what's really out there?

[mmt7714]

Well,
I have been interested in the unknown or cryptozoology basically all of my life. I have always enjoyed reading about possible unkown creatures, the paranormal, and the such. At this point, as far as unkown creatures go, I have pretty much formed my own opinions as to which ones I believe could exist or might exist and which ones are probably fictitious. My question is which ones do all of you feel could or might legitimately exist and which ones don't and why?

[mcwoodduck]

Loch Ness - Think Could be a dinosaur that has lived some how.
Big foot and the Yetti - same critter different parts of the globe.  Normaly i would say it was a mis itentified aminal like a bear or other animal.  But - Teddy Rosevelt said he lived with a family of them.  So not sure.  he was a politician after all and they do not always tell the truth.
If he were a Democrat then we would know he was lying but as a Republican - not sure and will give him the benefit of the doubt and say possible that in the millions and millions of acers of wild country in the US having an animal that has not been offically discovered is possible but not probable..
Chupro cabris- I think is a Coyote.  Or other mis identified Preditor.

[Victor3]

 We're finding "What's really out there" all the time.

 In 1938, an "extinct" fish was caught...

http://www.dinofish.com/

 Not as dramatic as capturing a T-rex in the Amazon, but why wouldn't it be? It's still a living fossil.

 A bunch of new mammal species (let alone reptiles, plants etc.) have been discovered recently...

http://scienceblogs.com/tetrapodzoology/2009/03/408_post-1993_mammal_species.php

 With millions of scantly explored square miles of jungle-obscured and underwater area on the planet, is it that much of a stretch to believe that some new or assumed extinct large species might eventually be discovered?

 

 

[mmt7714]

very interesting article victor, thanks for posting the link, but if you read into the article you find that while still impressive, it's not quite as impressive as it looks. The article states that 60% of the 408 new species discovered were species within an already known species. Thats 244 of the 408 that were basically already known but are different in some small way from the already known species. This, many times,  is genetically or two monkeys look exactly like, eat the same things, act the same, live in the same environment, but one of the monkeys' big toe is longer than the other. Now I know that is an extreme, and somewhat humorous example, but it gets the point across. That leaves 164 completely new species discovered since 1993. So in the last 17 years they have discovered 164 all together new species. That is still impressive and I can see where that could add some fuel to the fire for the existence of bigfoot or loch ness. Now, if you take that 164 new species I would be willing to bet that a large portion of them are small rodents or extremely small deer or similar animals. Now if they could find something as small as a mouse sized rodent in the vast amazonian rainforest, it would stand to reason that they could find an 8 foot tall 400lb bipedal ape in the pacific northwest of the U.S. The article even states that a vast majority of the new species discovered were found by simply going out in the forest and looking. No high-tech equipment was used. With the ample amount of people using high tech equipment to look for all of these cryptids you would think they could find a single shred of reputable evidence. I don't know, don't think I am argueing, I am just discussing some questions that popped into my head as I read the article.  I appreciate the responses.

[Empty Quiver]

Cryptozooligy, isn't that latin for I got too much time on my hands?

Bigfoot and all its relatives. Do you honestly think that not one hunter in the history of mankind has bagged one because they are sneaky? This is the same critter that shows up at the cabin of city folks on vacation in the woods right?

Nessy, maybe fifty thousand years ago. See above.

Chuppacabre, Mothman, Werewolves, Dracula, Headless Horseman,et.al. " Kids get in the house or the boogeyman will get you."

All excellent stories, great fodder for campfire stories but nothing more. I enjoy the stories and the what if discussions, but sorry no such thing.

[mmt7714]

Quiver, I for the most part agree with you, but surely you know that the headless horseman exists. He is normally seen late at night with a chuppacabra riding with him and sometimes accompanied by a small family of bigfeet(I think thats plural for bigfoot). On rare occasions his horse is also headless and the theory is that it was bitten off by a werewolf.  Do I think bigfoot exists? maybe, but probably not. Do I believe in the Loch ness monster? Not really or at least 95% sure it doesn't exist. Do I believe in all the rest of the hundreds of supposed cryptids out there? For the most part, not really. See, its not that I am trying to prove the existence or sway someone's thought process here. I just find it interesting to think about, and find it interesting to discuss. Life is typically so boring it is fun to think that maybe just maybe there is a little left out there that we egotystical all mighty humans have not found yet. As you can plainly see I tend to sway back and forth as to belief in the existance of such things depending on what side of  the bed I wake up on. Anyway, enjoying the discussion, and appreciate the responses.

[FourBee]

Does Big Foot exist?   I seriously doubt it.   Too many hunters for this bumbly thing not to be shot.
Loch Ness ?   Now that is a possibility, but again, the use of high tech equipment hasn't been able to find it.
Flying Saucers ?   In Vietnam, I worked in a high security Air Combat Operations Center.   The day I picked up a log book with large print on the cover " UFO SIGHTINGS" that was left on the Recon - Intel console and scanned over hundreds of United States fighter pilot reports, both USAF and US Marine, from 1965 to the present day I was sitting there in 1968.  It actually made me sick to my stomach.  I went one step further.  I carried the hard back log-book into Intelligence next door.   There were at least 1 high ranking officer and several Captians and Lt's.   They all stopped what they were doing and just stared at me.  My expression must have been very serious.  I broke the silence by holding up the book and saying what is this?    One of the Captains sat down at a desk and pulled out a large leafed book of all the aircraft in the entire world.  He pointed out that what was entered into  the log was of unknown origin.    Those officers would not (could not)  elaborate except to say - - - - "you make your own decision ."

[Empty Quiver]

Oh, I like the stories and the what if's plenty. To be honest with you I'm more hooked on the Bermuda triangle stories more than the spooky critters.

In the interest of full disclosure, I'm a big Coast to Coast fan. Amazing how many times I find myself nodding to the guests stories, thinking well... who knows.  The crypto stuff tends to strech my imagination more often though.

[Swampman]

There is so much land out there that people never set foot on that Swampman a.k.a. Bigfoot could easily be missed.

I believe in several co-existant dimensions.  Quantum Physics proves they exist IMO.  What people see at times and what can be "found" aren't the same thing.

[Victor3]

Cryptozooligy, isn't that latin for I got too much time on my hands?

Bigfoot and all its relatives. Do you honestly think that not one hunter in the history of mankind has bagged one because they are sneaky? This is the same critter that shows up at the cabin of city folks on vacation in the woods right?

Nessy, maybe fifty thousand years ago. See above.

Chuppacabre, Mothman, Werewolves, Dracula, Headless Horseman,et.al. " Kids get in the house or the boogeyman will get you."

All excellent stories, great fodder for campfire stories but nothing more. I enjoy the stories and the what if discussions, but sorry no such thing.

 Party pooper!

 I pretty much agree with you though.

 However, since we are finding new species regularly, I don't think it's impossible that we might find something real out there that could explain one of the legends. The Mountain Gorilla was described by locals for centuries, but most of the world still thought of them as some kind of mythical beast until a German explorer 'discovered' them and bagged one in 1902.

[Victor3]

With the ample amount of people using high tech equipment to look for all of these cryptids you would think they could find a single shred of reputable evidence. I don't know, don't think I am argueing, I am just discussing some questions that popped into my head as I read the article.  I appreciate the responses.

 I agree. I don't see what you're saying as argumentative at all. IMO, a good measure of scepticism is healthy when discussing such things. 

[Micahn]

Big foot and the Yetti - same critter different parts of the globe.  Normaly i would say it was a mis itentified aminal like a bear or other animal.  But - Teddy Rosevelt said he lived with a family of them.  So not sure.  he was a politician after all and they do not always tell the truth.
If he were a Democrat then we would know he was lying but as a Republican - not sure and will give him the benefit of the doubt and say possible that in the millions and millions of acers of wild country in the US having an animal that has not been offically discovered is possible but not probable..

