Author Topic: CVA breach plugs and Blackhorn 209 (Read 8873 times)

montveil · « **on:** April 29, 2010, 05:22:18 AM »

I was reading the Blackhorn 209 info and they state some breach plugs may not be suitable for their powder.
Does any one have any experience with a CVA Optima and Blackhorn 209

rogo · « **Reply #1 on:** April 29, 2010, 09:41:19 AM »

I do not have personal experience but BigBlock455 does. He shoots Blackhorn in his. I am sure he will be along and give you a report.

BCall · « **Reply #2 on:** April 30, 2010, 03:42:15 AM »

I've used it in an Optima Pro and an Optima Elite. As long as the breech plug completely encircles the primer cup, it is fine. Works great in my guns, I won't be using anything else now. Billy

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #3 on:** April 30, 2010, 06:02:28 PM »

Yep i use it in all of my cva inlines. Optima - Accura - Apex- Wolf. I strictly use CCI 209M primers are they have been flawless.

Use a #32 drill bit to clean out carbon out of the flash channel after every 10-15 shots and everything is perfect. Im experimenting with regular CCI primers now, so far so good!

montveil · « **Reply #4 on:** May 03, 2010, 07:42:49 AM »

Thanks for the replies--question answered

nomosendero · « **Reply #5 on:** May 07, 2010, 04:16:08 PM »

Quote from: bigblock455 on April 30, 2010, 06:02:28 PM

Yep i use it in all of my cva inlines. Optima - Accura - Apex- Wolf. I strictly use CCI 209M primers are they have been flawless.

Use a #32 drill bit to clean out carbon out of the flash channel after every 10-15 shots and everything is perfect. Im experimenting with regular CCI primers now, so far so good!

BINGO on the #32 drill bit. I called the folks at Blackhorn after I had some problems last & the Rep told me
to do as Big Block mentioned & that took care of it!

rebAL · « **Reply #6 on:** October 05, 2010, 03:06:25 AM »

Quote from: bigblock455 on April 30, 2010, 06:02:28 PM

Yep i use it in all of my cva inlines. Optima - Accura - Apex- Wolf. I strictly use CCI 209M primers are they have been flawless.

Use a #32 drill bit to clean out carbon out of the flash channel after every 10-15 shots and everything is perfect. Im experimenting with regular CCI primers now, so far so good!

Pardon my ignorance Big Block; You have always steered me right on this forum. I would like to purchase a #32 drill bit for my wolf B/P. What size is a #32? The smallest size I see is 3/32 & 1/16; They are not displayed as #'s.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #7 on:** October 05, 2010, 06:43:35 PM »

.116"
http://bobmay.astronomy.net/misc/drillchart.htm

phaessler · « **Reply #8 on:** December 19, 2010, 09:46:33 AM »

#32 = .116" , I have been reading about making the hole 0.032"-0.035" which is #65 or #67 respectively.
Anyone else??

c1c9 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 23, 2010, 03:18:38 AM »

Might want to try a 3/32" drill bit. It seemed to help mine.

CBM · « **Reply #10 on:** January 30, 2011, 07:46:39 AM »

I tried it in my optima and it didn't work well at all. I got off 2 shots and started having mostly all miss fires. I cleaned it thoroughly (with drill bit and all)and still kept having problems. I switched to triple 7 and haven't had a problem with it igniting. It will even work well with triple 7 and muzzleloader primers....... and you don't have to even use full strength primers (which are causing build up in my firing pin). I personally will not use blackhorn in my optima again ! I have a brand new bottle if you want to buy it !!

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #11 on:** January 31, 2011, 12:35:56 PM »

Follow these directions and see if it helps.
http://gandersmuzzleloadingblog.blogspot.com/2011/01/cva-muzzle-loaders-keepem-clean.html

And make sure you use the strong cci 209m primers as well.

montveil · « **Reply #12 on:** February 01, 2011, 04:18:51 AM »

I have found that acetylene cutting torch cleaners will work fine. I cut the tip off one to get better Bottom cleaning. For those not familiar with these cleaners, they are a set of little round files that make short work of breech plug cleaning.. Can be found at any welding supply and probably at Lowes or Home depot for less than $10

CBM · « **Reply #13 on:** February 02, 2011, 05:12:45 AM »

I had the CCI primers , welding file for the small port, drill bit for the larger port, cleaned everything over and over and had nothing but trouble. And I am not going to drill out my breech plug when triple 7 will fire everytime as it is from the factory. I am sure it's good powder but it does not work well in these guns with the removable breech plugs (without modification), so I don't see the point in using it when other stuff works just fine.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #14 on:** February 02, 2011, 07:32:36 AM »

did you adjust the firing pin bushing to take up the primer slack?

BH209 puts every other powder on the market into the dumpster IMO. No having to swab the bore in order to get t he next shot down, shoot 60+ shots on the range without ever having to touch the bore.

It takes about 2 seconds to enlarge the flash hole to western powders recommended .035" flash holy.

nomosendero · « **Reply #15 on:** February 02, 2011, 03:47:38 PM »

Quote from: CBM on February 02, 2011, 05:12:45 AM

I had the CCI primers , welding file for the small port, drill bit for the larger port, cleaned everything over and over and had nothing but trouble. And I am not going to drill out my breech plug when triple 7 will fire everytime as it is from the factory. I am sure it's good powder but it does not work well in these guns with the removable breech plugs (without modification), so I don't see the point in using it when other stuff works just fine.

