Ariz. passes wetback bill while Calif legalizes dope.

[bilmac]

Interesting juxtaposition of stories. Interesting reactions. As I type some idiot is on the tube making some awfully contorted spin about why Az is wrong.

[dukkillr]

I like freedom, limited government intrusion, sovereign borders, the rule of law, and individual responsibility.  Accordingly, I like both laws.  I hope other states follow both leads.

[nw_hunter]

I like freedom, limited government intrusion, sovereign borders, the rule of law, and individual responsibility.  Accordingly, I like both laws.  I hope other states follow both leads.

"ME TOO" I like the same things, which is why I prob. won't be voting Democrat or Republican in the next general election.

[dukkillr]

I like freedom, limited government intrusion, sovereign borders, the rule of law, and individual responsibility.  Accordingly, I like both laws.  I hope other states follow both leads.

"ME TOO" I like the same things, which is why I prob. won't be voting Democrat or Republican in the next general election.

Ok, but lets not start another thread on the lesser of two evils.  There are plenty of places where that is discussed, and it is not on topic for this thread.

[magooch]

So legalizing pot is a good thing?  Doesn't legal alcohol do enough damage?  Don't take that to mean that I want alcohol banned.  And why stop at pot?  Is it really going to improve our condition?  I love freedom as much as the next guy, but the freedom to live in a toilet doesn't seem like an improvement.

When weed is legal is it then going to be easier to keep the kids off of it?  Oh wait, it might be a good thing to have the kids all doped up and mellowed out so maybe they won't be dropping the F-bomb all over the place. 

Anyway, put me down as a vote against legalizing any drugs that are for no other purpose than mind altering.

[jimster]

Does not affect me no matter if all dope is legal or not, same people are going to do what they want, same as when booze was illegal people still drank.  Probably would have been better to not pass any laws making any mind altering things illegal...let the people that use them waste away.  Not really right to have booze legal and pot not legal anyways...that don't make much sense does it? People picking and choosing what they don't want the other guy to use while they take a belt from the bottle? Make it all legal, if people are dumb enough to use it, so what. They will use it anyways. I can't see where it would hurt me at all either way.  Besides...I had a couple beers last weekend, had a shot of rum the weekend before. What right do I have to want a law that says somebody can't smoke pot?  Truth is, booze is probably much more phisically addicting than pot anyways.  It all boils down to worthless laws that are passed, that can't be enforced, so why bother to pick and choose which mind altering substance we think is right or wrong and shove that on the whole public?  Does not make a bit of sense to me.  Once you tell someone they could die or get addicted and then die from doing XXX...it's up to them.  

Is legalizing pot a good thing you ask?  Truth is, it won't make a bit of difference to anyone who uses it or does not use it...not one bit of difference at all.  The same people will use it if they want.  It's as easy to get as a hamburger, legal or not.

[billy_56081]

How about we make it legal to also kill drug dealers and illegal aliens. Talk about limiting government power. That would keep em out of our lives too. Smoking pot is not a big deal but sooner or later and very commonly the pot is laced with other drugs.

[Hooker]

Billy drug dealers are not and never were the root of the problem.
It is the the drug user and the law that are the problem. Legalize the drugs and the dealer become tax paying businessmen.
Revenues go up and crime and law enforcement costs go down. Yes drugs are bad for you and they destroy lives so does alcohol and a lot of other things. But what some consenting adult idiot wants to put in his or her body should be of no concern to the rest of us. Just don't expect us to pick up the tab for their stupidity.
Illegal aliens are not the problem it is laws that are soft and those that use and cater to them that are the problem. That makes the federal government the number one problem in the illegal immigration war. If you keep feeding the strays and making life easy on them they wont quit coming. We the people should sue the federal government for failure to protect the Republic.

Pat

[SHOOTALL]

Booze or pot are trouble when abused or mis used . To be honest i don't use either . But heres the thing , we spend billoins of dollars on drug enforcement , courts and jails . We pay the tax each of us . It appears to me there are much more pot smokers today than in the 70's so the plan ain't working. Now from an enomic stand point would it not be more cost effective to TAX pot import and sales ? Let the pot taxes pay for all the other drug enforcement , courts and jails ? I don't see the problem being better or worst just financed by the users and abusers and not the non using tax payer .
 As far as our borders - do we need new laws or just enforcement of the ones we have ? getting to look like gun control ain't it .
 An i agree we don't need another 45 vs 9 mm , chevy vs ford or dumbacrap vs retreatagains

[GRIMJIM]

Wetback

Really

[Victor3]

 Yeah, that's pretty harsh.

 On the other hand, I worked with an illegal alien for 13 years and he thought what we called him was pretty funny...... Iceback, Canalien, etc.

 (He was from Quebec)

[jlwilliams]

  It's amazing to see what the states are doing to try to get out of the financial situations they are in.  Both of these laws are about the same thing, money.  AZ is trying to spend less on their prisons and such which are full of illegals.  Ship out all of them and hopefuly the costs come under controll.  CA is trying to cut the cost of jailng pot heads. 

  I really don't understand how the AZ law is controversial.  If someone is arrested, a quick search of records to see if they are wanted fo anything else is standard. If someone is carrying a gun, the police as for a carry permit or hunting license(as the case may be), so why is it any different to establish the person's citizenship?  Just as you can be carrying a gun legally or illegally, one can come to this country legally or illegally.  Check it out then handle accordingly.  What's the controversy?

  I predict that illegal immigrants are going to just move.  That's how they got to Arizona in the first place.  They didn't like where they were, so they left.  Arizona starts getting to be a hard place to be, they will move.  Now with California having an open arms position toward illegal immigrants, and having cheap and available pot, I suspect that will be the obvious place to go to.

[Default_Required]

 It's amazing to see what the states are doing to try to get out of the financial situations they are in.  Both of these laws are about the same thing, money.  AZ is trying to spend less on their prisons and such which are full of illegals.  Ship out all of them and hopefuly the costs come under controll.  CA is trying to cut the cost of jailng pot heads.  

  I really don't understand how the AZ law is controversial.  If someone is arrested, a quick search of records to see if they are wanted fo anything else is standard. If someone is carrying a gun, the police as for a carry permit or hunting license(as the case may be), so why is it any different to establish the person's citizenship?  Just as you can be carrying a gun legally or illegally, one can come to this country legally or illegally.  Check it out then handle accordingly.  What's the controversy?

  I predict that illegal immigrants are going to just move.  That's how they got to Arizona in the first place.  They didn't like where they were, so they left.  Arizona starts getting to be a hard place to be, they will move.  Now with California having an open arms position toward illegal immigrants, and having cheap and available pot, I suspect that will be the obvious place to go to.

 JLW  the controversy is simply one of ignorance and that those that were born here dont want aunt Maria and uncle Pauhco to have to go home. Though all these people against it in the news reminds how much It never fails to piss me off, when I Read/Hear/Watch some idiot talking about the " Constitutional rights of illegals"  Sorry stupid people annoy me to no end. I dont know what part of they are illegal that those types dont get.

 Send them all home, take the burden off the states that are infested and by all means free up the jobs they were consuming so an actual American has the option of work , Weither it is what they want to do for a living or not I leave to said person. But Mowing a yard beats losing my house and returning to rent . I would hope that I'm not alone on that one .

 As for pot , Thats simple .  Leagalize it , Smoked pot and drank the drinks and if it were not for the piss tests required by jobs to gain employment and required after a work related injury , My prefference would be to smoke a little grass relax BBQ'n with friends then out getting drunk in town with strangers . The drink is far more guilty of damge to society at large then pot has or would ever be.

 Lastly Bil hit it on the head , They Are Wet Backs! Guys Dont be so thin skined , Political Correctness is nothing more then a way of dumbing down ones right to think and say what he will the way he wants. I wont give up that freedom to an armed invader , I sure as hell am not going to give it up to a sensitive whining metro-sexual group of PC "OHHH You Hurt My Feelings" types.

[magooch]

I will never believe that legalizing drugs like marijuana would make our condition better and if it's true that those who want to use it already do, then why make it legal?  To try to justify legalization of pot, because alcohol is legal might be rational to some, but then why couldn't the same argument be used to legalize all sorts of drugs?  "Why hell, if marijuana is legal; why not heroin?"  "An adult ought to be able to put anything into his body that he wants."

Well folks, these things have been tried before in this country and other places.  It always turns out bad.  It never leads to a better society.  I guess that is why I'm not a libertarian.  It might work in a place where people lived way off in the sticks and had little to no contact with the rest of society, but most of us don't live like that.  Life might be easier if that were the case, but it's not.  We have to deal with the practicality of what is and not what it should be.

I was born and raised in a time when drugs were all but unheard of.  My wish for America would be that others would have the opportunity to enjoy the same type of environment.  Maybe that is naive and old hat, but I don't care; that's the way I am and I'm sticking to it.

[billy_56081]

No matter what Cali says it still against federal law.

[nw_hunter]

I like freedom, limited government intrusion, sovereign borders, the rule of law, and individual responsibility.  Accordingly, I like both laws.  I hope other states follow both leads.

"ME TOO" I like the same things, which is why I prob. won't be voting Democrat or Republican in the next general election.

Ok, but lets not start another thread on the lesser of two evils.  There are plenty of places where that is discussed, and it is not on topic for this thread.

OK!..............I hope all other states, except Cal. follow Az's lead, and perhaps they would all move to Cal.Then Cal. could secede from the union, and things would be perfect again.

[magooch]

That would put your state on the Cal/Mexican border and you guys would be the new target of mass invasion from the south.  Oh, I forgot, you Oregonians are already under full assault, as are we Washingtonians.

I say we don't concede one square centimeter to the invaders--not even California.

[Swampman]

Forgetting about the Drug War would be one of the smartest moves this country ever made.  Billions wasted and no progress.  Hemp production would create millions of good jobs.  It would put a hurt on the Lumber/Paper fat cats.

[dukkillr]

No matter what Cali says it still against federal law.

http://blogs.usdoj.gov/blog/archives/192
The Feds passed down an opinion several months ago seeming to indicate that they were no longer pursuing charges aginst those in compliance with state laws.

[nw_hunter]

That would put your state on the Cal/Mexican border and you guys would be the new target of mass invasion from the south.  Oh, I forgot, you Oregonians are already under full assault, as are we Washingtonians.

I say we don't concede one square centimeter to the invaders--not even California.

Yup! I agree, but your state and mine will never follow Az.Our states are ran by Constipationalists......Not Constitutionalists.

[williamlayton]

TM
Swimming a river is not a wash--
Magooch
You may have been raised where drugs--other than moonshine--was not know, but, I can't emigine where you were raised----but i doubt that you were raised when they were not known of.
Even the old Hager song about Muscogie was a crock--OK has produced some fine weed for YEARS .
Blesssings

[teamnelson]

No matter what Cali says it still against federal law.

I never go down that line of reasoning. It only works with a "good" federal government. When its a "bad" one then you would essentially be saying that just because a state decriminalizes the sale and use of handguns, its okay for the Feds to say its bad. Sorry, never ever open that door because a lawyer will walk through it.

[Swampman]

Is the term "Wetback" acceptable here?  I saw the N word a week or so ago???

[wareagleguy]

I just do not understand why people that say they want less government would support any law that prohibits personal choice.  Why do you feel compelled to make government pass laws to force people live by your standards.  This will never work and this is why we live in a Republic.  Until people stop trying to use government to force their view of morality we will continue this road to more government control. 

[teamnelson]

wareagle, I agree with you to a point. we cannot function successfully as a nation of individuals ... won't work. chaos ensues, anarchy ... cats and dogs living together, mass hysteria.

We can however function as a nation of communities; we called those colonies and they were founded by idealogically aligned individuals. Those expanded into states. Then we decided to collaborate with each other and form a federal (feral) government. I think we can if we choose so push back to a collaboration of sovereign states (communities) who for themselves can negotiate what passes for morality in their borders. I consider myself a minarchist (only as much government as is minimally necessary per the constitution) and would gladly participate in my state's government to ensure as much liberty as was considered appropriate to our state's culture.

[BBF]

................Notice the government only permits substances that deaden conscienous like tobacco and alcohol.


..TM7
.

and can be taxed !!

[MGMorden]

Is the term "Wetback" acceptable here?  I saw the N word a week or so ago???

People are always testing the waters to see just how racist they can go.  Racists don't like to speak openly except around other racists, so they'll sneak in a word here and there to see if someone calls them on it so that they'll eventually know that they can open up and really start spouting off.  You see it in real life, and you see it on the internet.

I usually like to sit back and see who else joins in when they think it's ok.  It's a good way to root out the hidden ones. Let em beat their drum.  The world left them behind 50 years ago and though they might make a stink every now and then, we're not going back to those particular "good ol' days".

[SHOOTALL]

I have heard or seen in print , can't remember which , Dupont had a hand in getting pot baned . Seems they made poly rope and nylon rope and wanted to crush the hemp rope business ?

[guzzijohn]

Quote from MGMorden:

[guzzijohn]

Sorry, hit the wrong button the first time.

Quote from MGMorden:

People are always testing the waters to see just how racist they can go.  Racists don't like to speak openly except around other racists, so they'll sneak in a word here and there to see if someone calls them on it so that they'll eventually know that they can open up and really start spouting off.  You see it in real life, and you see it on the internet.

I usually like to sit back and see who else joins in when they think it's ok.  It's a good way to root out the hidden ones. Let em beat their drum.  The world left them behind 50 years ago and though they might make a stink every now and then, we're not going back to those particular "good ol' days".

Very well said.
GuzziJohn