Sorry to do this to you, However Teddy Roosevelt never said no such thing. If you want to see what he really said go to this link and read. http://bigfootsightings.org/2008/05/02/theodore-roosevelts-bigfoot-story/

[mmt7714]

Wow! co-existant dimensions, now that is even a little out there for me. Who knows though, right? Bermuda triangle is of interest to me as well. Strange place it is. I also listen to coast to coast, it is a very interesting show. It's weird though and kind of funny, the topic on that show could be so off the wall and unbelievable like tribe of underground pygmies are mating with monkey vampires to create chupacabras. At first you think oh dear lord here we go again, but by the end of the show you are thinking well maybe they could exist. I know that is an extreme example but it proves that anything is believable to the right person. Good discussion and thanks for the responses.

[Swampman]

Heaven is a dimension as is hell.  They are right here and we just can't see them except when we are sick, getting ready to die, on drugs, or given the oppurtunity for whatever reason.

[mmt7714]

Swamp, you are correct in every sense of the word when you describe when a lot of people search out heaven or I guess even hell in some instances. With that said, I am not certain that heaven nor hell are actual dimensions in the physical sense. I tend to think of a demension as a physical place not of this world but another. Heaven and hell are spiritual places not of this earth or world. These of course are just my opinions and I guess it all depends on how you see dimensions as being defined. Good point though, brings out a little thought. Who knows, if you believe in stuff like that check out the skinwalker ranch for an interesting subject. It talks about people witnessing portals opening up to display creatures and the such. Hoax? maybe, who knows, but interesting non the less if you like that sort of thing. I myself believe in Heaven and of course Hell. Some do and some don't I guess. Anyway, interesting discussion.

[Skeezix]

Me personally, I don't believe in the Chupacabra, Mothman, Dracula, Headless Horseman, Jersey Devil, Thunderbird, or several others.  And I don't think I believe in inter-dimensional travel by normal flesh-and-blood entities like us.  At least not back and forth between them.  Maybe the places we call Heaven and hell are other dimensions, but death is the ticket to get there, and we leave the flesh-and-blood behind when we make that jump.

I do firmly and steadfastly believe in bigfoot.  Nessy and Champ (Lake Champlain), maybe.  Loup Garou or wolfman or Nalusa Falaya and other similar creatures, maybe.  (But if they exist, I think they are much different than the legends about them.)  Ghosts, spirits, demons and such, absolutely.  Even Jesus spoke of them. 

UFO's, absolutely.  To be classified as a UFO, it only had to be Unidentified.  Just because somebody couldn't identify it at the time doesn't mean it was unknown.  BUT, I also worked for NASA, the U.S. Army Missile Command and the Government for a number of years, and spent several years at White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico and other installations out in the boonies at various places around the country.  And I worked on aircraft that the Gov't still hasn't acknowledged the existence of.  And I HAVE seen things that flew with unconventional technology that I was not privy to and did not understand.  I'm NOT saying that it was alien technology, just technology to which I wasn't privy. 

But I sure heard stories........

[mcwoodduck]

Thunderbird

I think the thunder bird did exist.  There was a bird in New Zealand that was a really large bird of pry that hunted along the river banks.  It hunted the Emu.  When people showed up it hunted them, and they wiped it out.
I think the stories from Indian coultures are stories of  the past that are similar birds that hunted along the plains long before people and they wiped it out as well.
There is a picture of a bunch of union soldiers on the great plains with a large bird that looks like a flying Dinosaur they shot down.  If aligators and sharks were here during the dino days why not something else having made it till the 1400, 1500 or even 1800's?  Were the Dragons that Knights fought the same bird like creatures.  Have to admit that a european dragon looks like one of the flying dinos.  I think the breathing fire and guarding treasure are embelishments.

[mcwoodduck]

Big foot and the Yetti - same critter different parts of the globe.  Normaly i would say it was a mis itentified aminal like a bear or other animal.  But - Teddy Rosevelt said he lived with a family of them.  So not sure.  he was a politician after all and they do not always tell the truth.
If he were a Democrat then we would know he was lying but as a Republican - not sure and will give him the benefit of the doubt and say possible that in the millions and millions of acers of wild country in the US having an animal that has not been offically discovered is possible but not probable..

Sorry to do this to you, However Teddy Roosevelt never said no such thing. If you want to see what he really said go to this link and read. http://bigfootsightings.org/2008/05/02/theodore-roosevelts-bigfoot-story/

Thanks.  for setting me strait.   So now I can say I really think Bigfoot is a story and not real based on miss identified animals and ghost stories.