Hmmm, how odd! Funny, the drill bit trick is all I had to do, problem solved & 100% reliability. I load 2 Optima Elites. Accuracy, Vel. & less corrosion than the others, not even close. My T7 is getting old now, I have been burning it a little at a time. Good ridance!!

CBM · « **Reply #16 on:** February 07, 2011, 07:15:06 AM »

I think it's just as interesting that you guys haven't had the problems I ran into. I got to say though..........for me it's not a good option. I will only shoot the gun a few times to make sure it is on before I hunt one piece of land once a year. The rest of the year I am shooting a Cooper .30-06. So the cleaning issues are kind of irrellevant to me..............I thought it would be helpful but it would not be ,given the trouble I had with bh209.

No , I have not modified anything on my rifle. And no one told me too when I asked about BH209 prior to having trouble. Now that I had trouble, then comes the modifying comments.

I just think people aught to know that they may run into some serious issues with a completely stock rifle. And a missfire on a big buck is not something I want to ever happen !

nomosendero · « **Reply #17 on:** February 07, 2011, 10:50:56 AM »

Quote

And a missfire on a big buck is not something I want to ever happen !

I certainty agree with that & I also agree that you should point out the problem to others, though I suspect it is an isolated problem, but it doesn't hurt to mention it anyway. When I said it was stange, that does not mean anything bad, just that I had never heard of the same problem, which includes a ton of OE shooters. The #32 drill bit solution mentioned by Big Bl. & later my me is the only thing I had heard of that needs to be done.

I gotta believe there is something wrong with your gun that doesn't meet the eye. I would call CVA and make arrangements to send it back. Going back to &&& would be like going back to a carburated car to me, I won't do it period!!

good luck

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #18 on:** February 08, 2011, 07:47:56 AM »

if you still get hang fires with the CCI 209 M primers, #32 cleaning drill bit, and have adjusted the firing pin bushing " may not be able to do that on the OE" and still get hang fires, your next best bet is to drill the breech plug out to .035" flash hole using a #65 drill bit.

Don't let modding the plug scare you guys, they are doing it with the smokeless savage muzzle loaders due to carbon build up and hang fires. No muzzle loader today was engineered perfectly to work with BH209 and that includes the savage.

CVA is working with Western Powders to get a new BP developed to work with all powders, including BH209.

sooner13 · « **Reply #19 on:** June 02, 2011, 11:04:38 AM »

I called CVA about my Optima and Apex and using Blackhorn powder. They said they do not have a replacement plug and did not recommend making a modification to it.
I was a little concerned about that after talking to them.
I also called Blackhorn and the tech said he had no problems with his after drilling it out.

I am going to try some of it without making any changes, just try the #32 bit, and see how it works. If I have trouble I will go back to 777.

P.S.
I emailed a guy that makes the plug but he wants $20 per plug or $17 to redo my existing plugs.
I have 4 guns and don't think I want to pay that at this time when 777 works fine.

montveil · « **Reply #20 on:** June 02, 2011, 05:27:55 PM »

The CVA rep couldn't tell you to modify anything--lawyers

nomosendero · « **Reply #21 on:** June 04, 2011, 06:43:19 AM »

Quote from: montveil on June 02, 2011, 05:27:55 PM

The CVA rep couldn't tell you to modify anything--lawyers

Bingo!! No way can they tell you to modify their design because of Lawyers & besides, it would be an admission of their own design being less than optimal.

jadek44 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 04, 2011, 04:11:33 PM »

I've owned CVAs ever since we started a BP season ( Mass). Started w/ffg and when Pyrodox? came out I went to that. Now I'm using thier pellets. Never had a misfire or no fire. Seems like a waste of time and energy to get what-- 50-60-fps. Any deer I've dropped wouldn't have noticed. If it doesn't work DON'T use it. IMHO

nomosendero · « **Reply #23 on:** June 05, 2011, 08:39:14 AM »

"If it doesn't work DON'T use it" Well, sure, but it sure works for most people & BTW, the gain over Pyrodex is sure alot more than 50-60fps.
I used Pyro for years, as I did with Black Powder before that, Conicals & all that stuff & yes the Deer I dropped did not know the diff. , just like they don't if a arrow kills them. But I know the difference because of the extra range I get, less range time with patching dirty bores & all the crap involved with Pyro, etc. But yes, to each his own & if a person is getting the performance they require with what they are currently using, then more power to them.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #24 on:** June 05, 2011, 02:59:12 PM »

Its a very simple fix guys and i know some others go to the extreme with the plugs, but i simply just drill out a 5/32' flash channel as well as a .032 to .035" flash hole, adjust my firing pin bushing to create a slightly crush fit of the primer to seal up primer gasses and its been flawless.

50-60fps is LOW BALL. Pyrodex shoots under 1,600 FPS while a 100gr charge of BH209 shoots in the mid 1,900's.

rebAL · « **Reply #25 on:** January 14, 2012, 09:00:10 AM »

I decided to purchase a replacement breech plug for my older wolf w/o twist turn improvement. I also bought both a 1/8" & a #32 drill bit. The new plug accepted the 1/8" perfectly and the #32 was a bit loose. I then removed my old plug and could not even get the #32 bit through the flash channel so I am in process of trying to remove accumulated carbon with dish soap. Even though it is clogged with carbon, it has still functioned without mishap but I am sure if unattended to I would eventually have misfires/hangfires using BH209. I intend to use new plug and keep old clogged one as a spare, but an investment in a new plug each year seems to me to be a good idea.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #26 on:** January 14, 2012, 12:47:14 PM »

rebel, like you are doing now, the hot soapy water will help soften the fouling quickly. Just run the #32 drill bit down the flash channel and cut out the softened carbon.