Gun Shows ain't what they used to be

[v-man]

Not finding deals like I used to. New and used guns are well above going rate. New rifles marked above MSRP and they won't budge. Used GP 100 marked at $625. He came down to $600. They're all over the auctions for $300 to $500. Fed 550 pack .22's now on Walmart shelves for $18.97 all between 25 and 28 bucks. Not against capitalism but these guys are all complaining that everyone is looking but not buying. It's no wonder. The local gun store is offereing better deals and they don't even set up at the shows anymore. Hardly any revolvers on the tables. All AR's and SA handguns. I understand why but every show for the last year has been a boring waste of time. What are you folks seeing in your neck of the woods?
Sorry if this should have been posted somewhere else.

[walks with gun]

    Up here in Mn. prices are nuts seems like dealers have a higher gun show price than what they have in their shops sometimes.  Also every gun show up in my neck of the woods now carries a full line of baseball cards beebie babies fish lures and jewlery.  Oh yeah sometimes they have a few guns and nylon holsters.

[bilmac]

They are probably figurine you will pay a premium for non papered guns.

[buck460XVR]

Been my experience around here also.  Guns are generally cobbled or overpriced with surface rust. 3 months later, another show, same dealer still has the same POS and is asking the same price. Bags of supposedly once fired brass with half of them having split necks and they want more than what you can order new Starline for. You overhear the dealers talking in the lobby and they blame the poor attendance and their poor sales on advertising or the weather. Outta the last five gun shows I went to, only thing that caught my interest was a cheap camo backpack  and the cute little redhead working concessions.

[spruce]

You pretty well summed it up v-man.

I can't help but chuckle when they complain about "lots of lookers, but no buyers" - as if their price tags had nothing to do with it!

I've found it more fun and productive to plan a road trip and hit half a dozen gun shops (or less if I run out of money!) rather than go to a gun show.

[fatercat]

guns ain't what they used to be

[His lordship.]

When I was in Minnesota the problem was the limited selection, and high prices, even saw rusty Enfield #4 rifles that the sellers were wanting too much money for, got to the point that I was only going to one or two big shows a year.  One regular dealer had several tables for handguns that were much higher priced than the shop's were asking for.  But I could find some deals on ammo, and it was interesting to at least look.

Now that I am in Austin, TX the small gun show that they have here is a waste of time.  Very limited number of tables, not much to even buy, and they were still asking for $7.00 to get in.  Really odd considering that Austin is pretty big and a pro-gun community.  I am to the point that I plan to check out the big shows in Houston and Dallas, sure I have to drive some, but that is the plan.  Can see other stuff while in town too.

I used to live in Portland, Oregon, good shows, but that was back in the 1980's and early 90's.   

[Brett]

I don't know what it cost to rent a booth at a show.  I think sometimes these dealers are trying to recover the cost of the booth on a single sale.   Like the rest of you I generally find better deals at the local gun shops.

[kshock]

$7.00 ?!? That is the good deal right there. Around here it is $10 to get in to browse the $55.00 primers and grossly overpriced but not that good of shape guns.

[rdmallory]

I go to sell. The last time I ordered a case a primers and took want I needed and sold off the rest at a gun show to pay  the Hazmat fee.

I paid $33 and divided the haz-mat fee over the three boxes I sold. At the time it was easy to get $40 a box when the tables were asking $55.


Doug

[Varmint Hunter]

Nothing new here in NY. For many years the shows were nothing more than something to do in an off season. I always bring plenty of cash in the hopes of finding a few good deals but they don't exist at gun shows. Even reloading components cost more at the shows, sometimes much more than mail order. You could save a few bucks on haz-mat fees if they had powder but most of the shows around here don't even allow it. Those that do don't have anything available that doesn't have a 1/4" of dust on it. I'm not interested in 10 yr old powder for full price.

I always see lots of old beat-up military rifles that nobody ever buys and lots of other ancient junk that has been put on display 100 times already. The dealers say that they spend a lot of time going to shows and pay good money just to set up (table fees,meals, gas, etc.) so they have to charge the prices that they ask. I don't begrudge a man his price but they also have to understand why hundreds of potential buyers (who also pay gas, meals, entry fees) walk right past their table without buying a thing.

It will be amazing if these shows can continue to exist unless something changes drastically.

