Author Topic: Gun Jams-Was it the lubricant or maintenance  (Read 429 times)

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Offline Robert357

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Gun Jams-Was it the lubricant or maintenance
« on: November 19, 2003, 06:31:13 AM »
Since the other post is now locked, I thought I would try to refocus the thread a little.

There is an interesting story out that indicates that there were problems with sand and that a particular lubricant may have contributed to the problems.  Obviously, front line troops probably clean for their firearms more religously than support troops, as the tooth of the tiger obviously needs to be sharp and ready.

Things like cleaning rifles, digging fox holes, and filling sandbags can either  be viewed as "busy work" or as self preservation.

While I really don't trust newspaper reporters and feel that TV journalists are an even more dishonest group, the following is provided for your reading:

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/news/investigators/wabc_investigators_111803gunlube.html

Maybe we can discuss military bureaucracy like saying certain firearms don't need to be cleaned or not quickly adapting to changing situations.

Then again, it might just be a whole different kind of problem......
http://boards.go.com/cgi/WABC/request.dll?MESSAGE&room=News5&id=40

Offline savageT

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Gun Jams-Was it the lubricant or maintenanc
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2003, 05:48:14 AM »
Thanks Robert!
I know the furor over CLP in M16's will eventually come to a head when the Senate will hold one of their investigative witch hunts.  Let's pray Militec is the answer or dry lube like graphite will keep the weapons working freely.  However......... someone once designed another weapon  that "Takes a Lickin' and Keeps on Tickin" w/o special lubrication!  Maybe this will knock some sense into those Army bureaucrats????

Jim
savageT........Have you hugged a '99 lately?

Of all the things I've lost in my life, I miss my mind the most.

Offline Mikey

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Gun jams, Lube or maintenance
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2003, 10:13:11 AM »
Robert357 and SavageT - guys those are some interesting tales from the link Robert provided.

I have wondered why these problems always seem to surface in sandy climates.  I am reminded that the P08 Luger was turned down by the military after horse soldiers testing them in the desert over lubricated them and they jammed consistently as a result.  The instruction manuals said not to lubricate them - go figger.

With the problem of the CLP attracting dirt, and the fairly close tolerances in the M-16s 9 lug bolt (if that's what it still uses) I can understand where the problems would come from.  I forget what we used in RVN with the first run of 16s, but I still have a bunch of that stuff home and use it as general purpose lube.  I still recall that if you properly maintained your 16 it would work - caliber didn't do too well but the rifle would function.  You had to keep that chamber clean and the bolt free of debris or you got skunked.  Unbfortunately, they got dirty quickly and required frequent cleaning.

I know our 16s are accurate, but so are many other battle rifles, and I just don't understand why the Pentagon continually repeats the mistakes of the past.  The Ak always seemed to be 'handier' and even when rusted shut could be kicked open into full working order with a boot heel.  The 7.62 round seemed to hit harder, too.  I don't know, I believe in American made products and had hoped the 3rd generation of 16s were more reliable than ours were, but I think we should be able to do better for our troops.  Just another dos centavos.  Mikey.

Offline bryan

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Gun Jams-Was it the lubricant or maintenanc
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2003, 06:29:19 PM »
I was thinking of a topic on this same line when I was logging in.LOL. I now when we went to the range I used very little CLP, and then it was just on the bolt. I had a few problems with double feeds, and I think that was from wore out magazines, and they were destroyed and replaced with new ones. Most of the jams when locking and loading are from riding the bolt home, it slows the bolt down and doesn't let it lock, and if there is dirt and sand it will make that much worse.
I have a buddy that fought in Iraq, I will email him and find out what they used, and will post as soon as I find out. I got a lot of letters from him and shipped alot of stuff, henever asked for and lubricant.

ENGINEERS UP!
Bryan

Offline bryan

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Gun Jams-Was it the lubricant or maintenanc
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2003, 06:44:13 PM »
Got a line back from my buddy. He said all they used was CLP as always. He said they cleaned there weapons everyday and didn't have any problems. Maybe it not what they are cleaning them with but the method they they are using to clean them. How much CLP are they leaving on there bolts? No two people have the same standard of CLEAN?
Bryan