sized .223 brass issues

[DANNY-L]

was it mentioned to try them in another rifle,the fault may not be your reloads.

[Dinny]

was it mentioned to try them in another rifle,the fault may not be your reloads.

The current rifle is #2 for these reloads.


Thanks, Dinny

[necchi]

Dinny, This ain't a brass or sizing issue anymore. It's the gun.
 There's advise over on the handi forum about pulling the firing pin and taking a bit off the pin's shoulder, and/or installing a heavier spring.
I was having trouble with mine, until I figured out I wasn't pulling the trigger back all the way and holding each time. something about the bar not dropping proper.

Another one is to do the ejector to extractor conversion, just grind that shelf off, (easy) and the extactor pushes the case back into the frame.

just tossing out ideas,,,John

[Dinny]

John,
  I have no issues, at all, when I fire factory ammo. 

Thanks, dinny

[southernutah]

did you ever try different primmers.............try some standard winchesters

[necchi]

John,
  I have no issues, at all, when I fire factory ammo. 

wow! this is a stumper,,the last idea I got is ya might have a heavy hand whilst seating the primer, possibly causeing a deformation of the pocket,,then it could be just those few bad cases that FTF, but, if your loading for other cals and it's just this gun then that's a wash 
Primers only need to be flush,, no deeper,, I wish ya luck, hope you can find the trouble

[Dinny]

Today I loaded 3 more of the brass that was donated to me for testing. This brass was sized using standard FL sizing dies, not the small base dies. I had two of the three fire on the first try. The third one still won't fire; I must have tried 10 times. I do not have this problem, at all, with factory ammo. In the beginning, I thought it was either improper die settings or the fact that I am using a SB sizing die. Now I haven't the foggiest idea. Today all the primers were seated the same way, by hand. Each of them were seated to the same "feeling." I believe I have isolated all the possible variables in this puzzling equation. This batch of brass was all prepared by an avid shooter and reloader, he has never had these problems.

BTW, I am using CCI BR primers and have tried two other brands in the past with the same results.

Thoughts?

Thanks, Dinny

[DANNY-L]

I think there are alot of people interested in knowing the answer to the problem. For s&g did you try loading the same way using a different press?

[Dinny]

I think there are alot of people interested in knowing the answer to the problem. For s&g did you try loading the same way using a different press?

I only have one press. I guess I could reach out to a nearby friend, but we're both very busy.  I get small windows of opportunity to load these days and these are unpredictable.  I will try though.

Thanks, Dinny

[OR-E-Gun Bill]

  The current rifle is #2 for these reloads.

Thanks, Dinny

Dinny, was there ever any problem with your handloads in the .223 barrel I bought from you? If so, I've yet to experience any FTF with handloads.

Bill

[Dinny]

 The current rifle is #2 for these reloads.

Thanks, Dinny

Dinny, was there ever any problem with your handloads in the .223 barrel I bought from you? If so, I've yet to experience any FTF with handloads.

Bill

Yes, I had the same problems with that barrel that I am having with my current barrel.   That tells me it's still something  on my end.  I'm gonna try a different receiver for s&g again.

EDIT: I just checked the firing pin protrusion on the current frame, 0.045".  That shouldn't be a problem. 

Thanks, Dinny

[NFG]

Can't make head nor tails of this thread

Solution to headspace problems in ANY rifle, but more so in break actions(T/C and NEF) or rear lug actions like the Rem 788.

FIRST...BUY a set of Hornady headspace gauges AND a good dial indicator and 1" mic...if you don't already have them.

SECOND...fire off at least 5 NEW rounds.

THIRD...MEASURE the shoulder to base length of the fired cases using the Hornady gauges...USE the longest one.

FOURTH...MEASURE the base OD of the fired cases at the pressure ring and on an unfired case at the same point...usually the pressure ring is very evident especially if the chamber is cut oversize(like MANY NEF's are prone to)

FIFTH...BUY a set of Redding Competition shell holders for the .378 case.  Use these to setup your sizing die so you WON'T push the shoulder back...record ALL your numbers as each rifle will have different measuerments.

