparently in your gun that isn't the case.  If you size your cases a little less (i.e., don't bump the shoulder back) your brass should work fine.  Incrementally screw your die in while resizing a case; the right size is where the action just barely closes or just a titch more.

There is another possible cause of your problem.  If the gun has been fired with a hot load and had a pierced primer, the tip of the firing pin can be burned off (i.e., shortened).  Another thing that can shorten a firing pin with a hot load without a pierced primer is that the action springs a little and the firing pin is caught in the firing pin hole.  When the action is opened, and some force will be needed, the tip of the firing pin will be sheared off.  The solution to both of these latter problems is to replace the firing pin which is fairly easy.

[okieshooter]

There is another possible cause of your problem.  If the gun has been fired with a hot load and had a pierced primer, the tip of the firing pin can be burned off (i.e., shortened).  Another thing that can shorten a firing pin with a hot load without a pierced primer is that the action springs a little and the firing pin is caught in the firing pin hole.  When the action is opened, and some force will be needed, the tip of the firing pin will be sheared off.  The solution to both of these latter problems is to replace the firing pin which is fairly easy.

My Encore, with both of my barrels, is hard to open after firing. I have not shot reloads but this still makes sense. It still fires but the firing pin could be getting in the way and eventually sheared off. I am making a mental note to check this, now if I just knew how to check it?? Can I dry fire it ONCE and see if the fire pin stays out and maybe hard to push back in??

[PA-Joe]

Is it possible that the sizing die is crushing the rim? If you crush the rim then it will not head space correctly. Try measuring the thickness of the rims on the reloaded cases and compare to the new ones.

[Grumulkin]

You should never dry fire an Encore or Contender as that can damage the spring on the firing pin.  In any case, dry firing it won't tell you what you need to know.  What happens is that the firing pin indents the primer, the action springs a little and holds the firing pin in the primer which makes the action hard to open.  This won't happen when dry firing.

An action being hard to open is one of the signs of excess pressure in Encores and Contenders.  It can be because the firing pin is caught or, more commonly, from case expansion in the chamber.  Slightly sticky extraction is common in Encores and Contenders and doesn't mean the pressure is excessive but frankly hard extraction isn't normal.  A dirty chamber could also cause difficult extraction.  I would suggest trying some different cartridge brands to see if it still happens.

As for the rim of the case being compressed during the resizing operation; I don't think so.  The rim is held in the shell holder which protects it and I see no way it could be compressed enough to cause a headspace problem.

[sylvania53]

you said no indent in primer when full length resized. back off your sizing die a full turn and size a case. put in a primer and see if it even chambers.if it does try to fire. if it closes hard turn die in 1/8 turn and try to resize again.

[skarke]

Remember, changing the amount of resizing on a case that headspaces on the rim might fix the symptom, but doing so might not address the larger problem.
Specifically, rimmed cases should never fall so far into a chamber that the firing pin doesn't strike the primer, end of story.  If it is doing so, then the chamber is cut wrong (rim allowed to fall too deep).

That is why I asked whether this is an aftermarket barrel.

From what you describe, try to measure the depth of the chamber where it accepts the rim.  If it is appreciably deeper than the thickness of the cartridge rim, you have identified your problem, and your barrel is faulty, and dangerous.  Return it.

[Ahlosojoe]

Thanks to all of you that stayed with me on this problem. I very much appreciate your suggestions but I give up! I am going to send it back to T/C and see if they are any smarter than we are. A special thanks to Grumulkin for his effort. We tried.