Author Topic: Large PETARD to be Built by Seacoast Artillery  (Read 2483 times)

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Offline KABAR2

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Re: Large PETARD to be Built by Seacoast Artillery
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2010, 09:44:41 AM »
You know after thinking upon this I think I have a cheap way to build a Petard with out a lot of trouble.

Take an old Oxygen tank cut the top off about two inches longer than desired length, were you cut it off

cut away material leaving equally spaced tabs, with a torch heat and bend these over to form mounting points

bush the valve hole for your fuse and you have a very basic Petard.
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Large PETARD to be Built by Seacoast Artillery
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2010, 10:59:21 AM »
Tracy & Mike,
This British book that was first published in 1786, contains a description of the petard, its construction, loading, and uses; see p. 408: Military Antiquities
On page 406 (where the link should open) there is an interesting description of the petard being used to lift heavy stones over the walls of an enemies fortifications to crush whatever they land on. In this book the author refers to the wood planking that covers the petards mouth, and holds the petard to its intended target as a "madrier", and it also features the first drawing seen in your opening post.







RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

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Offline Double D

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Re: Large PETARD to be Built by Seacoast Artillery
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2010, 12:22:22 PM »
Actually, I only see one real obstacle to this whole project!  Whose castle are we going to use?

Offline dan610324

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Re: Large PETARD to be Built by Seacoast Artillery
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2010, 01:44:54 PM »
how many do you got to chose from ??
Dan Pettersson
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better safe than sorry

Offline Soot

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Re: Large PETARD to be Built by Seacoast Artillery
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2010, 03:20:39 PM »
Here's one.

Offline dan610324

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Re: Large PETARD to be Built by Seacoast Artillery
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2010, 06:09:58 PM »
well any old castle would do , it aint necessary to destroy the memmories of our childhood  :'(

R.I.P.   Walt
if you hear something knocking , its just Mike and Tracy thats testing their new toy 
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Large PETARD to be Built by Seacoast Artillery
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2010, 06:27:03 PM »
    Double D. wrote,  "For the record that is the door to my shop, not to the wife's kitchen..you think I am stupid or something?  I don't mess with that women! She does to many things to make my life pleasant and is fully schooled in dispensing misery.

And,  it's a theatrical prop; longer fuse greater drama!!!

Tracy,  based on the line drawings, I do not think the petard was robust enough survive more than one shot. Sometime back right here on this board some one posted pictures from the Royal Artillery Museum at Woolwich pictures of several petards...I thought, but sure can't find with search."
 
     From my reading on this topic, I think that the actual implement, made by armorers and paid for by money from a national defense budget was probably very expensive and most likely the very best item of that type that gold could buy.  You see gentlemen, DD, Terry C. and others, you are laboring under the handicap of growing up in a "throw-away society".  How many of us today appreciate the durability of common, lesser expensive items like snow shovels, plastic tarps, the common water bucket, an alarm clock and the common nail?  When one of these items breaks, the vast majority of us simply buy a new one, without even a momentary thought of repairing it.  Also, you are laboring with another handicap, that of believing that the drawings depicting Petard-type mortars are actually accurate in their proportions.
Common tools and weapons of war were built to last and they were designed to last far longer than any similar item today. It took a long time to get a sword or halberd or Petard, it is simply illogical to believe that the siege train on campaign had ten or twenty of these very specialized devices when simply reloading one would be so much simpler and quicker.

     The important thing to remember here is that we have absolutely no intention of making a Petard as fragile looking as the ones those
stylized, old wood-cuts depict.  Safety, safety, safety!!

     Thanks, Boom J.,   That is a very interesting text and I like the mention of details.  Saved that one into my file called 'Petard Project'.