[Autorim]

The above posts are generally true. I go to gun shows looking for model 617's. I found one 617 and one 17-6 no lug  - also found a really nice Browning .22 auto that had just been taken in trade. I usually look about the middle of the morning on Saturday for a quick walk thru then go back Sunday about closing time looking for a good cash deal. They are rare, but still out there. IME local dealers are still the best source.

[1marty]

I gave up going to gun shows. The military rifles are rusted or the barrels are shot out. One guy was selling 30-06 ammo. When I opened the box the bullets were green. he wanted over $20 a box. The guns are over priced and most look to scary to shoot.

[Bob Riebe]

At the Minn. shows I attended this year, prices are up but no worse than they have been for five or so years.

Ten years ago, I went to a show in southern Minn. and I looked at two Steven Browning shotguns; the gent said he would give me both for one hundred bucks, and they were used but in fairly good shape.
Now similar guns sell for plus or minus a few bucks 115 dollars each.

I saw a Union shotgun, for sale for two hundred bucks, heavily dirty with grease, I think as the action was very stiff and the gun felt greasy, but even if cleaned up it was in good shape, he should have cleaned up and then put a realistic price on it.
Too damn many lazy asses out there, selling "as is" crap.

At the same time I have found some very good prices at times. I found a full box of Bismuth, 25 not 5 or 10, for forty bucks.

[bilmac]

About the only place you can find buys around here is garage or yard sales, especially rural ones. I don't even think about going to auctions, prices are crazy there.

[Mikey]

I have to agree with the Varmit Hunter and the others that the shows these days are simply not what they used to be.  I haven't seen some fo the rusted junk the fellas in other states have seen but I have seen shows reduced in size, protested by anti-gun groups that have tables right next to the state police, and prices set to cover haz-mat fees and table fees that are usually about $50 per day.

Albany is about the worst place for a show.  When the city passed the ordinance restricting ownership and sales of 'assault rifles' within city limits it closed out about 50 of the 500 tables we used to see in the show:  gone are the AKs, ARs, SKSs and cases of 7.62x39mm ammo.  308 and 30-06 ammo can be found but only if you are willing to sell off your first-born.  It used to be that by the end of the show you could pick up a No1 Mk3 or N04 Mk1 Enfield for around $80, but not any more.  There used to be a dealer who came up from one of the more southern counties (no he didn't have a 'drawl') with some nice Mosins, Mausers and Enfields but when Ilast saw him he said it was going to be his last show in Albany because the city council decided that any former military weapon would constitute a 'assault weapon' especially if it had a removable magazine and a bayonet adapter.

So, I wait for the smaller mid-winter shows in places like Saratoga or Utica, or even the big Syracuse show.  Syracuse is commercial enough, but it is very large.  The smaller shows are great as you will find someone who is selling off Grandpa's old stuff and not charging two toes and a kneecap for it.  One other really big show, where you can find anything ya'll want, is the eastern states expo in Mass.  Even though Mass. has some wild laws, the gun shows still remind me a bit of the old ones back when....

[jlchucker]

The shows I've gone to in Vermont seem to be following the trend.  Lots of tables taken up by lots of shop owners who bring what's not moving to the show after wiping off the store dust.  These folks, along with other dreamers, then put price tags on guns and other stuff, based upon it appears, what's being asked on Ebay.  Lots of lookers but no buyers?  Guess what, guys--shoppers can check out prices on the internet as well as anyone.  For example, a bullet mold that sells brand new from Midway, Lee, or any other retailer is NOT worth twice as much used just because it's being sold at a show.  Likewise for lots of different guns, books, and other stuff.

[His lordship.]

When I do go to a show to do business I have had luck selecting the day and time for the business at hand.  For instance, if selling, I go early on a Saturday morning.  It never ceases to amaze me on how many of the dealers will run out of money to buy a gun by 11 AM.  I also deal with the other visitors and have sold rifles that way too.  For safety reasons I only sell handguns to an FFL holder.

If buying, I start negotiating on a rifle or ammo by the mid-afternoon of a Sunday, the last day for the event.  Many of these guys have told me that they don't want to haul that heavy stuff back home and are willing to deal on the price.  This works well in Minnesota, but in Oregon you need to visit earlier on a Sunday.  The Oregonians are not what I would call pro-business, they are laid back in temperament.  I was at a medium sized show in Portland and by 1PM half of the dealers had cleared out.  Despite lots of customers still there, and the dealers did have to pay to rent a table or two for the whole weekend.  Most of the Minnesotians will stay to the end of the day.

