Author Topic: New project idea (Read 1724 times)

jason045 · « **on:** April 22, 2010, 05:45:48 PM »

Im thinking of putting together a short, big bore scout handi. 16" barrel, maybe an inch or so off the stock, bob the forend a little so the short tube dont look so funny, and drill and tap for a forward mount scope. 30-32" OAL. Undecided betweeen the 45-70 and .500s&w. Probably exclusively shoot big, heavy cast bullets. Which would give the best ballistics with the short barrel. I was thinking the the 500 may be a little more efficient but I may be wrong. Primary purpose of this rig will be a general go anywhere, do anything, throw it behind the truck seat, utility rifle. Maybe take it on an occasional whitetail or hog hunt. Thoughts?

Spanky · « **Reply #1 on:** April 22, 2010, 05:54:14 PM »

I wouldn't use the 45-70 or the 500. I'd go with a 44 magnum cut down to 16" with a set of youth synthetics on it.
Components and ammo for the 500 are too expensive and the 45-70 has alot of case capacity for the short barrel.

Spanky

Couger · « **Reply #2 on:** April 22, 2010, 07:50:37 PM »

Good points Spanky.

What about instead choosing the .460 S&W? And also being able to shoot the .45Colt? .454 Casull?

And possibly even the .45 Rimmed? and .45 Schofeld?

I agree the .45/70 occupies too much chamber space for a 16in tube.

Another alternative is to simply say "screw it!" and choose whatever round one might be packing in a wheelgun and make the rifle the same - even a .41Mag or .357 Mag, or the .44 or .45C.

And still another alternative is to make the 16inch rifle in .357Maxi to complement a .357M wheelgun, or in .414Super to complement the .41M, or the .445Super to complement the .44Mag.

sachel.45 · « **Reply #3 on:** April 22, 2010, 08:07:52 PM »

i think id go .30-30

jason045 · « **Reply #4 on:** April 22, 2010, 08:24:13 PM »

I thought about the 460 but I dont think h&r is doing 45lc barrels anymore that could rechamber. Someone correct me if Im wrong about that. Wont be a compliment to any handgun, just a stand alone mini(or maxi...however you wanna look at it

)-thumper so that wont be a consideration in caliber choice.

Default_Required · « **Reply #5 on:** April 22, 2010, 08:47:07 PM »

Jason , The 500 would do just about anything you could ever need any rifle to do on ANY continent .

With the 500 S&W loaded properly with a 500gr slug, elephant falls on the menu of what this round is capable of out of a rifle, I know I have already seen the pics and the stories of those that have used it in a pistol on cape buffalo.

Though as was mentioned for cost effectiveness the 44 mag would sure handle alot if not all tasks you could ask of a truck gun.

jason045 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 23, 2010, 03:48:27 AM »

I checked midway and they have new nickel plated starline brass for 60 bucks a hundred. Considering 8-10 reloadings this price doesent scare me at all. Those 100 would last me years. And cast performance 500gr LFNGC for 30 bucks for 50. Would it be reasonable to expect 1500 fps from a 500 grainer with the short barrel? I read an article once where they tested a 500 handi with a 22" barrel and the numbers were impressive. 400gr JFN @ 2035fps and a 440gr cast @ 1925fps. Wonder what difference 5 1/2 inches less barrel will make.

bikerbeans · « **Reply #7 on:** April 23, 2010, 04:10:10 AM »

Jason,

No help on the 500 but I just cut down a 45/70, 22" to 18.5". Did it myself, spent 2 weeks reading the FAQs and then took only about 45 minutes to complete the project, including the recrown. No chrono yet, but shooting the same cast lead (520 grn postells) it is more accurate (< 100 yds) than before I bobbed it. Looks good with the straight stock vice the pistol grip. Look forward to pics and range reports when you finish your project.

BB

petemi · « **Reply #8 on:** April 23, 2010, 04:17:08 AM »

I've posted this pic before, but this is what I did with one of my .357 Maxis to make a farm truck gun. I'd rather have had open sights on it, but I need the red dot because of my bad eye.

