Author Topic: switching from metal to plastic containers by powder companies?  (Read 2370 times)

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Offline CIG

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Just bought a new 8lb jug of IMR 4064 and it's plastic, like they all seem to be.  Is storage in plastic any better or worse than the original metal cans it used to come in?  I can certainly transfer this new powder into the old can if it stores better.  It will have the same label, so no confusion there.  Just wondering if anyone knew if one has an advantage over the other. 

Offline necchi

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Re: switching from metal to plastic containers by powder companies?
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2010, 06:37:05 PM »
The plastic won't rust  ;D
 
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Offline Siskiyou

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Re: switching from metal to plastic containers by powder companies?
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2010, 06:38:24 PM »
necchi +1 ;D
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Offline Dand

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Re: switching from metal to plastic containers by powder companies?
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2010, 07:44:54 PM »
They are quiet and don't dent as easy either.
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Offline CIG

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Re: switching from metal to plastic containers by powder companies?
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2010, 08:43:26 AM »
I guess that means the consesus is they changed to plastic because it's just a better storage container with no down sides.  Thanks. 

Offline PawPaw

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Re: switching from metal to plastic containers by powder companies?
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2010, 09:10:21 AM »
The change was probably a cost issue.  Powder companies, like all companies, are in business to make money.  One way of making money is containing costs.

Offline RWK

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Re: switching from metal to plastic containers by powder companies?
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2010, 09:45:06 AM »
They can't get the steel there no steel manu. in the USA!!! all over seas.

Offline Swampman

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Re: switching from metal to plastic containers by powder companies?
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2010, 10:24:53 AM »
I don't like the plastic containers.  I try to avoid them.
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Offline stimpylu32

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Re: switching from metal to plastic containers by powder companies?
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2010, 10:28:50 AM »
The plastic came about for a few reasons , its cheaper to make , it doesn't rust , it gives better UV protection and it fills the new Haz Mat requirements better , well you get the idea .

No real down side to it as far as I can see , and when your done with them , wash them well , drill a 1" hole in the side and you have a nice little hanging bird house .  ;D

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Offline wncchester

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Re: switching from metal to plastic containers by powder companies?
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2010, 10:54:25 AM »
Smokeless powder reacts with some plastics (check the discolored "clear" plastic hoppers on most powder measures) but I'm confident the makers have choosen a plastic that is harmless to the powder so it doesn't matter to me.
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Offline LaOtto222

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Re: switching from metal to plastic containers by powder companies?
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2010, 01:12:12 PM »
Personally, I welcome the change. I think long term storage is going to be better. Most have a wide mouth or least bigger than what the old metal container had, so it makes it easier to pour unused powder back in. I threw out about 5 pounds of old powder because it had rust on the inside of the container. Here is another use for a 1 pound powder bottle - I store bulk bullets. I just tore off the old label and made a new one with all the particulars of the bullet.
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Offline cybin

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Re: switching from metal to plastic containers by powder companies?
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2010, 07:16:32 PM »
The jury is still out on whether or not the plactic is better than the metal cans IMO. Plastic containers for powder hasn't been around for 30 years like the metal containers--I know that the metal containers work for long periods of time. The wide mouth is appreciated for returning powder to the container though.

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Offline Blackhawker

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Re: switching from metal to plastic containers by powder companies?
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2010, 09:04:04 PM »
I do not know if this is true of smokeless powders or their components but I DO know that some organic compounds form peroxides over time.  Many of these organic peroxides are contact explosives and will burn/ignite/explode upon the slightest of movement or friction, such as metal against metal when a cap is unscrewed.  It may be likely that the powder companies moved to plastic to lessen probability of such safety hazards.  ???

Offline Flash

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Re: switching from metal to plastic containers by powder companies?
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2010, 02:41:07 AM »
I actually prefer the plastic myself but a word of caution to all who save the containers. DO NOT place black powder or it's substitutes in the plastic bottles due to static electricity.
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Offline anweis

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Re: switching from metal to plastic containers by powder companies?
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2010, 03:28:05 AM »
I actually prefer the plastic myself but a word of caution to all who save the containers. DO NOT place black powder or it's substitutes in the plastic bottles due to static electricity.

But 777 and Blackhorn 209 are sold in plastic? Perhaps you are right in respect to real black powder?

Offline FourBee

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Re: switching from metal to plastic containers by powder companies?
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2010, 03:37:03 AM »
I actually prefer the plastic myself but a word of caution to all who save the containers. DO NOT place black powder or it's substitutes in the plastic bottles due to static electricity.

I have at least 2 brands of real Black Powder that came in the plastic cans.  Probably a non-static material or they wouldn't have packaged it like that.  ;D

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Online Lloyd Smale

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Re: switching from metal to plastic containers by powder companies?
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2010, 04:18:12 AM »
where to you find powder any other way anymore.
I don't like the plastic containers.  I try to avoid them.
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Offline gypsyman

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Re: switching from metal to plastic containers by powder companies?
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2010, 01:23:42 PM »
Notice all the gasoline containers are plastic now. Don't think they draw the moisture like a steel can. I've taken several of the 4# jugs, and cut down the sides, and leave the handle's on them. Make dandy scoops for dog or chicken food.(make sure you wash them out first!!Those eggs might pop alittle louder in the frying pan.)gypsyman
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Offline mechanic

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Re: switching from metal to plastic containers by powder companies?
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2010, 01:28:25 PM »
I've still got plenty of powder in waxed cardboard containers.  Some of it is over 30 years old and it's still fine.  I've got some metal cans as well....still ok.  And I like the new plastic, because you can get a screw on "funnel mouth" that makes it easy to dispense and use.  If the cardboard lasts as long as it does, the plastic should last longer....at least I hope so........ :D
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Offline Bullseye

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Re: switching from metal to plastic containers by powder companies?
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2010, 06:21:21 PM »
I use almost all IMR powders and still like the old metal cans.  They seem to fit better on a shelf.  I have a metal can for each powder I use and when it is empty I fill it back up with powder from a plastic container.

Offline Blackhawker

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Re: switching from metal to plastic containers by powder companies?
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2010, 03:53:54 AM »
I don't know if anyone thought of this yet but another reason why EVERYONE (powders, soft drinks, etc) went to plastic:  IT'S CHEAP!! 

Offline goodconcretecolor

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Re: switching from metal to plastic containers by powder companies?
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2010, 04:26:41 PM »
Notice how most if not all of the plastic containers are black. I bet the plastic compound is filled with conductive carbon black to fight static. I use to do some work in conductive coatings and that was how we did it. Still, to err on the side of safety, I would never transfer any powder from a metal container to a plastic one but I see nothing with the reverse if that is your preference. Waxed cardboard may have some static problems though.

Offline necchi

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Re: switching from metal to plastic containers by powder companies?
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2010, 05:43:09 PM »
 It's not that complicated at all, I work in the plastic industry. Our products are primarily medical application, fluid collection, disposible surgical and post surgery products. We do make items for tank liners uptoo .1875 thick and other porduct as thin as .004.
 I'm a batch blender, my job is to mix the raw components in precise recipies to customer orders, the products I mix determines the final properties, a half pound in a 1200# batch CAN change plastic characteristics. Our Medium size shop mixes and uses 65,000# in 24hrs, 5 days a week.
 We don't blow mold bottles, but PVC is PVC. It's black because it's cheapest, re-grind or used product of any color can be mixed and made black easiest, no mystery there. That's 6th grade Art Class and primary colors, black is black.
 Anti-static to National ISO2009 spec is easy, it's a simple alkyly compound added at about 4# per ton. They've used it for decades.
 They use black plastic bottles because it's cheap, air tight and water tight, If they where worrried about metal to plastic contact they wouldn't put a metal cap on the plastic jug..
 Static discharge ingniting powders, even sensitive black powder, is a myth.

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Offline FourBee

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Re: switching from metal to plastic containers by powder companies?
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2010, 06:39:20 PM »
necchi; that's a good post you made.  :D   Especially " Static discharge ingniting powders, even sensitive black powder, is a myth. "  That is true, but like many things that have been passed on down thru the ages to be fact, when really it's myth, is pretty much cut in stone, and it'll stay that way.  ???

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Offline Land_Owner

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Re: switching from metal to plastic containers by powder companies?
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2010, 02:27:36 AM »
It is especially poignant when our Members sound off in the areas about which they are the EXPERT.  Nice post necchi.  When there are questions and Resident Experts that give us the straight skinny, well, it just doesnt get any better than that.

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: switching from metal to plastic containers by powder companies?
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2010, 06:26:02 AM »
necchi:  Outstanding post.  I am linking it to some of my reloading friends.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: switching from metal to plastic containers by powder companies?
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2010, 08:29:59 AM »
The only down side might be static elec. but that might not be that big of a problem
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: switching from metal to plastic containers by powder companies?
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2010, 09:24:19 AM »
I was going to say there had to be a myth about static igniting the Black Powder subs, since I have been getting Pyrodex since the early 90s in Plastic containers.  Triple Seven has always came in plastic, as has all the others.  In my opinion there is several good reasons and necchi hit them all.  I'm waiting for WD-40 to come in a plastic spray bottle.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: switching from metal to plastic containers by powder companies?
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2010, 09:54:42 AM »
It does . with a pump spray .
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Offline necchi

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Re: switching from metal to plastic containers by powder companies?
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2010, 04:32:00 PM »
I've been looking for this link for ahwile,,It has to do with static electricity and Black powder,,good pictures. Black is much more sensitive than most modern nitrate that I know of

Hope this helps dispell the myth, I know some still won't belieb it but take a look anyhows  ;D

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/sparks/sparks.html
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