Author Topic: Dahlgren barrels  (Read 4309 times)

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Offline little seacoast

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Dahlgren barrels
« on: April 29, 2010, 12:50:31 AM »
I was watching an older cast Dahlgren barrel on an auction site that suddenly vanished 24 hrs early.  Does anyone know if a 20" or so reproduction Dahlgren is being made by a current manufacturer?  I really like the look and a barbette carriage mount would be nice to build.
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Offline KABAR2

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Re: Dahlgren barrels
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2010, 02:59:07 AM »
If it was the one on evilbay that looked to be an original model not a repro

not sure of anyone casting these now.
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Offline intoodeep

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Re: Dahlgren barrels
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2010, 04:24:16 AM »
little seacoast,

 South Bend Replicas was making a 1/7 scale Dahlgren. This is almost the same as the one on the auction. However, last time I was at SBR's website I noticed that Paul wants to retire and the company is up for sale. So, I do not know if it's currently available.
If you make it idiot proof, then, someone will make a better idiot.


Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Dahlgren barrels
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2010, 05:41:25 AM »
LS,
The Dahlgren barrel that was listed on eBay was pulled by the eBay police, it is (and has been) their policy not to allow "functioning" items such as this to be sold on their site, but where the enforcement of this ban used to be lax, it now seems like they are on a self-righteous mission to rid the world of such evil things.

As Intoodeep said, that was a South Bend Replica, Inc. cast iron, steel sleeved barrel with a 1-inch bore. I talked to Paul, the owner of SBR this past tuesday, and added to some other problems that he's dealing with, there has also been some ongoing employee theft taking place at his shop. The scale Dahlgren is not available, he has none in stock, and it now appears iffy that it will ever be manufactured again. Another interesting thing I found out is that SBR doesn't do the iron casting themselves, they produce the patterns, and have the casting done by outside foundries.



edit: Emended text; it wasn't a major robbery, it was employees pilfering, the way I heard it Tues. it sounded like half the stock in the warehoues was missing. ;)
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Dahlgren barrels
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2010, 09:21:54 AM »
Paul, the owner of SBR called me again today, (he responded to my original message on his machine, he forgot to delete it and gave me a second call back) so I took the opportunity to ask some more questions. As Intoodeep has said, SBR is definitely up for sale, and there are currently some interested parties; so I asked Paul if it was a deal in which it would be the intent of the new owners to just take over producing the items in the SBR catalog from the already existing patterns, and he responded that this was how he hoped it would turn out. This means that there may be a chance of being able to get some of the models listed in the SBR catalog at some future date.
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline dominick

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Re: Dahlgren barrels
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2010, 06:21:49 AM »
Little Seacoast,  I will be building Dahlgrens again in 75 caliber and 1" bore.  Dahlgren barrels will also be available.  Here are photos of one that I'm working on. They are a bit smaller than the one you are looking at but the one inch bore may possibly scale closely to your Dictator Mortar.  My goal is to make available a scaled series of mini cannons and mortars.  It's been a rough winter and I finally got up and running again last week after my second shop move.   :)  Dom

75 Caliber model shown.






Offline BoomLover

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Re: Dahlgren barrels
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2010, 07:45:40 AM »
Dom, that is one nice looking little Dahlgren! I'll got to your site to see if you have any ready for sale yet...BoomLover
"Beware the Enemy With-in, for these are perilous times! Those who promise to protect and defend our Constitution, but do neither, should be evicted from public office in disgrace!

Offline JeffG

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Re: Dahlgren barrels
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2010, 09:54:40 AM »
Dom is BACK!!  Nice work!! In case your'e guessing, I am a big fan of Dom's work!!  Excellent stuff!!
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Offline dominick

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Re: Dahlgren barrels
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2010, 10:17:58 AM »
I'll have the Dahlgren posted on my website in a few weeks once I'm caught up with work.  Dom

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Dahlgren barrels
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2010, 10:21:03 AM »
Dom is BACK!!  Nice work!! In case your'e guessing, I am a big fan of Dom's work!!  Excellent stuff!!

Ditto! Dom, what's the OA length on the 1-inch bore version going to be (same as your previous model)?
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline dominick

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Re: Dahlgren barrels
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2010, 12:34:40 PM »
The 1" bore will not be as large as the golf ball size Dahlgrens.  I'm not sure of the size yet but it's scaling to about 11" or 12" long.  The golf ball Dahlgrens are 17 1/2" long.

