new bronze

[Cannoneer]

Thanks Dan, I was just curious; I always just assumed it was a figure of a "Northern Warrior," probably because in our own time it seems a little incongruous to associate Jesus with a weapon.

[RocklockI]

Thanks Boom J  

Well Andy It pained me to box him up and put him in the mail .

Signiture required by 3:00 tomorrow

I test shot him this morning . 25 grains is what I used and it seemed plennty

Personaly I would be surprised if it wasnt supposed to be Jesus . He there to protect you from the flash .
Being the Ave Maria is on it It must have been inspired by a priest , you have to wonder how many people knew latin back then ?

I understand that some letters are backward ,so the thinking is the Basher never knew really what he was writing . Well not how to spell anyway ....... I like this guy !

No tools of anykind where used in the making other than extremly fine wire to scribe in the inscriptions into the wet clay .

Boring and venting excepted . On the origanl there are spots were the bronze wore or chipped off in those spots they are missing on mine too . There will never be two of these exactly alike . I lost some detail but if you look at pics of the origanal you will see the similarities .

Andy Remember this one comes with a full money back guarantee !

Gary

[RocklockI]

These and a couple others is what I had to work with .

Gary

[dan610324]

back then you had the crusades and all other atempts to cristian the world
most of it was done with weapons
so I guess they had a slightly different wiew on religion at that time  

[gulfcoastblackpowder]

Thanks Boom J  

Well Andy It pained me to box him up and put him in the mail .

...

Andy Remember this one comes with a full money back guarantee !

Gary

Hey...you have another...and you have a group of three ready to be cast!

I don't think I'll likely be taking you up on the guarantee...but it's always nice to know it's there.  I'm certain this is a keeper.

Thanks for posting that image of the original with the end of the pole in it.  It's what I had in mind for that end.  Do you or Dan know if the pole is original or a recreation?  Any pictures that show the whole pole, or details on it's length.  I know handgonne were mounted on a number of different length poles, typically ranging from 3-6' (1-2m), and my initial thought is something aroung 3-4'.

Perhaps the misspellings were intentional.  For instance, Hebrew spelling of God (YHVH) leaves out the vowels intentionally to protect the sanctity of His name.  Considering this is a weapon, it's all the more likely that text was modified from the correct form to protect the words from being distorted by the purpose of the gonne or by an enemy who may capture the gonne and potentially turn it against it's owner.

[RocklockI]

Tracy has the other one ! He is under STRICK intsructions to send it to Dan if I croak B4 I get the invested ones cast .

And if he doesnt he will be one of those ghost shows with me beating him and chasing him all around  .

But like the song says " everybody want to go to heaven but nobody wants to go right now ."

So hopefully Dan will get one of the three .

Gary


 

[dan610324]

the pole is a replica , remember that it is over 600 years old and was found in a lake
so its a museum reconstruction
I would guess 3-4 foot would be a suitable length

[gulfcoastblackpowder]

I thought it was - I remembered something about the lake.  Do you know by what means the replica was designed - if they used any actual reference or just kind of made something they thought looked right?

[dan610324]

probably a mix of both as its an serious government run museum
they most probably searched for available info and then added some own ideas

[gulfcoastblackpowder]

Now, I don't have much time, since I'm on my way out the door, but I wanted to post this, as I knew you'd all be looking for it.  I got home today to find a Post Office note, and instead of waiting until tommorrow, as would be prudent, to ensurre the package had gotten back to the Post Office, I hopped back in my car and went up there (some speed limit may have been broken ).  Happiness!  They had it!

Took a few quick snapshots (all are bigger if you go to the photobucket address).  I'll take more when I get a shaft made for it, and if anyone has any requests:

[dan610324]

if it hadnt been for the perfect bore and pole hole this one could probably have fooled a lot of collectors
its a masterpiece

[RocklockI]

what do you think ? this is my improvement .    might as well try one . Kabbommmm , chop ,chop ,stick ,stick .

Oh yea and rare bear of a photograph !    Tracy is doing something ....... Good work buddy ,did you keep it up for 3 mins more after I left ?

Mike will spill the beans ....... Chop chop ,stick ,stick .

[KABAR2]

Gary He looks better when you don't have him laying on his side....... I would say
this photo fits right in the thread on wheel making for a M1841 1/2 scale 6 pndr.......
which they showed some hand filing on in another thread.....  this project is in three
different threads.......

I like your pole arm I hope your not making the whole thing out of bronze.....

[RocklockI]

Of course it will be bronze ! 

I looked at the winkie spear but it is just too much .
Gary

[Cannoneer]

Personaly I would be surprised if it wasnt supposed to be Jesus . He there to protect you from the flash .
Being the Ave Maria is on it It must have been inspired by a priest , you have to wonder how many people knew latin back then ?

back then you had the crusades and all other atempts to cristian the world
most of it was done with weapons      
so I guess they had a slightly different wiew on religion at that time

I think that both of you may be right about the figure being a representation of 'The Lord', especially considering the fact that there is partial text from the prayer on the barrel. I was looking around and came across another example of a somewhat similar type called the "Danziger handgonne", because it was dicovered in 1920, buried in what was then the eastern German city of Danzig (now Gdansk, Poland), while digging trenches for a new water supply pipe. On the cone shaped muzzle are three heads that are descibed as "three solemn looking, bearded faces), and the image has similarities with the Mörkö head. I'm pretty sure the photo is of a reproduction.

[gulfcoastblackpowder]

In the 1970s, a friend of mine had cast 20 bronze copies of this beautiful handgonne and sold them at a moderate price.
http://www.musketeer.ch/blackpowder/handgonne.html

Yep, I spent some time on that site when I first got interested in handgonne.  I really wanted to have a Tannenburg (I was actually most interested in the Danzinger, but at the time I didn't know anyone casting bronze), and even had Kap Pullen from this forum make one for me, but his "boss" didn't want to sell it after it was made.  This Morko is so much better than that, not because I don't like the Tannenburg or because of the craftsmanship - they are both first rate, but for a few reasons - I like the design better, it's more unique, has a great story to go along with it (so does the Tannenburg, but this one I can go into detail on the casting process), and probably the most important reason of all - it's mine! (Thanks Gary!)

[gulfcoastblackpowder]

Of course it will be bronze ! 

I looked at the winkie spear but it is just too much .
Gary

Should make for a really cool project.  The only problem with making the whole thing out of bronze is that bronze blades don't hold up very well to actual use.  Making the tube portion of bronze, and adding on a steel blade would could be done as a reproduction of an original, and would make for one wicked pole arm to carry around! (yeah, I've given this some thought)

[Cat Whisperer]

Great thread.  It's one of the ones that inspired my making several gonnes.  But, alas, mine are in 1018 (3/4" copper tubing caliber), 1144 (golf-ball caliber) and stainless (20ga. slug caliber).  Great fun putting free-form curves into metal.

[carronader]

Why you even looking at edged weapons Muskie ? Ain't even scratched the surface of where you can take casting , more than enough awesome bladesmiths out there........too few bronze barrel bashers. Put away those evil thoughts and get back on line.  How about these ?

[Spuddy]

Breechloader would be awesome!

[carronader]

Dammit Muskie , I love all this stuff............but it don't go  BOOM!

[KABAR2]

Dammit Muskie , I love all this stuff............but it don't go  BOOM!

It's nice to see you like the Slav stuff,
& it's nice to see some stuff from where My Gandmom was from and nice to see a

[carronader]

There's a lot to like... Beautiful City - good people - and more cannons than you can shake a stick at.

[Cannoneer]

In the 1970s, a friend of mine had cast 20 bronze copies of this beautiful handgonne and sold them at a moderate price.
http://www.musketeer.ch/blackpowder/handgonne.html

Yep, I spent some time on that site when I first got interested in handgonne.  I really wanted to have a Tannenburg (I was actually most interested in the Danzinger, but at the time I didn't know anyone casting bronze), and even had Kap Pullen from this forum make one for me, but his "boss" didn't want to sell it after it was made.  This Morko is so much better than that, not because I don't like the Tannenburg or because of the craftsmanship - they are both first rate, but for a few reasons - I like the design better, it's more unique, has a great story to go along with it (so does the Tannenburg, but this one I can go into detail on the casting process), and probably the most important reason of all - it's mine! (Thanks Gary!)

What I was really concerned with was the comparison of the bearded heads on both gonnes. I think the three "solemn men" portrayed on the Danziger handgonne may go even further to support Dan's contention that the image on the Mörkö may well be intended to represent Jesus.
There was an artistic/religious iconography used in the Middle Ages that used three identical bearded faces to represent the Trinity (God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit), and I think that's what may be represented on the Danziger bronze barrel.   

[dominick]

Gary He looks better when you don't have him laying on his side....... I would say
this photo fits right in the thread on wheel making for a M1841 1/2 scale 6 pndr.......
which they showed some hand filing on in another thread.....  this project is in three
different threads.......

I like your pole arm I hope your not making the whole thing out of bronze.....

I was thinking this is a base for one of the Brooke Rifles?

[JeffG]

I am really waiting for the day when I re-open this thread to see that little king howitzer finished!!

[seacoastartillery]

Quote by Dom, two postings back:  "I was thinking this is a base for one of the Brooke Rifles?"

     You are right Dom, these pieces are being fitted to form the peripheral octagon of the Platform which will support the Traverse Circle Track, the Pintle Pedestal, the 5/8" dia. pintle pin.  The entire Platform Assy. will weigh almost 45 Lbs. and will be a robust foundation for the 35 Lb. Chassis, the 20 Lb. Upper Carriage and the 100 Lb. tube.  We are making four of these and will show in-process pics when we get to the placement of the Pintle Pedestal in about two weeks on a separate thread.

Tracy and Mike

[RocklockI]

Yes those are base pieces for the Brookes . The thing is massive and when you get to see the work going into them it really incredible .
 
Mike has been making , reliving and bending "frogs" which are steel reinforcments for the wooden beams and interconnecting transome beams for four days  , and I havnt seen them all I'm sure .

I have had the privilage of shortening to length a few bolts over the last few days . These bolts are over 12" long and go through the three main beams . They are 1/4" or less in dia. and each one is threaded and has a head on them that is brazed on !

Some of these heads are at severe angles to the shaft as there are some weird bolts toggling this thinnage together .

While pulling the bolts out off the wood to shorten them ...........Holy cow ! These things are drilled tight and aliged perfectly thought three three inch thick beams . Mike made a long punch to drive them out but its only 5 inches long and still they are nuts tight in the wood .

I'm only rambbling on to say that I never really appericiated the perfect fitting to the level of ... well perfect .

When I said privilage ,I was not kidding in the least because the last gentlemen that got to work on one have been dead for a long long time (and it wasnt 'got to').

Nothing lasts forever I have got to actually work on a Brookes rifle .    

God forbid I'd ever be forced to attempt the dead lift of say

Even in 1/6 scale these thing are just plain perfect !  The best is yet to come as I've never got to see a rifling maching cut a bore .

Today I made a collar of aluminum to hold the 'King howieish' piece in the lathe . finger crossed and toes too .

I'll start 'bashing' it soon , I have only recently been introducted to this term or jargon by a fellow member ,  . Who claims to speak english ,if not really think in it   sorry Tom .

I'm not too sure if I'm a bashing when I do a single part of the work or if it is meant to convey the whole attempt ? Is it wax work or wood turning ...a lifestyle maybe ...?

I kinda just go along with some of the ...thoughts ....  thoughts inside a dream ? LZ

Gary

 ETA after reading Tracys post , I am even more impressed than I was  .......... verbage dude ............pintle pestal the outtewr perifial circular encumbassesages of the the former framed yeslal daggermn . On on top of that ....more big words ! .......... Here I just thought it was all just COOL .

[gulfcoastblackpowder]

What I was really concerned with was the comparison of the bearded heads on both gonnes. I think the three "solemn men" portrayed on the Danziger handgonne may go even further to support Dan's contention that the image on the Mörkö may well be intended to represent Jesus.
There was an artistic/religious iconography used in the Middle Ages that used three identical bearded faces to represent the Trinity (God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit), and I think that's what may be represented on the Danziger bronze barrel.   

I know, just confirming it is a replica.  I agree that your theory is sound.

[RocklockI]

Here is a new idea , it is a linstock head !
 




what do you guys think of it ?

It has a token spearhead with a 'yank em off the horse backwards hook' and a reversed hook to which the slo match is attched (pinched) . No machines used to make it . either B4 casting or after .

OR a bronze fireplace poker ?   

Gary