Pete

canon6 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 23, 2010, 04:56:22 AM »

My short 357 Maxi I cut the barrel to 18 inches. I am getting north of 2100 fpr with a 187gr fngc. Total lenght of 37 inches Doug

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** April 23, 2010, 04:58:30 AM »

Look at Hodgdon 500S&W data from a 10" barrel, it almost makes 1500fps w/500gr bullets, so a 16" barrel definitely would.

Tim

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

bilmac · « **Reply #11 on:** April 23, 2010, 05:15:08 AM »

I would think that a 45-70 and probably the 500 would hurt when you pulled the trigger. Why would you want to do that? 357 max would take your hogs and whitetails. Plus I would have a bag of 38s to throw at targets like tin cans when the day is just too nice to keep your nose to the grindstone. I bet you wouldn't do much plinking with a 45-70.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #12 on:** April 23, 2010, 05:34:30 AM »

I think the .38 Spl, .360 DW, .357 Mag, .357 Max is just about the most versatile chambering for the area I live (New England). That said it would be hard to beat a truck gun in 30-30 Winchester, and I would really like a .41 Mag to match a nice S&W revolver I have as well. Overall the .357 bored out to Max, or a 30-30, would be the ticket. Another thought that comes to mind is a nice lightwieght short barreled .223 with good ammo, something other than 55 grain FMJ's, but they are hard to beat for fun economical shooting....<><....

jason045 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 23, 2010, 05:41:17 AM »

What can I say. Im a glutton for punishment. You might say I almost enjoy recoil. Ive always been a fan large diameter heave bullets vs. the newest super 3500fps whizz banger. On a side note, I just got back from my dealer. His distributor finally got some 357 handis in and got me one coming for 216 plus tax. This one is the 18" barreled one. This will be my boys first centerfire rifle. He will get it next month for his birthday when he turns nine.

Kal52 · « **Reply #14 on:** April 23, 2010, 05:45:12 AM »

I dont own a handi in .357 yet, but I have alot of other handguns and a rifle in it.
If you maxxed it out, It would be good from squirrel (38 wadcutter) to deer (mag or max) Ive not hunted hogs so dont have anything to say there.

I also like the .44, own one and love it, plus you can load it down (44specials ?), factory fodder is reasonable and it wont kill on both ends.

Ultimately its your call, but I chose a 30-30 cheap, and Ive head shot cottontails, still had enough for the grill

squirrels arent on this ones menu though I dont think.
Good luck! This is the best thing about these guns, if your project turns into something you dont like, you can easily get rid of it and start over!

Dave

44 Man · « **Reply #15 on:** April 23, 2010, 05:45:38 AM »

I just have to say that I would go with a pistol round for that one. .44 mag or .45 colt would be just the ticket. I already have the SB2 frame and shortened stocks, all I need is a barrel to cut. 44 Man

jason045 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 23, 2010, 06:09:20 AM »

Im with ya on the pistol round. Just really like the idea of the uberpowerful 500 in a 31-32" package. I also saw some loading data for it for 350gr cast @ 950fps. Just the ticket for paper punching.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #17 on:** April 23, 2010, 06:47:48 AM »

Jason, I have a 1870 Snider .577 Cavalry Carbine that is very much like what you propose. That thumb sized cartridge is something to look at and has taken large and dangerous game world wide. I shoot black powder, of course, in respect for the aged metalurgy and design.
To get the proportions you desire consider the forestock for a youth shotgun, they are shorter than normal and were resonably priced. Maybe the youth buttstock c/w recoil pad too, but I would be wary of my thumb busting me in the mouth with that chambering! With the youth buttstock you could still add a slip-on, etc. recoil pad for a double up and at some point straight 'hand' the wrist if you like that look.
After years of loading straight walled cartridges I think you will probably settle on a few 'bruisers' for serious business and mostly downloads for fun. Your brass will probably last a lot longer than 10 reloadings.

Dweezil · « **Reply #18 on:** April 23, 2010, 09:07:16 AM »

I'd go with a .357 or a 45LC. Lots of options with either of those.

bikerbeans · « **Reply #19 on:** April 23, 2010, 09:54:44 AM »

Jason,

For you 500 S&W Hodgdon has data for Trail Boss for a 440 grain lead slug in the 650 to 800 FPS range. You could load a 500 grain lead bullet in the same range and have a very light paper puncher.

BB

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #20 on:** April 23, 2010, 10:21:33 AM »

Of the two I would say 45-70.
When I was part of a shooting fair we had marlin rifles and the IMI BFR revolvers in 45-70 in the booth.
The 300 grain ammo that kicked out of the guide rifle did not really kick out of the revolver.
the 405 cowboy loads that did not kick out of the rifle really kicked out of the revolver.
I think it had more to do with the propellant than the bullet weight.
I have a Ruger No 3 with a 20" that is pretty much waht you want the gun to do. But the 45-70 limits me to about 150 yards.
If I were to either build one I would look at 308 Win, 30-40 Krag, 30-06, and use the 180 grain round nose bullets or 35 Rem and use the 200 grain bullets. Giving me a little more reach but still good knock down power with the round nose bullets.
As others have said 44 Mag would be a good choice too but like the 45-70 would limit your range to about 150 yards.

jason045 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 02, 2010, 07:09:56 PM »

Well came down to what I got the best deal on and the .500 won out ($229+tax). It is in hand. Barrel is on the way to my dad for cut/crown drill/tap. Just won a leupold m8 2.5x scout scope on gunbroker tonight. This project is well on its way! Looking for synthetic youth stock set still. May have to just buy from H&R. Hope to get some pics up when my barrel gets back and I put it all together.

Spanky · « **Reply #22 on:** May 02, 2010, 07:23:48 PM »

Check Choate's site for the stocks. I bought a set of adult synthetics and it only cost me $60 shipped. I had the set in 2 days.

Spanky

jason045 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 03, 2010, 02:45:58 PM »

So I sent the .500 barrel to my pops for cut/crown drill/tap, I sent the .357 barrel from my sons handi to be cut as well cause I thought it a bit heavy for him. I called and told him what I was wanting to do and how heavy the .357 was and he asks do I want it turned down. Didnt think the forend would match back up right so I told him no. So he asks me do I want it fluted and I say heck yeah. I think that'll make a pretty slick, lightweight rig. Anyone else here try to flute a factory barrel?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #24 on:** May 03, 2010, 03:32:30 PM »

I thought about it, I even bought a ball end mill, but after more thought, decided it wouldn't be easy on a mini-mill, trying to index each flute so they were even on a tapered barrel just sounded too much like a good way to ruin a good barrel, so I never tried it. But with a full size mill with the right tooling it would be easy I would think.

Tim

Gallahad · « **Reply #25 on:** May 03, 2010, 03:40:01 PM »

speaking of thumpers,

I used to dream of loading BRASS shotgun hulls with one of the new plastic tipped slugs, of course with some sort of wad making the slug stick out past the rim of the hull. Giant straightwall case looking shell!!! It's still a dream, i'm sure I would have blown myself up if I would have tried it, as I have very little shotshell loading savy. Always wondered if it was possible? Sure wold look cool!

jason045 · « **Reply #26 on:** May 03, 2010, 04:11:16 PM »

Well if you like BIG brass shotgun shells you gotta check out this thread [url]http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,79991.0.html/[url]
Some unbelievable ballistics there. 730gr slugs @ 2700 fps and 3/4 oz sabots @ 3900fps!

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #27 on:** May 03, 2010, 06:14:15 PM »

20ga will do the same as the 500 maybe better. kurt

geezer56 · « **Reply #28 on:** May 04, 2010, 02:39:09 PM »

I just got through assembling my second short rifle project. I traded for a 308 barrel that had been cut off to about 16 inches, not too professional a job. Hacksawed off and rat tail filed on the inside to remove the burrs, end was way crooked. Faced her off, 11 deg crown, slight bevel to remove the last of the file marks. It finished off at 16.060 inches. Added a youth pallet wood stock, and a Huntsman forend. The barrel is only about an inch past the sling swivel in the end of the forearm. When slung over the back, nothing sticks up to hang on the shrubbery. I usually hunt in a thicket somewhere, so long range isn't necessary. Light and easy to carry is better than FPS. I have an old 3X9 Weaver scope on it, a good old USA model. We'll see how she does here in a few days. I plan on using cast bullets only in this one, we'll see how that works out.

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #29 on:** May 04, 2010, 04:32:11 PM »

Man, I bet that thing is gonna BARK! DP