Offline Double D

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Re: Dahlgren barrels
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2010, 12:50:06 PM »
The 1" bore will not be as large as the golf ball size Dahlgrens.  I'm not sure of the size yet but it's scaling to about 11" or 12" long.  The golf ball Dahlgrens are 17 1/2" long.

Dom, what will the bore diameter be; 1 inch for .975 inch ball  or 1.026 for 1 inch round ball? 

I know a source for 1 inch round ball, but don't know a source for .975 inch ball.


Offline little seacoast

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Re: Dahlgren barrels
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2010, 12:59:26 PM »
Thanks for the update Dom! When you get them done, I definately need one.
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Offline dominick

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Re: Dahlgren barrels
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2010, 02:13:20 PM »
The 1" bore will not be as large as the golf ball size Dahlgrens.  I'm not sure of the size yet but it's scaling to about 11" or 12" long.  The golf ball Dahlgrens are 17 1/2" long.

Dom, what will the bore diameter be; 1 inch for .975 inch ball  or 1.026 for 1 inch round ball? 

I know a source for 1 inch round ball, but don't know a source for .975 inch ball.



1" bore.  I use 3 oz. cannon ball sinkers that are .966" diameter.  A source for this ammo is Brad & sons tackle.  http://www.bradandsonstackle.com/

Offline Double D

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Re: Dahlgren barrels
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2010, 02:36:07 PM »
May I suggest you make you bore less than one inch so the 1 inch balls will not enter at all.  I see problems otherwise. People don't understand why a 1 inch round peg does not fit in a 1 inch round hole......

Offline dominick

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Re: Dahlgren barrels
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2010, 04:19:05 PM »
Douglas,  I use tubing and the ID is predetermined by it.  The material I use has a very close tolerance of .995" to .998" ID.  A 1" steel ball or dowel will not fit unless it's pressed in with a lot of force, more so than can be done manually with a rammer.  Dom

Offline Double D

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Re: Dahlgren barrels
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2010, 04:35:29 PM »
Sounds good....

Offline Ex 49'er

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Re: Dahlgren barrels
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2010, 06:26:08 AM »
I'm going to hold out for the .75 caliber model. Future postal shoot gun.
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Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Dahlgren barrels
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2010, 07:19:35 AM »
     First, as proud owners of an older 1" model Dominic Dahlgren Gun, Mike and I can say you can't go wrong getting one of the new ones!  The quality is excellent! 

 
May I suggest you make you bore less than one inch so the 1 inch balls will not enter at all.  I see problems otherwise. People don't understand why a 1 inch round peg does not fit in a 1 inch round hole......

     Over the past 35 years, I have tried to explain that condition called a "Line-to-line" fit many times to buyers, vendors, even production managers, but with little success, but that's not the hardest thing to understand.  Just try to explain why two gage blocks, with surfaces in excellent condition, each of the mating surfaces flat within 3 or 4 millionths of an inch, can be 'wrung together' and, using no adhesive at all, cannot be pulled apart by ANYONE in a direction square to their mating surfaces.  Anybody know what holds them together so tightly?

Mike and Tracy
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Dahlgren barrels
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2010, 08:03:41 AM »
Is it because of the vacuum that results from pressing them together?
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Dahlgren barrels
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2010, 09:02:43 AM »
    Boom J.,   You are certainly going in the right direction.  After all a vacuum is usually defined as a volume of space devoid of any matter, for practical purposes the matter is almost always air.  However, if you can call the extremely small space between the 'wrung' gage block surfaces, almost entirely devoid of air, a vacuum, that's open to contrary arguments.

    For the sake of further discussion, let's assume that the un-contained space between the blocks is close to a perfect vacuum.  How then do you explain the fact that these blocks, approx. one square inch in contact area, in this condition of adhesion, will support weights in excess of 50 Lbs., while atmospheric pressure is a mere 14.696 Lbs/Square Inch?  Any physicists out there?

     Where is that Texan, Don Krag when we need him?

