Mild recoil 243?

[bikerbeans]

Below is a quote from a major online/brick & mortar retailer regarding a 243 youth model gun.  I have been amazed at the amount of recoil of the 243s I have shot, all borrowed I have never owned one.  Maybe my friends are slipping me hot loads to test for them?


The ************* is now available in a compact model that's perfect for youth and small-statured shooters – a great choice for a young hunter's first rifle. It comes chambered in the mild-recoiling .243 Winchester cartridge and arrives range-ready with a pre-mounted, bore-sighted 3-9x40mm scope. Matte-black stock, blued barrel, detachable four-round magazine.

[woodchukhntr]

It's all relative.  Try the same model in the same setup with .308's and than tell us which recoils less.  Also if you have been used to shooting .223's, then the .243 will have more recoil.  I just returned from the range where I shot my mew .223 Contender Super 16 barreled carbine.  It definately recoiled more than the same load in my Encore.

[bikerbeans]

10-4 on all being relative, just seemed a little misleading for someone with no shooting experience thinking that the gun wouldn't recoil on their 65 pound 9 year old daughter.

[helotaxi]

For a viable deer cartridge, the .243 is about as mild recoiling as it gets.  I've run nearly 100 rounds through mine in a session at the range.  It just doesn't kick much at all.  It's pretty loud though.

[diggler1833]

Well, you really won't find anything that is going to recoil less on a 9yr old than the .243 (for deer hunting).  In some states you can use a smaller caliber than that, but you are really putting a lot in hopes that the shot placement goes where it absolutely has to with a small caliber.

You can look into other ways of reducing recoil, most of which aren't too beneficial in the field.  You can add a new (soft) recoil pad, use a weighted sled to shoot off of, get a recoil shield (if one fits a 9 yr old), or add a muzzle break (best idea until you shoot with earpro off).

[vabowhntr]

I wish someone would make a factory bolt gun in 7 tcu or 6x45.  These to me would be excellent low recoiling, low noise signature rifles that would kill deer just as dead out to 200 yards or so.  Around here, I would never need a longer shot.  I recently found out I have weak retinas and would like a super low recoil deer rifle to hunt with.

[lucky guy]

Get the kid a 250 savage.  An oldie but goodie!  Check out the loads and you're looking at 35 grains H4895 to launch a 100 gr 25 cal bullet at 2900 ft.   A 243 needs 40 to 45 gr (5-10 gr more!) to launch a 95 gr the same vel.   Better selection of bullets too.

Savage offers it new in a couple models.        

[diggler1833]

I wish someone would make a factory bolt gun in 7 tcu or 6x45.  These to me would be excellent low recoiling, low noise signature rifles that would kill deer just as dead out to 200 yards or so.  Around here, I would never need a longer shot.  I recently found out I have weak retinas and would like a super low recoil deer rifle to hunt with.

Still might have a few Remington 700s around in the 6.8SPC.

[41 mag]

It's all relative.  Try the same model in the same setup with .308's and than tell us which recoils less.  Also if you have been used to shooting .223's, then the .243 will have more recoil.  I just returned from the range where I shot my mew .223 Contender Super 16 barreled carbine.  It definately recoiled more than the same load in my Encore.

Absolutely true. When my cousin and I were very young, our dads would get the itch to sight in and test loads starting around Labor Day weekend. We would do our very best to hide from them but they always seemed to find us and have us out to shoot at least one or two rounds from their 06's. Trust me when I say it was not a pleasant experience. Being I was a couple of years behind my cousin, and only around 5yrs old when this started I simply hated it, but did it none the less. I couldn't tell you if the loads were top end or not but even with a nice soft pillow between the stock and my shoulder it still pounded the snot out of me.

I did however learn that after shooting the '06 that a .243 was really nothing, and took my first deer with one at 7. It was game on then, I shot it as good or better than my pop on most outings, and used it up until he passed. I still have the rifle nice and clean sitting in the safe for one of my grandsons.

This said, my oldest grandson got in his head he wanted to shoot a hog at the ripe age of 3. So after a LOT of R & D I had a load that he could use in my Ruger Compact .308. Granted it was nowhere close to full tilt, it was very accurate and even though it still popped him pretty good, he shouldered up to it and practiced hard. Just two weeks before his 4th birthday he dropped this hog with it at 50yds.