SIXTH...Setup your press by putting in the shell holder that came with the dies or the "original size" shell holder.  Run the ram to the top of the stroke...screw the sizer die down to contact the top of the shell holder, pull back the ram and run the sizer down another 2 turns and LOCK IT IN...YOU DO NOT WANT TO CAM OVER AT THE TOP OF THE RAM STROKE...all you do is put extra pressure on the press linkage, frame, dies etc.

The object is to take out ALL the slop in the stroke and have the shell holder contact the base of the sizer die firmly.

SEVENTH...with the standard shell holder in the ram and the sizer die adjusted as I indicated, size one case and call it the "STANDARD"...KEEP IT SAFE.

EIGHTH...MEASURE the shoulder to base length with the same Hornady headspase gauge as you used measuring the other 3 cases.

This number will give you the  amount of sizing THAT SPECIFIC SIZER DIE produces with the OEM shell holder in THAT SPECIFIC RIFLE...to be a "real reloader" you do this to EVERY ONE OF YOUR RIFLES.

NINTH... subtract the STANDARD from the cases fired in the rifle.

THIS NUMBER WILL BE THE AMOUNT OF HEADSPACE THAT SPECIFIC RIFLE HAS...it doesn't matter if it is an AR, boltgun, break action or locked breach universal receiver.

From now on use the closest Competition shell holder that will push the shoulder back at least 0.001".  In some case you will need to order a shell holder from Redding to fit the actual headspace.  I have rifles that have over 0.020" of "headspace" and shell holders for all 3 standard case sizes up to 0.025" over the standard 0.125" thickness.

I guarantee this will solve ANY headspace issue and will produce cases sized just enough to chamber easily, get the maximum amount of reloads and pretty much stop ANY incipient case head separation...unless the headspace is just totally way out of whack.

I have reloaded and fired ONE .223 case in a Ruger All Weather rifle over 50 times, not once but several times, using a set of Redding FL Bushing dies that happened to fit the chamber dimension perfectly and only work the base 0.001" and using a bushing that only sized 0.001".  The case could have been reloaded more times, but I just got tired of doing it. It took me two days to do that test as it was.

The only NEF 223 I've had, had a chamber both oversize, cut too deep AND cut off center.  I was going to rechamber it to 222 Mag but after I saw just how badly off center it was I thought about doing one of the several .473 size cases but the short barrel put the kybosh on that so  I just cut off the barrel and turned it into a stub barrel and did the 17 FB and 6mm BR.  There's enough barrel left to do a 22 cal on a XP-100 pistol at least.

Luck

[Dinny]

NFG,
  Thanks for the lengthy explanation. I will someday acquire all those tools to complete that task, until then, I guess I will continue to take my chances with what I have. 

Is there any way to explain why I am having this issue with my .223 Rem and not any of the other several calibers I reload for?


Thanks, Dinny

[NFG]

Kinda hard to diagnose at a distance...especially if you can't supply the measurements.  There are about a million and one reason for things to go sour...with ALL the components AND the rifle system...scope and mounts, barrel bedding, reloading dies and press etc.

Dial indicatiors AND 1" mics are about 10 bucks each from KBC tools, Grizzly tools etc, and the Hornady headspace gauges are less than 40 bucks from Midway or you can make one from a 1" sq/rnd piece of alum, steel, brass, a piece of copper/brass/steel pipe, etc with a quarter inch hole drilled through it.  You should also buy the comparator and 6 insert set.  Learning how to use these tools will lead into the realm of "benchrest prepped cases".  I would spend the money on these tools instead of one box of bullets.  Without these basic tools you are whizzing in the dark.

If you can fire factory ammo and your loads are giving you problems then my first inclination is oversizing and pushing the shoulder back TOO far creating excess headspace...unless the powder and primers are bad...BR4 primers are relatively soft so unless the hammer is dragging against the frame or is being slowed down by a tight pin you have other issues to consider.