Tracy and Mike
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Dahlgren barrels
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2010, 09:41:00 AM »
T&M,
Don't think for even one millisecond that I'm applying for the job of physicist, if I had any brains I'd say "count me out," and give you one of these, :P then go back to my coloring book and crayons; ;) but would the description of suction then be a better answer? 
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline little seacoast

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Re: Dahlgren barrels
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2010, 12:48:18 PM »
M&T thanks for the endorsement of the new barrels, now the problem is to decide which of these goodies to go for.  Dom has built two guns for me so far and I agree that the quality and value are outstanding.  Thankfully my wife thinks his guns are cute, she'll even let me keep them in the living room.
America has no native criminal class except Congress.   Sam Clemens

Offline dominick

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Re: Dahlgren barrels
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2010, 01:42:54 PM »
         Over the past 35 years, I have tried to explain that condition called a "Line-to-line" fit many times to buyers, vendors, even production managers, but with little success, but that's not the hardest thing to understand.  Just try to explain why two gage blocks, with surfaces in excellent condition, each of the mating surfaces flat within 3 or 4 millionths of an inch, can be 'wrung together' and, using no adhesive at all, cannot be pulled apart by ANYONE in a direction square to their mating surfaces.  Anybody know what holds them together so tightly?

Mike and Tracy

Well, I'm taking a wild quess and thought that surface adhesion may be the answer.  So I googled it and found this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adhesive_surface_forces
Don't ask me to explain any of it, but it looks like something close.   ;D ;D

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Dahlgren barrels
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2010, 03:14:11 PM »
Thanks Dom, now it all becomes clear!  Where P is the force (negative for attraction), z is the separation distance, and A is a material specific constant called the Hamaker constant. At first my memory was a little foggy, but once I saw this, "The effect is also apparent in experiments where a Polydimethylsiloxane (PDMS) stamp is made with small periodic post structures. The surface with the posts is placed face down on a smooth surface, such that the surface area in between each post is elevated above the smooth surface, like a roof supported by columns. Because of these attractive dispersive forces between the PDMS and the smooth substrate, the elevated surface – or “roof” – collapses down onto the substrate without any external force aside from the van der Waals attraction." it all came flowing back to me. :D
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Dahlgren barrels
« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2010, 04:23:52 PM »



AND, as Li'l Abner would say, "As any fool can plainly see ..."

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Offline lance

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Re: Dahlgren barrels
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2010, 04:31:00 PM »



AND, as Li'l Abner would say, "As any fool can plainly see ..."


Tim, you are just jealous that you don't have a Dahlgren, maybe i'll let you use my SBR 1" Dahlgren sometime.........
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Offline RocklockI

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Re: Dahlgren barrels
« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2010, 04:56:16 PM »
Tracy YOU told me in a GDT class in about 1984 that it was because of interacting atoms between the two surfaces .

You said it so it must be true .
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Dahlgren barrels
« Reply #28 on: May 03, 2010, 04:59:07 PM »
AND, as Li'l Abner would say, "As any fool can plainly see ..."
Tim, you are just jealous that you don't have a Dahlgren, maybe i'll let you use my SBR 1" Dahlgren sometime.........

Both are unrelated, but true.

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Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Dahlgren barrels
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2010, 05:38:06 PM »
    Dom found a really good foundation document for the understanding of Van der Waals attraction, chemical bonding, etc.  Atomic attraction or, more properly, Atomic Covalent Bonding is what the physics people state is the reason that these extremely flat, steel, surfaces with millions of atoms in such extremely close proximity to each other, bond so quickly and with such power.  Iron/steel has another reason to bond with like materials in close proximity.  The iron atom has 26 electrons total and two in the outer of four energy layers.  Materials with even numbers of electrons orbiting in the outer layer are far more likely to form covalence shells by combining equal numbers of electrons with adjacent atoms.

     For non-scientists like Mike and I, the concept of these surfaces 'growing' together is more easily visualized and is very close to what actually happens according to the information I have read about this subject.  The Physics people say that the longer these materials are in close proximity, the stronger the bond gets.  Do the two gage blocks eventually become one?  We don't know.  Maybe.

     Good grief Gary, you have a very good memory or was it that you had an unforgettable instructor? 

     Boom J.,   You are incorrigible!  Yoda would say, "Quite an explanation, it was."

Tracy and Mike
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling