WI wants Gray Wolf off the endangered list

[Cheesehead]

The state is again asking federal authorities to remove the gray wolf from the endangered species list because its population is the highest since it recolonized in Wisconsin.

Reclassifying the gray wolf would allow authorities to use lethal means to control the population, which increased about 12 percent over the winter in Wisconsin.

Department of Natural Resources Secretary Matthew Frank says the gray wolf is in no danger of extinction in Wisconsin and won't be in the foreseeable future.

The number of wolves in Wisconsin, Minnesota and Michigan is estimated at more than 4,000.

A decision from the U.S. Department of Interior could take months. The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reports the state is also asking for interim authority to kill wolves that have attacked livestock and other animals.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  Wyo. had them where they belong on the predator list until some soft headed judge  changed the rules...personally, I think it time for Wyo. Mont. and Idaho to succeed from the U.S. and run their own country...mean while  in our part of the country wolves are considered predators and dealt with like wise....

[JeffG]

WI wants Gray Wolf off the endangered list

Yes, we do....

[crash87]

OW..OW..OW...AHHWOOOOooooo.....BANG!!!   What jeffG said,    I 2nd that.

[buck460XVR]

Many of you know I have no love for those that shoot wolves illegally......same as with any other dirtball violator. Those who disrespect and/or show no regard to our game laws generally don't stop at one violation or one species. The same dirtball that illegally pulls the trigger on a wolf thinkin' it's the right thing to do to protect his whitetail hunting, is the same dirtball who will pull the trigger on a trophy buck after hours or before season. Same mentality....same ethics.

But....... I do believe we need to take the wolf off the endangered list in Wisconsin so we can allow for the legal control of their population and for removal of problem animals. We also need our neighboring states to do the same so we don't get their excess animals wandering into our neck of the woods. Regardless of what many want to believe, this is what re-established the wolf in Wisconsin.......not restocking by the DNR secretly at night. We need to fully understand their role in our ecosystem(not just hothead internet trash talk) and we need to realize a limit to their population that will sustain them, without being a burden on livestock and wild prey animals. We need to set up quota areas like with deer and set population goals in those areas......and we need to establish a hunting season to keep those goals. I personally would like to see the first of those permits auctioned off to the highest bidder with the funds going to further the study of the wolf and it's impact on our wildlife and to educate the general public about the wolf and the role it plays here in Wisconsin.

[JeffG]

allow for the legal control of their population and for removal of problem animals.

Well said!!

[myronman3]

problem is 460, they are not our game laws.  they are what is being forced on us by one stinking federal judge.    wake up. 

[Doug B.]

We need to set up quota areas like with deer and set population goals in those areas......and we need to establish a hunting season to keep those goals.

I agree. However, unlike the deer population and quotas in our state, these would need to be realistic. Our DNR would need to start from the get-go and I can't fathom how many years it might take to determine these populations/goals given they still don't have a realistic handle on our states "sacred cows". Unless a plan is in effect before the Feds unleash their grip on these vermin, our deer population will face further decimation from this single species. Now add yotes and black bear!   

[1sourdough]

 I read a dismal report on fawn mortality in MI recently. They collared a number a fawns at birth, by Fall half fell to predators. I didn't see what part of MI is was in, but in the study coyotes were the main known predators. I'd also like to see coyote shooting during deer season up North allowed. I do realize some get bagged anyway. When out deer hunting I'm happy to bag a coyote when it works out.

[jcn59]

460 doesn't have quite the handle on things he thinks he has.  I don't fit his bracketed stereotype & I suspect I'm not alone.  Not by a long shot.  I wonder if he's ever even seen a wolf, wild, in "the ecosystem".

I bet if he posed that "ecosystem" business to a bear hunter who just lost his favorite hound to a wolf pack, he would be wondering where his teeth went in short order.

His statement that we need to understand the wolf's role in our ecosystem makes me wonder where he's been for the 60 or so years when we didn't have any wolves here.  My great grandfather understood the "ecosystem" completely, that's why we didn't have any wolves to contend with for so many years.  Where are guys like him now when we really need them.  He could tell you more than a few things about "the ecosystem".

Then some yuppie college boy somewhere decided we should spend our game management $$ propagating wolves.  Fast forward to now:  The DNR doesn't even have enough money left after their predator management enforcement to keep open the offices we built for them 20 years ago.  When I talk to the DNR "counter people" about their inability to keep their doors open but one day a week, they hold up their hands and say "We're not the problem; it's Madison".   Maybe it's Madison that needs to better understand "the ecosystem".

With the exception of the SCAT deer numbering system, the DNR is almost completely out of the game management business these days.  I can't believe they are dumping even more dollars into their deer population guessing game formula.  It's never been worth a hoot.  Maybe that's why they are broke now.  Anyone who hunts deer knows more about deer populations than those so-called Madison scientists and their "hard science" as they call it.

But I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion, that's how our president (the worst president ever) got voted into his job.

AAAAAARRRRRRGGHHHHHHHHHH!    I feel a little better now.  Ecosystem......BAAAHHHHHHHHH!

[buck460XVR]

460 doesn't have quite the handle on things he thinks he has.  I don't fit his bracketed stereotype & I suspect I'm not alone.

 Like I said...a dirtball violator is a dirtball violator, regardless of his warped justification. Those who condone and promote wildlife violations are dirtballs too.  Just cause the dirtball violator  is a poor deer hunter and can't get a deer legally, he has to have some kind of excuse to take back to his buddies at the bar. Blaming the wolf for lack of success seems to be the norm for those folk.  Same reason he takes that shot after hours or before season.....cause in his mind, "everyone else does it!" Sorry, not everyone else does it. Some take pride in taking animals legally and ethically. Some follow the rules even when they don't agree with them. That's how things are done in this country. Amazing how some of those that scream the loudest about their RKBA are the same ones that don't think the other parts of the Constitution applies to them. If I remember correctly, the same folks that wrote the second amendment also gave the power to make the rules to the majority. They also set up the Judicial  system that has given the judge the power to reinstate the endangered classification. It isn't a perfect system, but it's still the best in the world today. This isn't revolutionary times, people don't break the law to fight against Tyranny. They break the laws cause they are dirtballs and think they can get away with it. They teach their kids the same ethics....bet it makes them proud. If you pride yourself with identifying with these types, so be it. You want to justify their illegal actions.....guess that makes you one of them.

 

I wonder if he's ever even seen a wolf, wild, in "the ecosystem".

yep sure have. There's two packs that live in the immediate area. We have more problems with the Hybrids around here. Folks that think they are gonna make big bucks by breeding them and when they can't find a buyers for a litter they let them go cause they can't afford to feed them. These are animals with wolf instincts with domestic dog's attraction to humans. Cause they were raised with humans they have no fear of them and expect to find food in places they inhabit. They are generally mistaken for real wolves and many times only DNA can distinguish which is which.

I bet if he posed that "ecosystem" business to a bear hunter who just lost his favorite hound to a wolf pack, he would be wondering where his teeth went in short order.

I doubt it. But then talk is cheap.

His statement that we need to understand the wolf's role in our ecosystem makes me wonder where he's been for the 60 or so years when we didn't have any wolves here.  My great grandfather understood the "ecosystem" completely, that's why we didn't have any wolves to contend with for so many years.  Where are guys like him now when we really need them.  He could tell you more than a few things about "the ecosystem".

Yeah, your great grandpas and my grandpa's understanding of the ecosystem is what gave us so few deer south of highway 10, 60 years ago. It was their understanding of deer that gave us such lop sided buck/doe ratios. It was their generation that gave a bounty on foxes cause they were preying on their chickens. Same reason they shot every owl and hawk they saw. Cause they knew so much. What may have worked 60 years ago is not true today. What was acceptable practice then is not acceptable today. 60 years ago blacks still had to ride in the back of the bus. 60 years ago it was acceptable to beat your wife and kids. Do you still condone those practices too?

 

But I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion

yes they are...that's what makes this country so great.....and being able to state your opinion without the fear of loosing your teeth......and knowing if some dirtball knocks your teeth out for just expressing your opinion, he's going to jail on a felony and will probably loose his RKBA.

jcn59, I know you are not reacting to my support of the dropping of the Grey Wolf from the Endangered list. I also know you are not against my favoring a legal season on wolves to keep their numbers within reason. It's obvious, your negative reaction comes from my distaste of those who flagrantly violate state and federal game laws.............why is that?

[jcn59]

I ate two bowls of grumpy for breakfast yesterday, that's why.

I don't believe the wolf has a place in our ecosystem anymore.  The rational that they were here first is about as applicable to wolves as it is to dinosaurs.

Your stereotype of people who don't like wolves suggests to me that you hang around with an entirely different group of people than I do.  Maybe it's time you upgrade a bit.

As far as the laws go, every single law was voted into law by a politician, and I haven't seen a politician even worth his weight in dung since Ike.  It's my duty as an American to voice my objection to bad laws.   I'll give you an example:  It's illegal for you to drive your pickup unless you have your seat belt on, but your wife can ride in the bed with no seatbelt.  Don't even think about the craziness of 60 kids in a school bus that don't have to be safely belted in.  And the list goes on.   The fact that shooting wolves is illegal doesn't make it a good law.  We should fight it.  We don't pay our DNR to raise predators.

I'm starting to feel like I'm argueing with myself.  You and I probably agree an 95% of this stuff anyways.  Have a good day, 460.  Hunting season is just 5 months away.

p.s.   I've shot so many deer I'm starting to feel sorry for them.  

[myronman3]

not me, i gave up hunting.   until the dnr pulls their head out of their butt, they are not getting a dime of my money.   
  this coming from a person that never thought anything could stop him from hunting. 

[jcn59]

Fifty years ago all sportsmen were told to shoot fox, owls, hawks, possum and other predators.  We did and there were pheasants, ducks, and grouse everywhere.  All the rabbits and squirrels you wanted, the golden years of small game hunting.  That was back in the day when youth started hunting on small game, and worked up to big game, using the skills they learned in the field.  Any deer shot in Wisconsin was a trophy back then.

Now we have "corn-pile sitters" and people who aren't bright enough to know how lucky they are that God smiled on them by letting them shoot a buck until they whip out their tape measure and measure the horns first.   Oh, let's not forget Matt Frank, the DNR secretary who doesn't hunt.  Last but not least, the SAP method of counting deer which only works in Madison.

Now the DNR manages predators,not game birds and animals.  They don't even sell enough licenses to keep their doors open to the public.  Hard science, my behind.  Figures lie and liars figure:  true in grampa's day and true today.

Other than that, I don't really have much to say about it.

[1sourdough]

 I remember being out with Gramps in the mid 70's. We would see a hawk while out grouse hunting & he would say 'we'll try to shoot one(hawk) to help the grouse'. There was also a $20 bounty on coyotes in the early 70's, (MI). The price of fur brought out trappers too. I read an old timer article in FFG recently about owl hunting back in the day. I know that was then & this is now, but a whole different way of doing things. They thought it made sense to help the game populations that you got a benefit from. Gramps was also a retired game warden. I think predatory birds were protected by the mid 70's. I think he was operating off a mentality instilled from the older days. I think now he'd say what in the world is going on?

[jcn59]

Almost everyone operated from a mentality instilled from the older days.  Common sense, accountability, self-sufficiency, creativity, and just plain hard work, from the older days, made the USA the greatest nation on earth.  Our children take it for granted that they are invincable without ever paying "the price" of freedom and greatness.   They will get their "wake up call" soon.

But look at us now.  This country's majority elects fools to lead them; people whose supporters are criminals, and it's considered bad form to be critical of their crimes.  We have game managers who don't hunt; who use the hunter's dollar to do the governor's bidding.  They should go back to the business of the past, serving the hunter again, not the predators.

If wolves are so great, I ask you:  How many of you would take your children to the Milwaukee zoo if the wolves were allowed to run among you , uncaged, like we have in northern Wisconsin?

[myronman3]

the fact that they dont have enough money to keep their doors open proves to me that i am not the only one choking the life out of them.  bankrupt the bastards i say.   not one dime!

[buck460XVR]

I ate two bowls of grumpy for breakfast yesterday, that's why.

Been guilty of that myself.......more times than I'd like to remember.

I don't believe the wolf has a place in our ecosystem anymore.  The rational that they were here first is about as applicable to wolves as it is to dinosaurs.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion as am I. Just cause we don't agree don't mean we can't express it.

Your stereotype of people who don't like wolves suggests to me that you hang around with an entirely different group of people than I do.  Maybe it's time you upgrade a bit.

Never in this thread have I made a statement against folks that don't like wolves.....only those that shoot them illegally. The fact is, I hate violators and slob hunters....period. I'm sure you do too. I hate the black eye they give us legitimate hunters everytime they do something stupid and it ends up in the paper. I hate it when I come across their trash in the woods or their illegal bait pile for turkey. I hate it when they sneak a 13'' bass home in the tackle box cause they can't catch anything bigger. I hate it when I come across a fawn shot in the azz and left for waste cause some slob didn't want to waste his tag. It reflects poorly on all of us.

  

The fact that shooting wolves is illegal doesn't make it a good law.  

Again, I never said it was a good law. In fact, if you read my first reply to this thread, I support a legal season on wolves........I always have. But as long as it's against the law, I'll abide by it and I expect other hunters to also. I feel the same way about those dam loons and cormorants . IMHO, They take more fish than legal anglers and spearing put together, but some folks think they're cute and a symbol of our Northwoods. As long as the law say's they're illegal they're safe, but open a season and I'll be the first one to apply for a permit. As I said before, I try to abide by the law, altho I may not agree with it. That's how I was taught.

I'm starting to feel like I'm argueing with myself.  You and I probably agree an 95% of this stuff anyways.  

 

I agree with you there. We probably have a lot more in common that we have differences. Our passion for hunting and standing firm in our beliefs is just a coupla of them. Just cause we have a different view on one subject means we're human.

Hunting season is just 5 months away.

Nope, hunting season is going on as we speak. Had the privilege of watching my 17 year old son take a nice Tom last Wednesday. Truly what it is all about.

[myronman3]

Nope, hunting season is going on as we speak.

dead on.  wolf season never closes.   

[Doug B.]

Appears as though the wolves are running low on whitetails. More and more cases of dog deprivation and everybody knows these numbers will not decrease. Of the 21 confirmed attacks on dogs this year, 15 have been fatal and most likely, these are only the kills which have been reported!

http://dnr.wi.gov/Org/land/er/mammals/wolf/dogdepred.htm

Some information for thought first.....then discussion. 

[Cheesehead]

I remember when wolves had a bounty on their head.

cheese

[1sourdough]

 Here's a picture of 4 in the bear bait. It's one of many pictures, day & night. This is in the N Central U.P. of MI. They don't look as pretty in the wild as on the magazine cover.

   I also saw one off the edge of the Hwy in the U.P. last Spring. It was trying to drag a road killed deer off into the woods.

[buck460XVR]

Here's a picture of 4 in the bear bait. It's one of many pictures, day & night. This is in the N Central U.P. of MI. They don't look as pretty in the wild as on the magazine cover.

The two in the foreground must be subordinates, notice the position of the tail between the legs?  Last month when fishing Thousand Island Lake in the U.P.for a week,  my wife and I decided to check out a shooting range at the local sand pit. Seems the local PD used the spot for disposal of road kill and area resort owners used it for disposal of fish cleaning house garbage. Besides the 8 eagles we flushed, we spooked a large black wolf nearby, that I assume was waiting for the sun to set and the eagles to leave. Wolves are not only smart, they are opportunistic. Free food is free food.

[1sourdough]

  Here's a few more just for the heck of it. There was a good article in the most recent RMEF magazine about wolves.

[myronman3]

it seems up here the boys have taken to poisoning the damn things.  but, when you have clowns 1000's of miles away telling you your business, whaddya expect.   people only tolerate for so long.........

[ihookem]

Sourdough, if they are that regular it is time for what we call a "night sit". This would be in order with a 22. Hey Myronman, I read you ain't huntn this year cause you won't give the dnr one more dime. Deer go down the same weather you have a 24 dollar dnr bill on your back or not!  Just kidding a bit. Hows life around Hudson anyway?

[billy_56081]

Just gut shoot em and leave them to run off and rot. Has worked east of the river for years and years.

[jcn59]

Any hunter and conservationist who intentionally gut-shoots any of God's creatures is neither a hunter or conservationist.  Only a chicken crap gut-shoots wolves to run off and die on his neighbor's land.  Any REAL man will shoot them in the head and bury them where they fall.  The government dropped the ball on this one and it's our responsibility to make it right. 

You don't make it right by gut-shooting an animal to run off and die on your neighbor's property.   We settled this earlier.  Remember?

[Cheesehead]

Billy is just trolling, again.

Cheese

[jcn59]

Yeah.  And dumb me, I took the bait.  I hate that gut-shooting business.  Had a client once who told me he purposely gut-shot a deer to show his kid what "not to do".  What a puke.