If I were recommending a caliber for a young one several years ago I would easily have made the .243 a top pick. However since factory loads have now been made in reduced recoil loads, I would easily recommend the .308 over just about anything. Even now the boy above is only pushing about 60# and will be 9 this fall. He has grown up shooting and been around shooting his whole life. I believe that has more influence on things than anything else. He is now shooting a 6.5x55, I purchased for my daughter and hold his own against both her and myself on the range. 

There are endless options for a handloader, but for folks shooting strictly factory the .243 isn't all that bad, but a .308 with factory reduced loads in my mind is even better.

[nomosendero]

41Mag, thanks for sharing, great story & looks like you have a serious hunter/shooter in the making.

bikerbeans, don't forget the value of a stock that fits & a good recoil pad. There is no reason why a 243 or a bigger caliber with reduced loads can't be made acceptable.

[bikerbeans]

My kid is kinda recoil/noise sensitive.  17HMR bull barrel bolt gun is all she will shoot.  Going to try cast lead in my 223 H&R over trail boss and see if a low velocity, low noise round will get her into centerfires.  I tried 38 spc. target loads in a borrowed 357 H&R last year and she fired 2 and gave it back.  Year older maybe this year she will move up a bit, if not I'll keep buying the 17s.

BB

[41 mag]

Bikerbeans,

Your on the right track. Having been there done that with several youths, they are all different. Keep it fun for them and even when moving up to larger calibers tell them, we're only going to shoot a couple this time, and add to it as you go along. Shoot a couple of the larger calibers then back of and let them run through as many smaller calibers as they want. Might eve alternate while a barrel is cooling on the smaller one.

The grandson loved shooting the M1 Carbine after the .308 at first. Then he simply wanted to shoot up all the .308's I had with me. Now he still don't want to try the bigger rifles yet, but is really getting the itch to shoot further. He knows that further means bigger, but he also knows where we hunt a nice buck can easily walk by at that range and he has to sit and watch it instead of being able to shoot it.

With the 6.5 he has shot to 200yds and groups very well, and could easily put one through the vitals of a deer. However I haven't let his 100yd limit expire just yet.

[no guns here]

sort of one of those things that don't make much sense to me...

They market "youth rifles" in lite weight .243's, 7mm-08's and .308's.  Ever noticed that all those "youth rifles" have thin, light barrels and shortened synthetic stocks?  I think a better "youth rifle" would be have a shortened wooden stock (heavier), a shortened heavy barrel (maybe 20"-22"), a Hogue overmolded stock, (easy gripping), a decelerator butt-pad and would be chambered in a something short and lite like a .300 Whisper or 6.8SPC.

Why would I want to give my kid a .243 in a 6.5 pound rifle.  Yeah, my 6mm Rem doesn't kick much at all in a my wood-stocked, heavy barreled Ruger M77 but you put that in a Model 7 size and weight rifle and hand it to a 8 year old and it's a whole different story.

I'm trying to put together my ideal kids rifle now but funds are a bit tight right now.  I have a G2 with a 6.8 carbine barrel (bull) for it.  I may use this for my son's first deer rifle.  I'll cut a stock down, put a good pad on it, put one of those cushioned cheek pieces on it and then put a scope on it.  If I can get the weight up to 8.5 or 9 pounds it shouldn't kick at all for him.  If it is too lite I'll add some more weight into the stock.  Don't really care about portability, we will more than likely be hunting out of stands/blinds.


NGH

[diggler1833]

Good point about adding weight.

I think that they keep the weight down so as to not tire the kid out if they have to walk.  Just a guess though.

[41 mag]

sort of one of those things that don't make much sense to me...

They market "youth rifles" in lite weight .243's, 7mm-08's and .308's.  Ever noticed that all those "youth rifles" have thin, light barrels and shortened synthetic stocks?  I think a better "youth rifle" would be have a shortened wooden stock (heavier), a shortened heavy barrel (maybe 20"-22"), a Hogue overmolded stock, (easy gripping), a decelerator butt-pad and would be chambered in a something short and lite like a .300 Whisper or 6.8SPC.

Why would I want to give my kid a .243 in a 6.5 pound rifle.  Yeah, my 6mm Rem doesn't kick much at all in a my wood-stocked, heavy barreled Ruger M77 but you put that in a Model 7 size and weight rifle and hand it to a 8 year old and it's a whole different story.

I understand your thinking. Even when hunting from a stand however a heavier rifle can be a bit much for a kid. I had that issue with my grandson and daughter before him. Both could easily shoot from a bench where they didn't have to hold up the front part of the rifle. However when it came to shooting from a stand or rest the weight was too much for them to hold with out the rifle wanting to tip down.

The little Ruger my grandson used weighs only 6.5# hunt ready magazine full. The loads were reduced as well. This made for a great match for him as the shorter stock fit him pretty well.

My daughter, well she hunted with a Remington pump in .243 for three years before she got a chance at a deer. The morning she did it was in the upper 20's and the wind was blowing mid 20's gusting even more. We sat in my Ramcharger to keep te wind off as all of our stands were open to the elements. When the deer came out across the back pasture she rolled down the window and grabbed up my 25-06 all the while me telling her not too. Well after a 185yd perfect shot and dead deer, it was hard to argue with the result.

[john keyes]

I bought my kid a 788 in 6mm and loaded some 80gr bullets at starting loads, he was six at the time.

[hillbill]

the biggest detraction from the 243 short barrelled rifle is the noise and muzzel blast.ive killed tons of deer with them and let kids shoot them. make absolute sure they wear ear protection and i mean all the time!ive never had anyone complain about the kik.but they will ring yur ears.my model seven does have a nice recoil pad, that may help.

[no guns here]

Sorry the "stand" I was talking about would be better descrided as a "shooting house".  A rail with carpeting on the edge to kill the sound.  Nothing to hold up...  In a ground blind I had some shooting sticks to rest the rifle on.  Even from a regular climber, I have rarely shot without a support of some kind.  Sometimes it's the tree, sometimes its the rail on my stand.  I have also used a mono-pod.  That's why I don't worry about the weight of the rifle for kids.  I'm not expecting them to hold up a heavy rifle until they get older.


NGH

[41 mag]

Sorry the "stand" I was talking about would be better descrided as a "shooting house".  A rail with carpeting on the edge to kill the sound.  Nothing to hold up...  In a ground blind I had some shooting sticks to rest the rifle on.  Even from a regular climber, I have rarely shot without a support of some kind.  Sometimes it's the tree, sometimes its the rail on my stand.  I have also used a mono-pod.  That's why I don't worry about the weight of the rifle for kids.  I'm not expecting them to hold up a heavy rifle until they get older.
NGH

I can relate to all of your type rest. The thing with our hunting was our "stands", might be a chair by a tree with a few limbs around it or in the case of me and the grandson, a two person tree stand with only one section of ladder on it. It was just high enough were we put it, to actually be about ground level with the surrounding terrain. All there was for him to rest on was the front rail, and with him having to sit on my knee to be high enough for that, it hampered both of us in trying to keep things on an even tilt for him to shoot, and me to watch the hogs. Luckily for me he is a darn good shot so I just had to look over his shoulder to watch them hit the dirt. Trust me when I say, the first time I fully expected to have to go track it down. I was however very impressed with his cool and ability to concentrate for almost 15 minutes of having to hold the rifle up and just as he was about to shoot have to hold up due to the nervous hog. When he finally got the shot he wanted he said OK and I clicked the safety off and the hog dropped to the shot.

There are just so many variables out in the field, and with young ones, it is hard to get them in positions or get everything set up and ready while a deer or something is looking that you need the rifle to be the least of your worries.

Yes we even had to put on hearing protection as well before he could shoot. I got a set of electronic muffs, and highly suggest the Peltor's for any youth. They are small enough to not be obtrusive but they can be turned on so they can hear you whispering easily and at the shot it blocks out the noise. I use them with one of my braked magnums, and figure if they work for that beast, the .308 isn't an issue.

