24 PDR Siege Cannon and other Civil War cannons in Montana.

[Double D]

Some time ago Seacoast Artillery challenged us all to go out and find historical artillery pieces Myles Standish link to Civil War Naval Cannon with Photos.

Seacoast listed the following locations for Civil war era Cannon's in Montana


                                                                                Big Hole NB
                                                                                Billings
                                                                                Bozeman
                                                                                Fort Benton
                                                                                Kalispell
                                                                                Livingston
                                                                                Missoula  ( 5, but all are privately owned)
                                                                                Poplar
                                                                                Virginia City

Shortly after they issued their challenge I stopped by the City park in Kallispell and took pictures and noted the markings on the 24 Pdr dispalyed there.
 24 PDR Siege Cannon
Woodland Park
Kalispell, MT
Google Earth coordinates  48°11'57.99"N  114°18'5.43"W















Markings read:

Moulded in relief on the cascabel is 658

On the base ring is 5626

In the first reinforce about midway between the trunnion is US

On the end of the right trnnion is WPF

On the end of the left trunnion is 1844

On the Muzzle is No. 3

Here is the response Seacoast provided to what i found.

 
     You have that correct, and you also found the Foundry No., 658, molded in raised relief on the cascable, but of course there are exceptions to this convention that is usually used for Army guns.  There were very few of these cast and they are correctly called  24 pdr. Siege-gun, Model 1840.  Pretty sure that only two survive in the United States today.

By the way what type of carrige would the Kalispell cannon been mounted on; field, garrison or naval?

     None of the above.  This was a siege gun and would have been mounted on siege carriage or, if used in a more permanent earthwork fortification or a seacoast fort, it, most likely, would be on a Wooden, Front-Pintle, Seacoast, Barbette Carriage.  Thanks so much, Double D, for the nice pics of this gun.  I bet your new winter-time motto could be:  "Have snow-shovel, will find cannon".  You are lucky to have this rare gun so close to where you live.  

     Anybody else find any cannon lately?  Got pics?

Regards,

Mike and Tracy

Would the Wooden, Front-Pintle, Seacoast, Barbette Carriage be the one listed in AOP plans No. 83 Civil War 12 Pdr Siege Gun on a Wooden Siege Carriage and or  No. 90 Civil War 32 Pdr Seacoast Gun on a Wooden Front Pintle Barbette Carriage and shown in this picture?



I need to get over to Kalispell and take some non snow covered cannon pictures.

[Double D]

Two weeks ago I got down to the Big Hole Battle field and found this MTN Howitzer.

Google Earth coordinates: 45°38'28.68"N   113°38'36.24"W

Spotted this gun...

















Very difficult to photograph indoors siting in a bright sunny window.

The Part Rangers told me they have all the accessories and accouterments for this gun in their warehouse in their original shipping containers. If some one wanted to view these items, they can make and advance arrangements and they will be made available.

 Big Hole Battlefield

I asked the lady Rangers if they ever shot this cannon, they both got this silly grin and said no they weren't allowed to.  The last time it was fired was November 8th 1889 when it fired 41 shots to commemorate Montana's admission to the union as a state.  40 shots for the previous 40 states and the 41st  a massive overload which broke the carriage.  According to the Rangers, when the carriage of this cannon broke in 1889, the Army repaired it as was still an active piece. The Rangers said in the 1950's or 60's the carriage was again rebuilt as the wood had rotted badly.  They also said the original metal hardware was used for the rebuild.  The only marking that I could find on the gun or carriage was on the muzzle.  I know I looked...the Rangers let me climb up on their display and look.  I was their first visitor that day, at 3 O'clock in the afternoon.

This as the actual Cannon used at the battle of the Big Hole. it fired two shots and was over ran by the Nez Perce.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Big_Hole

[Terry C.]

I like your photos of the 24 pounder iron siege gun model 1840, the precursor the the model 1845 that we have downtown.

The major difference is the lack of the straight reinforce in the chamber area, but I did notice another subtle difference that doesn't really show up in the photo from cwartillery.

The rectangular vent piece on the 1840 stops short of the rim of the cascabel, on the 1845 it is longer and blends into the rim.

But do my eyes deceive me, or has someone run beads across the trunnions with an arc welder?  

There had to have been a better way!!!

[Terry C.]

Oh by the way, In Round Shot and Rammers there are detail drawings of both the siege and barbette carriages for the 24 pounder siege gun. They show the model 1845 in the drawings, but they are interchangeable.

[Double D]

I am going to try an find each of the guns in Montana from list Seacoast Artillery provided and add them to this thread.

Round Shot and Rammers also has a casemate carriage shown for a 24 Pounder...it sure would be interesting to find out which carriage this 24 PDR wore?

Did you notice the welded muzzle plug.

[Terry C.]

Did you notice the welded muzzle plug.

Not until you mentioned it.

That is just wrong. 

[seacoastartillery]

     This is a 24 Pdr siege gun on a wooden, front-pintle, barbette carriage at Fort Washington near DC.  This gun or your Kalispel gun could also be mounted on a front-pintle, casemate carriage or a heavy duty field, siege-gun carriage. By far the most common mount is the one pictured below.  This is an 1819 Model Siege gun, 24 Pdr. very similar in weight to the Kalispel gun.  It's a shame about those welds; the world has no shortage of paranoid people.  

Tracy and Mike

[Double D]

Went to the  Airport in Great Falls this morning to pick up South African Miniature  Cannon Club Cannonmiester Colin. I will spending the next week touring  Colin around  Montana.  On the way home from the Airport we decide to go to Fort Benton cannon spotting. 

Almost couldn't fine the first one,



A 3 inch Ordnance rifle.













First one I have seen that was patented.





Here is a close look at that date.

[RocklockI]

I like the barley corn front sight ! It looks like that crew meant to hit something 

Gary

Tell the SAMCC Cannonmiester Collin "welcome aboard to our little abode ."

[Double D]

We had to go to the other end of town find the other gun, MTN Howitzer.













This is Colins foirst  visit to the western hemisphere,  He spent the past week in Virginia visiting Civil war battle fields.

[KABAR2]

Am I seeing what I think I am seeing?



Consecutive numbers! Did these two cannon come west together once upon at time
I wonder if the records would give some light to this....

[gunsonwheels]

KABAR2

I wonder if the records would give some light to this...

Someone might check with Jim Bender... he is the keeper of the national registry of surviving CW ordnance:

m1861artillery@yahoo.com

[Double D]

Both  guns served to together at the battle of Big hole.

[Asron87]

DD I can't wait to check these cannons out. I'll be hiking in the area as soon as the snow melts and the lakes open up. Unfortunately when your snow melts it floods here so who knows when I'll be able to make a trip. 

[Double D]

A sad note on the cannon at the Big Hole  Battle Field.  Last year the  Visitor center was remodeled and the the display changed.  They now only display the cannon barrel and no carriage.  The Explanation given by the Ranger;  In the 1950's the wood in the carriage was so deteriorated that it had to be rebuilt.  It was rebuilt using the original hardware with new wood. During the recent remodel it was deemed improper to display the barrel on the carriage as the rebuilt carriage was not actually at the battle..

Political correctness run amok!

[Artilleryman]

You would think that if they were that concerned about the replacement wood that they would just make a note on the signage explaining the restoration process.