If you are having the same problem with two barrels then it most likely ISN'T the loading components, it's something in the reloading process, dies or press.

I guarantee if you don't have the dies set to bottom out on the ram and NOT cam over you could be fully sizing one case and only partially sizing another...creating artificial headspace in some which will cause intermittent misfires... partial resizing is notorious for this happening and if you don't believe it a set of headspace guages is the simplest way to find out.

Pull a bullet from a factory case...back the sizing die out one turn...use a grease pencil, non-permanent marking pencil, lipstic, a little grease and put a little on the outside of the case...run the case up into the die and see where the "indicator" line ends up...screw the die down a bit...continue doing this until the line hits just above the shoulder/neck junction.

Fire a round and resize the case...if the case will chamber back the die out a quarter turn...fire another round and resize it the same way...you might have to do this a few more times.  This is a round about way to set you sizer die and object is to back the die out far enough so the shoulder of the fired case is NOT set back and the fired and resized case WON'T chamber.  But you still have to be carefull the case is sized all the way the same each time...spring and slop in the linkage can cause uneven sizing.

Usually, but not always, a resized case will get squeezed and stretched enough during resizing to move the shoulder forward enough to require the die be set to push it back.  I your 223 chamber is long, has "headspace" issues this process will adjust your sizer so it pushes the shoulder back just a bit and any headspace is eliminated.

Most factory ammo is set to SAMMI minimum specs so if you have NO problem firing factory ammo it most likely headspace issues...but at least doing the above proceedure will set your sizer to your chambers dimensions.

The best money you can spend is on a few simple AND cheap tools, learn to use them, then learn to measure EVERTHING including your dog if it will stand still long enough and you have one.

Not to put too fine a point on it or keep sounding on the tool thing, OR think I'm an expert on anything but a good steak...but I load for over two dozen rifle calibers, several pistols, 2 shotgun gauges including rifled barrels etc., been doing this for half a century, build 2 rifles a year minimum and test all kinds of suppositions...and the best money I ever spent was on TOOLS...without measurements and looking at everything three times then looking and measuring again, simple problems become exaggerated and you have a hard time determining where the real problem lies.

Luck

[Land_Owner]

Any possibility that the primers are being contaminated in some way?  Sizing lube?  WD40 (bad stuff for primers)?  Greasy fingers?  Anything?  A contaminated primer may or may not fire depending on the amount of "damage" to the priming compound.  Not saying that "white gloves" are needed to reload.  Just double check for cross-contamination when priming.

[NFG]

I tested the "primer contamination" idea once...dripped some liquid WD40 on a dozen WLR primers...let them set for a hour...fired two...let them set for another hour...fired two...let them set for ANOTHER hour...fired two...let them set overnight...fired off the remaining 6...ALL 12 fired.

Tried it again with 6 more WLR primers...but this time right after I wet them down with WD40...2 fired, 2 didn't...waited an hour...the last two fired.

The "wet" ones seemed to be iffy, but once they soaked for a while who knows.  I don't recommend the soaking practice but I'm not convinved it has any validity.  The only times I've had misfires, for the most part, when you popped the primer you could see there wasn't any priming compoun in the cup most of the times...some the primer popped but ther powder DIDN'T burn...others had no explaination.

When I was "fuzzing" overseas...my weapons were basically dipped in WD40 before being put away...that crap was everywhere AND all over the ammo...never seemed to cause any misfires, pressure problems and so forth.

I "might" be a possiblility but I would look elsewhere.

I've had a few misfires in my NEF 45-120 BC when working up loads...one the primer fired but the powder didn't burn, one was a light hammer strike caused by not holding the trigger back all the way I suspect, but fired the second strike....one was not really a misfire, I just forgot to put in the powder..."senior moment"...
Duh...get the diapers.

Hard to pin down the why's.