Good luck to all who have the little ones out, I wish the best for all. IT is really something to be there beside them when it all comes together and they make a great shot. It brings it all full circle.   

[dakota954]

if you want to get a kid into shooting and keep them interested in guns and shooting and all that happy crap you have to make it fun. even i got bored and a 9 year old is going to have a 2 minute attention span and even less if theyre getting hurt. get some bottles of water or something that reacts when hit. i got my sister into shooting by setting up a bunch of aerosol cans and having her shoot them at 30 yds. also keep the distance pretty short. they may not be able to steady a rifle and shoot good groups at 100yds, thus making them get agrivated and give up. i started with a rossi youth rifle in 22,243, and 20 gauge and i was scared as hell of the 243. my dad would hold me when i was firing so i didnt fly back and it made me more secure and it cuts down on the flinch

[BBF]

Depending on the range why not something chambered in a pistol cartridge ?

[bikerbeans]

Dakota,

10-4 on keeping the kids interested and entertained at the range.  I put clay pidgeons on the berm at 50 yards and let my daughter chew them up with the 17HMR.  My wife & kid are the same way, they want to see something happen when they shoot.  I can shot a 1/2" group at a 100 yards but if it isn't perfectly centered on the Bullseye they don't see why I am happy. 

BB

[dakota954]

If you really want to get em hooked get some tannerite(or make your own) and set that off with a well placed round. I guaruntee that'll make them wanna shoot. Or use bags of flour or watermelons or whatever you can come up with. I love to shoot clay pigeons but even better is spray deodorant. Once I'm done with it I set it up in the back yard and put 22s through em. They shoot toward the sky. Also(I havnt tried this but I will soon) get cannonfuse and tie it around the aerosol can and shoot it while lit. It may ignite and make a big fireball

[swifty22]

OK guys/gals, I bought my son a Mod. 7 Youth .243 for his deer/black bear rifle in 1998. It has a 18 1/2 bbl. and weighs 6.34# nekked & with a 6X Luepold, sling and 4 rounds, 7.62# on the nose.  We go to MT gopher shooting every year for 10 days and shoot the 17HMR to 340 WM (and my fav, 375/06 Ackley Imp.) & sometimes about a dozen in between. (REALLY like my Stevens 44 1/2 2WRM). Any how when we first went I loaded 19 gr. of H4198 ( see Speer Books) w/cheap (then!!!) 80 gr. soft points. He didn"t develop a flinch, the ammo shot little bitty groups and the 8 oz. gophers didn't stand a chance out to 150 yds. Now the Mod. 7 has a 24" 260 Rem. bbl. and numerous WT deer in NE Wa. to it's credit. (as well as about a dozen w/the 243 BBL mostly w/100 Nosler PT's and max loads of H4350-It"s a very popular family rifle!) I am only saying that for young (smaller) shooters PLEASE taylor the loads for them. Factory full power loads in a light 18 1/2 bbl. rifle 243 Win. are REALLY LOUD and have more recoil than they can tolerate on a sustained basis w/out developing a flinch. By the way my first CF rifle was a Huskvarna 243 fom the early 1960's which I shot the barrel out of w/surplus H-4831 ( 50cents/pound) and Speer reject 80gr. soft pts.( buck a hundred) from "Sportsmans Surplus" and  the "Trap House" in Spokane (remember them guys?). Now he is in grad. school in NY and is amazed at how much bigger that real ground hogs are than rockchucs are here. Thanks -Mudddy

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive boughten 3 of my grandsons 243s and have two more to buy for when there old enough and i will again go with 243s. Im really not a big fan of the round but was looking for something mild recoiling that theyd be able to easily get ammo for someday when im not around to load for them. All 243s because i dont want 5 differnt calibers to load ammo for them. Bottom line is if a kid cant handle the light recoil of full power 100 grain 243s hes just not ready to hunt yet.

[no guns here]

Wow... I guess full power .243 loads are the measuring stick for hunting...  I'll have to remember to tell all the Texans that shoot deer with .223's.  So, a kid just wouldn't be hunting if he only used a 6.8 or a .357 rifle?  Plenty of choices that don't involve the .243.


