Author Topic: Springfield GI 1911 Misfires (Read 3242 times)

BluDino · « **on:** April 23, 2010, 04:28:01 PM »

OK folks, a little advice from you old timers. My Springfield 1911 GI misfires once out of about 10 or 15 rounds. The firing pin hits the primer but not hard enough to cause ignition. All other times it seems to fire just fine, just sometimes the pin does not hit hard enough. When it fires it has a nice deep dent where the firing pin hit the primer but when it misfires there is a light dent. What's up with that?

williamlayton · « **Reply #1 on:** April 24, 2010, 02:49:24 AM »

The quick answer--though it may not be the fix--is a good cleaning and a new spring.
I--just me---would change the FP and spring.
I would also take a look at the FP block/Swartz safety if it has one---I am not sure if it does.
Blessings

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #2 on:** April 24, 2010, 03:05:04 AM »

I agree with williamlayton but will add this. My self defense guns are all loaded with ammo using federal primers. they require a lighter firing pin hit and in that way are more reliable. What kind of ammo are your using. If its factory i kind of steer clear of speer ammo because its loaded with cci primers and there about the hardest to get to go off. Now that been said its kind of a bandaid for you as a good 1911 should light off about any ammo reliably and if it doesnt theres a gun problem. do like was recomended and change the spring and pin and if that doesnt cure it send it back to springfield.

mdi · « **Reply #3 on:** April 24, 2010, 07:01:18 AM »

Are you shooting factory ammo or reloads? If factory ammo, look at your gun for problems and if reloads, look at your primer seating.

JeffG · « **Reply #4 on:** April 24, 2010, 09:37:18 AM »

williamlayton is spot-on. Good luck.

1911crazy · « **Reply #5 on:** April 24, 2010, 02:48:49 PM »

Is this the newer GI springer with the key safety??? Made in brazil? I have one but i haven't fired it yet. But you need to look at all of it.

To me the best large pistol primers have been the winchester primers. They can be used in magnum loads as well as regular loads. I use them in my 45acp and my 44mag. Right now with them being harder to get, i just tried the wolf large pistol primers for my target rounds. I still have 1k of the hotter winchester primers for better ignition in cold weather.

BluDino · « **Reply #6 on:** April 24, 2010, 03:47:29 PM »

Thanks for all the advice.
The pistol is a new Springfield with the key safety made in Brazil and I don't reload for the .45 ACP so all the ammo I shoot is factory but, having said that, it doesn't appear to matter what brand I fire, they all do it from time to time. Winchester, Federal, and Blazer.
I should have mentioned that I had the trigger lightened and it works great, say 3-5 pounds pull but I didn't think that would have caused this problem. Was I thinking wrong there? I am not a gunsmith and really don't know the internal workings of a 1911. A good cleaning does seem to help but the problem always shows back up.
Once again, thanks, guys.

gray-wolf · « **Reply #7 on:** April 29, 2010, 04:34:49 AM »

Trigger Job?
Sometimes people who do trigger jobs change out the main spring, for a softer trigger pull.
The one in the grip--not the recoil spring. It should be 23 pounds in I recall.
A lighter main spring could lesson the hit on the primer, also check for any burrs on the firing pin or the tunnel it rides in, check that the spring for the fire-ing pin does not bind on the pin.
How was it before the trigger job ?

williamlayton · « **Reply #8 on:** April 29, 2010, 09:46:59 AM »

Interesting--I have some thoughts.
Perhaps Dee and Mikey have some thoughts.
I would like too listen in----I am not a Smith, but, I support one

.
Blessings

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 09, 2010, 04:31:39 PM »

Detail strip and clean first. That doesn't cost much and it is amazing how many problems it can cure. If that does not fix the problem, continue with WillBill's recomendation.

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 09, 2010, 04:32:40 PM »

Quote from: williamlayton on April 24, 2010, 02:49:24 AM

I would also take a look at the FP block/Swartz safety if it has one---I am not sure if it does.
Blessings

Does not have one Willem.

Mikey · « **Reply #11 on:** May 10, 2010, 01:29:43 AM »

I would find out what the gunsmith 'did' when he lightened up the trigger pull. If indeed he replaced the mainspring, or cut it back a few coils, to lighten the trigger pull then you should replace the mainspring with one of the appropriate tension weight.

If that gunsmith removed, or cut back on the main spring, and if he does not have another factory original hanging around, you can get one from Wolff Springs in Ardmore, PA; but watch out when you replace it as it is a 'captured' spring that has a tendency to fly across the room and hide itself in the least most visible places when it lands, unless it gets hung up in a curtain or something. I believe I have at least a few of them hidden in some dark recess somewhere that never seee the light of day unless I find them during one of my cleaning frenzies that happen about once every 4 or 5 years......

I would also check for dirt or sludge buildup in the firing pin channel and for burrs on either the firing pin or somewhere in the channel.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #12 on:** May 10, 2010, 03:16:18 AM »

Try a cleaning of the gun and the fireing pin spring may have grease or trash around it . The hammer spring may have been bent in the trigger job also , try a new one to see they cost little .

NickSS · « **Reply #13 on:** June 14, 2010, 10:16:03 AM »

because it happens infrequently and most of the time you have a good dent in the primer I think your problem is something that is in the way of the firing pin and nothing to do with springs etc. I would pull the firing pin, and spring and look for junk, burs and anything that might cause a hangup. If that does not do it send it back to Springfield for correction.

rbwillnj · « **Reply #14 on:** June 14, 2010, 04:25:35 PM »

Interesting. A very uncommon problem for a 1911.

I have done a lot of trigger jobs on 1911's and have never touched the hammer spring. It just isn't necessary. That's not to say your gunsmith didn't change the hammer spring.

On DA/SA guns like the Beretta 92, it's common to go to a ligter hammer spring when doing a trigger job. It helps in both Double action and single action mode, but it often results in the need to switch to Federal primers to assure consistent ignition.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #15 on:** June 15, 2010, 05:58:21 AM »

I have seen the springs bent not to improve trigger pull but due to rough handling while working on the gun .

pneuby · « **Reply #16 on:** June 16, 2010, 11:45:41 AM »

Since you're using a variety of factory fodder, & you mentioned trigger work, the mainspring was indeed my first reaction.
Ask your 'smith if he went with a lighter one. Next, did he measure the overall length (OAL) of the firing-pin?
If he did, and it's in spec, that's not the case.

What happened to me with a new Kahr .45 took a couple trips back to the factory to solve. It was the very same issure you're having. They finally found that it the chamber was cut too deeply. The firing-pin strike lost energy in driving the whole round deeper into the chamber. Not every time, but just enough to cause those odd ones, like that.

williamlayton · « **Reply #17 on:** June 17, 2010, 04:10:48 AM »

PN
That is an interesting conversation.
I have not come across any good 1911's with this problem, from the factory.
That does not mean it cannot happen--but that is just not a problem I have heard of from Colt, Kimber, Kahr, Springfield or others of the ilk.
I would like to hear from any other who have found this concern.
That would be a serious quality concern if it was.
Now the Springfield comes from Brazil---which is NOT an accusation of inferiority. If it is a problem in this one, it should be a problem of a reaccuring nature.
If I were to bet on odds it would be in the fireng pin, not the spring--but the spring would certainly be a good second choice.
I have not experienced a problem with either the FP block or the Swartze system but I have heard of this form others.
Personally, the Smith I have been using for the last number of years, will not remove the series 80 safety--but he does a magic on it and the grip safety that is truely remarkable. I have had problems, on occasion, with a high grip and and the grip safety.
That might be an area to look at also--though it would seem slim.
Blessings

jimster · « **Reply #18 on:** June 17, 2010, 12:59:50 PM »

Quote

Ask your 'smith if he went with a lighter one.

Very first place I would start is there. Ask him if he used a different main spring or cut coils off that one. Springfields have an ILS system in the main spring housing, the main spring is NOT the same length as a stock 1911, and there is another part in the MSH that is NOT the same as well.
After you ask exactly what the smith did, you might be one step ahead. I do not know if your pistol worked before you had it worked on, you did not say, but the clue is someone did work on it.

The Springfield has a different length main spring, and it's more pounds than a regular 1911 Colt type, it also has a lightweight firing pin that works with the stock heavy mainspring. It won't hurt to call and ask what they did to lighten the trigger pull. I replaced all the parts in the MSH of my mil-spec with GI parts, and put in a heavier firing pin that works with a regular length 23 lbs mainspring.
If the smith did nothing to the spring, at least you can rule that out and move on to the next thing.

1911crazy · « **Reply #19 on:** June 18, 2010, 02:36:46 PM »

I put moly on the sear and it will lessen the trigger pull by up to 50% right away and more as it works in. I do nothing to the spring as we can lose the reliabity. I use moly on the sears in all my guns. Even on the bolt actions were the sears mate. Save your $$ on an expesnive trigger job and get yourself a can of moly at the cost of just $25 you can do up all your guns.

Savage · « **Reply #20 on:** June 19, 2010, 01:32:32 AM »

I'd take it straight back to the smith who did the trigger work. I'm sure he'd like to have a satisfied customer.
Savage

Mikey · « **Reply #21 on:** June 19, 2010, 02:24:25 AM »

BluDino: First, I agree with Savage, as I mentioned previously to take it back to the smith who worked on the pistol. 2nd, I also agree with Williamlayton (that handsome devil) that it is probably the firing pin.

I do not agree with jmster that the Springfield has a different length mainspring - the mainspring is the spring that is captured in the mainspring housing - the Springfield might be of heavier tension weight than the Colt and hence a tad longer but both your Springer 1911 GI and the standard Colt 1911 are the same things, mil-spec pistols made for the civilian market and everything about them, except a custom part or two, is mil-spec.

If your pistol fails to detonate a cartridge one out of every 14 or 15 times I am going back to a earlier thought that the problem could easily be your firing pin; think of one proper length that detonates each and every cartridge, then think of one just long enough to detonate most of your cartridges under normal impact but just a hair shorter so that every once in a while or with a hard primer, it may not strike the primer hard enough to detonate the cartridge. There is a reason company and battalion sized units had armorers who's 1911 parts kits included spare firing pins, springs, slide safeties, etc., so that when a pistol or rifle began screwing up at the range the parts wold be changed out right there auntil the problem was fixed. Firing pins are inexpensive and you do not need anything Titanium or lightweight - just get a couple of mil-spec firing pins and swap one out. jmtcw.

jake2454 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 19, 2010, 10:36:50 AM »

It is true that on some of the lighter pull trigger jobs some smiths will put in a lighter mainspring or cut a few coils off of the exisiting one in addition to adjusting the sear spring which i would not advise. i myself bought a jig for re-shaping the sear and put in a mainspring that was 1# lighter. That was about 2 years ago and i have not had any problems. the only thing i would add is to really scrub the fining pin channel good with solvent in the event that powder residue has formed in it.

rbwillnj · « **Reply #23 on:** June 19, 2010, 10:43:41 AM »

Mickey,

Actually, jmster is correct. The main spring in the Mil Spec, and probably all other Springfields is acutally 1/2" shorter than the standard mil-spec spring. This is because Springfield uses that stupid key lock in the mainspring housing. They redesigned the mainspring cap to work in conjuntion with the key lock, and that required the use of a shorter mainspring. I searched my parts drawer and found a Springfield assembly I had removed from a Mil-Spec, and compared it with a standard assembly to confirm the difference. I'm pretty sure there is a difference in the hammer spur as well, but I couldn't find the Springfield hammer spur to compare with the mil-spec version. The problem arrises if you mix and match springfield parts with mil-spec parts.

Yes, I know Mil-Spec is supposed to be mil-spec, but no GI gun ever had a key lock.

I have encountered this issue in the past, but had totally forgotten about it until I read your post. I have a Springfield Mil-Spec which comes with an arched mainspring housing. I like flat mainspring housings, so I replace the arched one with a flat one that I had. I know that I had to swap out the hammer spur, mainspring and mainspring cap before everything fit and worked the way it should.

Mikey · « **Reply #24 on:** June 19, 2010, 03:53:55 PM »

jmster: you are correct. Apologies for the disagreement.

rb: that sounds like a pita problem to encounter just to switch out the mainspring housing. I did not encounter that problem on my Springfield as it is a earlier pistol. Thanks for the information.

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #25 on:** June 19, 2010, 06:19:57 PM »

If it won't fire reliably, get rid of it. Don't fool around with fixes. Get one that works.

williamlayton · « **Reply #26 on:** June 20, 2010, 02:47:56 AM »

Can't one remove the key lock and circumvent the assorted problems it seems too cause.
I do know that the key lock mechanism can be removed from S&W revolvers.
Sounds like Springfield created problems to provide a fix for something that was not broken.
Enigneers, drinking too much coffee with time on their hands.

With apologies too all Engineers on board here.

Blessings

jimster · « **Reply #27 on:** June 22, 2010, 05:00:02 AM »

Quote

jmster: you are correct. Apologies for the disagreement.

No appoligies needed at all....I found this out the hard way when playing with the ILS system. While playing around I tried cutting off a coil or two off the short hammer spring to get the heavy lbs down, and found this caused the spring to be way underpowered, it's pretty short and stiff.

Quote

Can't one remove the key lock and circumvent the assorted problems it seems too cause.

Yep, you can actually put all regular GI parts in the MSH, add the retaining pin that regular gi mil-specs all have and the ILS models do not have. Most people just buy another MSH that does not have the extra hole there for the key lock cause it's looks better. As rbwillnj pointed out, mainspring cap is different as well with the ILS system. This ILS design needs a take down pin to take things apart, where the regular GI models already have a retaining pin in there that captures the cap full time.

I was thinking, if someone tried to lighten the trigger pull on this one, just ask what it was they did.
The stock short mainspring on the ILS system is at least 29 lbs...it hits hard. But if you shorten it very much at all to try to ease the trigger pull, there isn't enough length to hit hard enough.

For just a few bucks you could order an ED Brown pin and spring set, it has all the stock stuff that goes in a stock MSH, proper cap, 23 lbs spring, retaining pin, plus a bunch of other stuff. The 23 lbs hammer spring was enough to fire mine even with the light firing pin, although I have changed to a heavier FP since.

Or you could send it to SA...they have good customer service and will fix it. Not sure what the charge is if they can tell someone did a "trigger" job to it...but they are very nice people there.

Still wondering what they did to give you a trigger job.?

williamlayton · « **Reply #28 on:** June 22, 2010, 06:53:05 AM »

My mind--I really have no mind, well I do but I put it up somewhere--keeps going back to the irreularity of the occurances.
Something has to be operating in an irregular manner.
I cannot get my mind past the fireing pin--be it the length or a binding.
A fireing pin does not have to be noticeable in shortness to be ocassionable unable to detonate--just maybe in a bind enough to not function from time too time.
My head hurts from this conversation.
take it back too the Smith and tell us what he says------PLEASE.
Blessings

Merle · « **Reply #29 on:** August 06, 2010, 03:05:59 PM »

Quote from: pneuby on June 16, 2010, 11:45:41 AM

They finally found that it the chamber was cut too deeply. The firing-pin strike lost energy in driving the whole round deeper into the chamber. Not every time, but just enough to cause those odd ones, like that.

Which would really show up when those shorter-than-average cases hit the chamber. I've noticed that nearly all of the new brass I buy these days is at (or sometime below) the minimum length. I'm pretty sure it is the same with loaded ammo, but have not checked.