We all remember the shows from decades ago, the better prices and great selection of military surplus guns.  The one time we had a bad problem that I remember was during the early 1980's at the Minnesota shows.  There were lots of people who would setup tables with Michael Jackson stuff, women's jewelry, even baby cloths, and other totally non-gun junk!  Thankfully the Minnesota event promoters put up notices saying that there had to be a percentage of items that were gun related displayed on the tables.  But I still see some people at the Minneapolis and St. Paul shows selling beef jerky and pistachios.  Like I can't buy that stuff at a grocery store?!

[v-man]

Lots of replies and it seems we are all seeing some similarly disappointing trends at these shows. This past year the ATF has actually had a table set up at our shows. They say they are promoting firearm education and safety and taking FFL applications but I rarely see anyone talking to them and they spend a lot of time walking the floor. Can't pinpoint anything they are doing "wrong" but it's just the whole "Big Brother" thing. It could actually be appreciated if we felt they had a respect for our 2nd ammendment rights but everything we see and hear leads us to believe they are up to no good. Anyone think I'm off base here?

[williamlayton]

On one level I would be suprised if they did not have a presence at some of the big shows---depends on how they handle the small issues.

I stopped going too shows, except for time killing pastime, years ago. I began to notice that the offerings were as much or more than local shops.
I prefer to support local business's over folks from the outside.
NOW, the obsevation that there are not as many used guns and the quality of what is presented is lower is a valid observation.
I also notice that there are fewer "individuals" trying too sell their guns--and what they ask for them, if you can find one, is rediculous.
May be that folks are hanging onto the weapons they have rather than trade them around.
I have that habit.
Blessings

[Glanceblamm]

Lots of replies and it seems we are all seeing some similarly disappointing trends at these shows. This past year the ATF has actually had a table set up at our shows. They say they are promoting firearm education and safety and taking FFL applications but I rarely see anyone talking to them and they spend a lot of time walking the floor. Can't pinpoint anything they are doing "wrong" but it's just the whole "Big Brother" thing. It could actually be appreciated if we felt they had a respect for our 2nd ammendment rights but everything we see and hear leads us to believe they are up to no good. Anyone think I'm off base here?

It is something that the dealer, or person renting the table space here In IL takes seriously for sure, at least if they want to keep on selling. 

That FFL card has to be shown before a customer even touches a gun. The outline on these rules reads that the card must be displayed to the same dealer multiple times to examine each firearm on his table. We get around this of course but the dealer has to be comforatable with my presents. A little small talk, or leaving my card on the table goes a long way towards making the dealer comforatable about who I am not. Most of the dealers do see this as excessive Bureaucracy and red tape.

I attend Airshows and the attitude towards the FAA can be the same as it is not uncommon for the announcer to make (dry comments) on delays or what a pilot is doing cause "we must keep the FAA happy". The FAA is good of course but can be Quick to put a fly in the ointment like most government branches are capable of doing. I think that some of these young upstart's are just anxious to make a name for theirselves?

I like to attend the Gunshows as the fellowship alone is usually worth the admission price whether one is talking to a dealer or others in attendance.

I am there mainly to buy accessories and like to see what I am purchasing first hand. I also know that certain dealers will have the good stuff, such as Norma Brass tucked away at the bottom and is there for the asking.

The firearms for sale are much higher than in the past but many who come to the show have brought a "trade" in with them. I think that these dealers are geared up for a trade and will skin you for $50 to $75 (more if you let them) but usually both parties end up happy.

Cost have become prohibitive to go in flat footed, or with no trade, and expect to get a good price.

[SHOOTALL]

Here the "law" has many on the floor . Sting operations happen often . There was a dealer i got to know at the shows . He had a dealer set up next to him at a show and they started setting up togather at other shows . I got a AR from him all the paper work etc. He wanted me to pick it up at his home which I did . He ask if I wanted the parts to make it a 3 round burst . I declined . A few shows later i saw the dealer i had known and ask where his buddy was . He said don't ask he was a sting operation . I have been ask if i wanted parts to make carbines full auto later to find out the guy was a cop . Many friends have had like experinces . My advice is if you like to shoot or hunt and want to keep your rights then keep it legal . Don't even consider doing something illegal and don't engauge in talk about illegal acts or conspireing about doing illegal acts . If things seem unreal or to good they most likely are !
As far as prices here shows still offer deals . Consider we have hundreds of gun shops in Va. competition is heavy . I guess the dealers try to make it on volume of sales .  Airweight J frames still around 460.00 , Some glocks 500.00 + or - a few bucks , AR's as low as 7-800.00 . 870's in the 300+change . Ammo is all over the price board though. Used guns depend on who's selling . Best deals are a few hours before closing on the last day . Risk is you may have to go to the dealers store the next day to pick up your gun if the check is slowed down .

[His lordship.]

Speaking of visiting Feds...I was at a Minnesota show with an ATF table and one of their reps was manning it.  He was a young guy, probably a new hire and this was right after the Waco slaughter when the ATF killed all those people in Texas.  I saw guys who were at the show come up to him and give him an earful, no threats or swearing but they were not happy with the ATF.  I talked with him and his boss told him to come to the gun show to "answer any questions".  He was not happy to be there.  I have never seen the ATF appear since at any gun show.   

[DDZ]

There are a lot of people that show up at gun shows. At least that is the way it is around my neck of the woods. Dealers try to get top dollar for what they have on their table, because they figure, with that many people, there will be someone that pays what they want. As a couple of others have said here, the last hours on the last day is the only time to get a good deal at a gun show. The dealers don't drag all their products to a gun show and set up just to show them, then take them home. They are there to sell. What they have left at the end of a show they will be more willing to deal. 
   If you go to a gun show the first day and expect to get a good deal on a gun, you normally won't find one. I have traded some TC barrels at the closing of gun shows and feel that I did get good deals.   

The reason gun prices are high now is because of supply and demand. I've talked to a couple dealers that own small gun shops and their business is doing well. If people were not buying guns right now. You would find lower prices. If liberal democrats are good for one thing, its benefiting everyone in the gun business. From manufactures to sellers.     

[navylawdog]

Shootall is right about gun shows in Virginia. I went to several in Norfolk when I was stationed there and I found several good deals. Never had any money but I enjoy looking sometimes. I always try to buy some ammo though when I go. Seems like you can usually find at least one table that has some good prices on ammo. I think you guys are half right about the problem of why people just keep walking. The prices are steep yes, but really when was the last time you walked past a table and had something REALLY catch your eye? It seems like you have the tables with the prior mentioned junk but then you have the handgun tables that all have the same guns no matter which one you go to. If they would figure out a way to catch the customers eye then they have already won half of the battle.

Navylawdog

[williamlayton]

The last two guns I purchased were .327 Smiths--why two is another story.
I got one in trade at the Austin show. I had a weaopn I shot and loved but the ammo prices prevented me from shooting it much--and I won't own a weapon I can't shoot.
The trade provided me me the affordability too make the purchase.
The other was from a friend and I paid about what I paid at the show but got some ammo in the deal.
I don't know what fair is and what a good deal is--if you are looking for a particular product--except if the two parties can come too agreement, then that is fair.
I think that shopping the internet will get about as good a deal as running up and down the highway looking for a steal.
I just picked the Austin show because the drive is good and the country is pretty.
Blessings

[navylawdog]

a little off subject but how do those .327's shoot?

Navylawdog

[mechanic]

The last couple of shows I've gone to locally have been "slim pickins" for stuff I want.  I'm not into black guns, and thats about all they had.  Very few hunting weapons or collectibles, etc.  Only one Handi in the entire place.  Very few bolt guns.  One table of militaria.  One with a few levers. 

Lots of cheap knives, cheap stun guns, and such junk.

Ammo was scarce and expensive.  Hopefull the next one will be back to expectations, because I'm a sucker to go anyway!

[His lordship.]

Yeh, those AR-15's are quite vogue these days, the dealer's tables are predominent with them.  With the new gas piston types coming out and making the original AR's obsolete it will be interesting to see if the fashion of Eugene Stoner's gun reduces some as the new gas types are expensive.  This way the tables will have something new to see.

[SHOOTALL]

The show in Richmond Va over the weekend was a good show . Lots of different stuff. Everything from Purdy's to SKS's , Yep more SKS's but still more Purdy's than I had funds for . As for the AR's most likely the system in use will remain in many guns as it works well in hunting guns