NGH

[securitysix]

My kid is kinda recoil/noise sensitive.  17HMR bull barrel bolt gun is all she will shoot.  Going to try cast lead in my 223 H&R over trail boss and see if a low velocity, low noise round will get her into centerfires.  I tried 38 spc. target loads in a borrowed 357 H&R last year and she fired 2 and gave it back.  Year older maybe this year she will move up a bit, if not I'll keep buying the 17s.

BB

Noise is probably most of it.  I've noticed that noise bothers most newer shooters even when actual recoil doesn't.  It also seems to be more of a problem with females than males, in my experience.  Of course, it also seems like fewer females have a flinch than males, again, in my experience.

A .22 LR is cheaper to feed and probably quieter than a .17 (never been around a .17 being shot, so I could be wrong).  If she'll do the .223 over trail boss combo, you might look at a .22 Hornet for her.  They can be had in the H&R, or you can get a Contender for her. 

That said, if the .38 Special target loads were too loud for her, I'd wonder what they were loaded with.  I like 3.5 - 4 grains of Bullseye under a 158 grain LSWC.  It's fairly quiet and low recoil out of a 4" revolver.  Never tried it out of a long gun, but I'd imagine it would be quieter still, what with another 14" of barrel and no cylinder gap...

[Lloyd Smale]

sure theres lots of choises but when picking a gun or load for a young hunter you have to keep in mind that more times then not the shots they make arent going to be surgicaly placed. I started my first wife and my son with 250 savages using a slightly reduced 87 grain load and in just the first year tracked 4 deer that were marginaly hit. Would a bigger caliber or even a stouter load helped. Theres no way to actually prove it but my guess would be yes. We do crop damage deer shooting and probably take a 100 deer a year. Ive seen what various guns and loads do. An expample would have been last night. I had my 300 win mag with 165 ballistic tips. Three deer were shot with it. All about 100lb does. All dropped in there tracks even the one that was shot on the run by my buddy and was shoot right in the middle of the gut sack. It was a mess to gut but that deer went down right now. Id bet a dime to a dollar that a reduced load in the 243 would have had us tracking a wounded deer. Ive bought 243s for all of my grandsons. Mostly because the recoil will full power loads is still light enough for an 11 or 12 year old and ammo can be bought anywhere which might be a plus someday when im not around to load for them. Was it a good choise. Well im up in the air about it. Something like a 708 loaded down with a 120 at 243 recoil levels would no doubt have been better and my oldest grandson who is 14 right now has not a bit of problem with an 06 or even a 300 mag so the year or two he was recoil sensitive has passed quickly. Bottom line is i stand behind my statement. I too have shot deer with 223s and even the hornet but i know that if im using a marginal caliber I have to be exteamly patient to get the proper shot and have to even pass on some deer and most young kids dont have the maturity to do that

Wow... I guess full power .243 loads are the measuring stick for hunting...  I'll have to remember to tell all the Texans that shoot deer with .223's.  So, a kid just wouldn't be hunting if he only used a 6.8 or a .357 rifle?  Plenty of choices that don't involve the .243.


NGH

[tigercat]

hey guys my daughter is real recoil sensitive but loves deer hunting i bought her a marlin xs7 in 243 now i cant buy bullets fast enough she would shoot that gun all day if i let her. i really like that gun to thinking about picking one up for myself in 308

[mannyrock]

Just my thoughts:

    The .357 Magnum, in any rifle, is about as No-Recoil and Low Muzzle Blast as you will ever get for shooting deer.   Keep the range at 80 yards, with a broadside shot, and premium hunting ammo (such as Core-Bon ) and you will have no problems.

   So, get a handi rifle for the girl, let her practice with .38 P+ rounds (virtually zero recoil), and then just adjust the scope upward to sight in the .357 Magnum before the hunt.  Don't tell her that you are changing the round to the .357 Mag on the day of the hunt.  If she takes a shot at a deer, she will be so flushed with adrenalin, and focused on the target, that she will never notice the slight increase in recoil from the Mag round.  I doubt she will even mention it.

   The noise, muzzle blast, and muzzle jump of the .243 in a short barrel is too much for a small child to start with.  You will turn her off from shooting and hunting forever.

Mannyrock