     Kabar2,   Interesting idea, but with a couple pounds of powder committed to the Petard use, to get relatively equivalent power that the ancient sappers got with 6 or 7 pounds of serpentine powder, and considering safety of sappers and engineers, alike, I think we must go with the most robust item we have available, the Monster Mortar Chamber Piece.  We don't want to see the partial gas cylinder, Petard fling back at us about as fast as the locking bar pieces from the Castle Door are going into the Castle grounds.   :o :o

     Obstacle??  We can do it right here in Colorado!  There is a gentleman in the mountains south-west of Colorado Springs, Colorado who has singlehandedly built his own castle out of native rocks found on his property.  The main turret is almost 170 feet tall!  The structure covers almost 1 acre.  The great room is about 120 feet long by 70 feet wide and has a ceiling that goes up 50 feet.  Maybe for a modest contribution to his building fund, we could build an authentic castle door and then make it disappear!!   ;D ;D

    Soot,   I don't think the Mouseketeers would let us get away with that!

Tracy and Mike


The reason that our Petard will be good for more than one shot is evident here.  11" O.D. x 11" long;  4" I.D. x 8" long Chamber 2.5 Lbs. capacity.  





267 Lbs. of A36 Low Carbon, fully annealed, steel is more than adequate for a big blank charge.




Dan,   Hey, have you been eating too many icicles up there in the frozen North??  Brain-Freeze maybe??  It can't be us that you hear; it must be Lorenz knocking on the door of that Castle in Denmark, trying to collect his inheritance.   ;D ;D
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Large PETARD to be Built by Seacoast Artillery
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2010, 06:37:25 PM »
While I am sure the chamber piece will easily survive an alternate use, I question the ability of the engineers to manually lift the piece into place on the door.  Remember, this has to be done potentially against resistance, and bringing lots of apparatus along is unlikely.
GG
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Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Large PETARD to be Built by Seacoast Artillery
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2010, 12:50:52 AM »
Our local Habitat Store has doors for $3 - $4 each.

Shall I pick up - ahh -  one, two - ahh - several ???

(For the A3ANRVM&CS ?)

 ;D
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Offline Victor3

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Re: Large PETARD to be Built by Seacoast Artillery
« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2010, 02:15:03 AM »
Another Wiki pic
Obviously created before the technological advance of fence climbing, or working with the theory of " It's better to blow something up than it is to walk around"


 I really did 'LOL' when I read that, and that's not common for me...

 Look at that low-budget setup. They made it from a flower pot and a stick they found in the yard! At first glance, I thought the door to the 'castle' was already half open.  :)
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Offline Victor3

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Re: Large PETARD to be Built by Seacoast Artillery
« Reply #40 on: April 20, 2010, 03:51:42 AM »
 M&T - I'd go with the monster mortar chamber.

 To rig it to the mock 'castle door' (buttressed with pipe or something), you could put two eye bolts in the existing holes on either end and string a short cable between them. Attach a pulley to the door above the C/G of the chamber and use another cable hooked to the short cable to lift it with the Suburban (do not attempt with Smart car). Use a clamp to secure the cable at the pulley. Brace the bottom rear of the chamber to the ground with something.

 The above would be a back & foot-safe way to lift it into position I think. I assume you'll be using your trailer, so you'd only need to roll the chamber off and into position in front of the door. If you engineer it so it doesn't blow off of the rigging after firing, you can just back the trailer under it and lower it down onto it.

 You might think about electric ignition for added safety, and for timing to get good pics. ;)
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

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Offline Zulu

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Re: Large PETARD to be Built by Seacoast Artillery
« Reply #41 on: April 20, 2010, 03:43:12 PM »
Tracy and Mike,
What are you going to use as a door to blast through?  It seems to me it should be at least 4" thick and hinged so that the weakest point is the door and not the hinges or the walls they are attached to.  It seems that this could be difficult because the walls and hinges need to be very strong.  That will require masonry work that I assume could possibly exceed you budget.
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Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Large PETARD to be Built by Seacoast Artillery
« Reply #42 on: April 20, 2010, 04:34:14 PM »
You could always make a 1/6 scale petard and use it on the cat door.   ;D
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Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Large PETARD to be Built by Seacoast Artillery
« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2010, 04:01:00 PM »
You could always make a 1/6 scale petard and use it on the cat door.   ;D

     We could be using your suggestion, Tim.  Mike and I just figured out what the extra expense of driving the whale, (Suburban) cross country and it's way, way too much.  We would have to either stop eating, not too likely, or sleep out in the bushes every night, and we don't mean at KOAs either!  We have to take Mike's Camry car and, with 450 Lbs. of Brooke cannons in the trunk, two for delivery and one for shooting, we just can't place another huge weight, (267 Lbs.) in there.