[Swampman]

I have an inside track so I don't wonder about these things anymore.

[bearmgc]

There is so much land out there that people never set foot on that Swampman a.k.a. Bigfoot could easily be missed.

I believe in several co-existant dimensions.  Quantum Physics proves they exist IMO.  What people see at times and what can be "found" aren't the same thing.

Exactly. Quantum physics, straight up parallel universes. Then for a real thrill which will turn your head backwards, read up on the newest aspect of physics called "String Theory". Wow. Both can also scientifically support the existance of God, for those who need to be convinced. And other things....

[FourBee]

Posted by: Skeezix    Maybe the places we call Heaven and hell are other dimensions, but death is the ticket to get there, and we leave the flesh-and-blood behind when we make that jump.

Posted by: bearmgc  Exactly. Quantum physics, straight up parallel universes. Then for a real thrill which will turn your head backwards, read up on the newest aspect of physics called "String Theory". Wow. Both can also scientifically support the existance of God, for those who need to be convinced.

You guys are bringing up some interesting thoughts here  ......  It brings these scriptures to mind...

1 Corinthians 15:51 ¶ Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Job 19:26  And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

[Swampman]

I see no conflict with the scripture.  Our old bodies aren't going to Heaven that's for sure we will have a new one.

Einstein said that a solid mass cannot exceed the speed of light.  Makes perfect sense.

[Cohort]

It goes back to the thing that Cleopatra said to Caesar, when she at first met him.

Just because you can not see it ,doesn't ever mean it isn't there . Just because you do not hear it ,doesn't mean its not making a sound .

[500 A-SQUARE]

 I dont know WHATS REALLY OUT THERE, But it is scary how close we came to a real chemical made monster. The crazy stuff that happened for real in 1956 at Minamata, Japan caused by PMT (inorganic methyl mecury). This caused major brain problems and most of all it corrupts the fetus and causes grotesquely figured animals. Methyl mecury is a chromosomal fixative, baisicaly it freezes certan body parts at different parts of the evolutionary scale. I have seen a very deformed critter that looked like a badger come out of the portal of an old mine 6 years ago. I have never been back to that mine. I looked the mine up on USGS and some mecury had come out of that mine. I dont know if thats what caused that critter to be deformed. Also look at the movie prophecy made in 1979 about a mutated bear. This is very a plausible condition but normially the critter cannot live after birth, BUT not impossable..............

[Curtis]

Discounting the odd mutant of course, my theory is that any land dwelling species that has not at one time or other ended up as road kill does not exist. 

Curtis

[tony212]

The important thing is not whether or not you belive any of these things exist.  The important thing is that you believe that it is possible for them to exist.  If you close your mind to ideas simply because they haven't been proven yet, then no one will try to prove them and no new discoveries will occur.    Does that make sense? 
Tony212

[mcwoodduck]

The important thing is not whether or not you belive any of these things exist.  The important thing is that you believe that it is possible for them to exist.  If you close your mind to ideas simply because they haven't been proven yet, then no one will try to prove them and no new discoveries will occur.    Does that make sense? 
Tony212

It does.
But on the other side of the coin sometimes you need to stop looking and trying to prove something.
For 1,000 years we have found that capitalism works.  the Left keeps telling us Communism and socialism are better and no matter what proof you show them that where ever you try them is does not work they keep trying to instill more and more on us trying to prove that it will work.

[painted horse]

There is so much land out there that people never set foot on that Swampman a.k.a. Bigfoot could easily be missed.

I believe in several co-existant dimensions.  Quantum Physics proves they exist IMO. { What people see at times and what can be "found" aren't the same thing.}

 
Man, you got that right, 'specially if John Barley Corn's involved.....

[picturerock]

Woolly mammoths survived on Wrangel Island as late as about 1650 BC, or at the same time the Egyptians were working on the pyramids.  That is really pretty recent.  I know some canyons in the Sierra Nevada that probably don't see a human except once every couple of years at most.   There definitely could be something living up there even in a crowded state like California, let alone the Amazon jungles, the mountains of central Asia or Northern Canadian provinces.

[mrbigtexan]

i seen bigfoot on a beef jerky commercial!