     Maybe something in the range of 25 to 35 Lbs., approximately 1/2 scale of a 70 Lb. original, would be O.K., but then there is the problem of the target and he is not about to put roof racks on his precious Camry which gets 32 MPG on the highway.  It is pretty disappointing, but we will probably have to wait until after the trip to do this idea properly.  We can load all the full size, heavy, equipment on the Monster Mortar trailer and go camping for a few days to do it all properly with a variety of movies.  

Mike and Tracy
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline dominick

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Re: Large PETARD to be Built by Seacoast Artillery
« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2010, 04:58:32 PM »
Mike and Tracy,

I have a 13" long piece of 6" OD x 4.150" ID Seamless HR tube and a 4.25" diameter x 5" long chunk of 1018 round.  The ID of the tube is bored and honed to the 4.15" dimension.  I had them machined last year for coffee can mortars.  I have no use for them now and they are yours very cheap!  If you can use these for the Petard then please contact me if you're interested.  Dom

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Large PETARD to be Built by Seacoast Artillery
« Reply #45 on: April 26, 2010, 03:57:11 PM »
     Dominic,    Thank you very much for the offer, however with no way to haul a substantial reinforced door target, because we are forced by economics to take the Camry, we have no need to make a petard from scratch.  Our plan is now to use something we already have here and short haul it to our prairie range for testing.  Certainly do appreciate the offer though and hope to see you in Virginia.

Mike and Tracy
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline JeffG

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Re: Large PETARD to be Built by Seacoast Artillery
« Reply #46 on: April 26, 2010, 05:21:01 PM »
Not a good idea.  The user is looking for a "free radical" of shrapnel or target piece to come back and bite him.  ::) The most recent developement of the petard that I have experience with,  is the Claymore mine. Granted it's a open air petard, but a shapecharge nonetheless. 
The damn things are dangerous.
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btNdSroBIns

All the stickys about barrel construction, wall thickness, safety safety safety....ad nauseum, and we are as a group ressurecting the petard???  Not for me.  I will pray for your safety.
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Large PETARD to be Built by Seacoast Artillery
« Reply #47 on: April 26, 2010, 05:48:10 PM »
There are methods of making it safe - like massive amounts of things like concrete between observers and the event.  It takes planning.

I  think if you look back at what M&T have done in the past you'll observe painstaking efforts to not be in the potential path of ANYTHING.

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Offline JeffG

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Re: Large PETARD to be Built by Seacoast Artillery
« Reply #48 on: April 27, 2010, 06:03:48 AM »
Ok,  ;Dthe closest I'm gonna get is a video, anyway. "Fire in the hole!"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Large PETARD to be Built by Seacoast Artillery
« Reply #49 on: April 27, 2010, 07:23:25 AM »
     JeffG,    Very nice of you to look out for our safety.  We won't do these cannon shots any other way.  I am VERY aware or the backblast potential and will promise you to consider that in preparation for the shot.  I fired everything the US Army had available back in my Infantryman days 1968-1972 including claymores, and a friend of mine caught the brass fuse assy. in his shoulder from his own 40mm grenade that HE FIRED from his M-79 at a tree 100M away!  However, you are not completely and thoroughly respectful of backblast until you have seen how a 106 mm recoiless rifle can reduce a 10' high and 10' wide wall of empty ammo crates, 20 feet behind the gun, into toothpicks.......in one ...BLAM!!

Tracy
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling