Author Topic: Why SB1 frames? (Read 960 times)

v8r · « **on:** May 02, 2010, 05:19:54 PM »

I sure do see lots of posts saying that the .357 and .44 mag rifles are being built on SB1 frames. Why is this? If it is cost, then I would gladly pay a little more for a SB2 frame. Maybe the additional strength is not needed,but I don't believe it is necessarily wrong for a rifle to be overly strong.Is this something that has happened since the Remington take over ?I believe my .357 is on a SB2 frame, but it has been 7 years ago since I purchased it.

Spanky · « **Reply #1 on:** May 02, 2010, 06:20:28 PM »

My old 44mag is on an SB2 frame. It was made in '96 I believe.
I'm sure the SB1 frame is cheaper to build and if you don't need the extra strength (and cost) of the SB2 then why use it?
I would think all the chamberings that were offered on the old H&R singles would be OK on the SB1 frames. The company won't actually give out the numbers as to what the frame can handle but if the old frames handled it why wouldn't the new ones??

Spanky

v8r · « **Reply #2 on:** May 03, 2010, 03:35:09 AM »

I'm sure they are strong enough, but it makes more manufacturing sense to use the same frame on all the rifles.I'm sure it probably wouldn't add a great amount to the overall cost of the rifle.Just mainly curious as to why the change in the last few years.

mike@nds · « **Reply #3 on:** May 03, 2010, 05:03:34 AM »

I spoke with a gal from NEF at an ATF sponsored manufactures conference last year and asked the same question.

She said they had to keep the SB1 frame on some models to be price competitive with the Rossi.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** May 03, 2010, 05:47:58 AM »

Just an FYI, H&R first offered the SB1 357 and 44mags well before Remington bought H&R/Marlin, they were in the 2008 catalog which was out by November 2007, Remington didn't acquire H&R/Marlin until the end of Jan 2008.

Tim

http://www.hr1871.com/News/pressreleases.asp#remington

petemi · « **Reply #5 on:** May 03, 2010, 06:41:33 AM »

I think it would make sense to offer the SB2 frame as an extra cost option. I think it would net them more barrel sales. They could do it all through their shotgun line also.

Pete

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #6 on:** May 03, 2010, 07:02:03 AM »

It is misleading and probably dangerous for H&R (remington) to put barrels marked SB2 on SB1 frames such as the .44 mag. The factory will not do it, but that won't stop tinkerers. It will lead to someone fitting a high pressure barrel on the frame since the frames are not marked.

mrcoolid · « **Reply #7 on:** May 03, 2010, 07:02:45 AM »

I agree with Pete...

I have 2 handi's... 44 mag and a .357... on sb1's

I would be interested in buying barrels if they fit and if it was safe to do so...

I would of bought the same calibers on sb2's if I had the option...

Maybe someone who makes the decisions, is reading these posts...

Mike

wreckhog · « **Reply #8 on:** May 03, 2010, 08:48:52 AM »

If shotguns were sold with SB2s for the same price ($119) at Dicks then tell me why I would ever buy a whole rifle. It ain't the cost of manufacture. H&R sells .270 combos for about the same price as .357 combos.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** May 03, 2010, 09:28:35 AM »

Factory SB1 rifle frames are specially marked, accessory barrel fitted frames should be marked too, maybe they are, but I don't recollect anyone mentioning it.

Tim

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #10 on:** May 03, 2010, 11:48:43 AM »

I have talked to someone that I know in Remington management about H&R's. He agreed that it is possible to build barrels and frames that are interchangable, and that it has been discussed, but would go no farther than that.

I suggested that they should start making them fully interchangable after a certain serial number and mark then as such. He smiled.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #11 on:** May 03, 2010, 11:50:50 AM »

You've been down a well worn path. $:-\$

Tim

petemi · « **Reply #12 on:** May 03, 2010, 12:39:35 PM »

The dumbest thing in the world is marking the barrels SB2 and not the frames.

Pete

necchi · « **Reply #13 on:** May 03, 2010, 12:47:08 PM »

Guy's, it just simple math and the bottom line.

They do offer accessory barrels, but they make and sell guns primarily.
Besides, how would one become a true Handiholic with just one all porpose frame?

and have everything fit right,
cheesh,that'd take the fun right out of it

Rustyinfla · « **Reply #14 on:** May 03, 2010, 01:02:03 PM »

Well I must admit, on the surface the idea of being able to swap barrels between different frame does sound like a good idea. That was under the old price structure. The way it is now I'd just as soon buy the whole rifle or shotgun and keep everything with it's own frame, but then I only have a dozen or so. It just makes it easier for my feeble mind to keep things straight. That's not to say that if I found just a barrel for sale in a caliber that I just had to have that I wouldn't pick it up.

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 03, 2010, 01:09:30 PM »

I am in the camp to making SB2 frames for all, even shot guns and BP. I think paying $10 or even $25 dollars more is well worth it. BUT there are lots of folks that will buy on price and if they can get brand X for $10 cheaper, they figure they got a better deal. There are others that buy a 20 gauge shot gun for a young gun and never plan on doing any thing else with the gun, so why pay more than you need to? H&R (Remington) have to look at bottom line costs, not value for the dollar. I still do not like it, but what can you do? They have a business to run and they are in it to make money, after all. Good Luck and Good Shooting

necchi · « **Reply #16 on:** May 03, 2010, 02:37:25 PM »

Quote from: LaOtto222 on May 03, 2010, 01:09:30 PM

There are others that buy a 20 gauge shot gun for a young gun,,,,

Man, I swallowed that, hook line and sinker,,that's what got me started,,a simple, inexpensive, functional gun for the boy to call his own.
Got it in the spring, shortened and installed a pad before he saw it, I handed it too'im and said "This is your christmas present,,I can put it back in the box till then or we can go shooting today,,"
You guy's KNOW what the answer was,,one simple thing like that and now look what it's led too,,their the first thing I look for at gun show's, custom stock's, all the tuning, a NEED for more frames and extra barrels,,
It's,,It's,, well it's an awfull afliction,,

Fred M · « **Reply #17 on:** May 03, 2010, 02:42:01 PM »

First of all there are quite a few of Handi owners that don't believe in switch barrels including myself. So if I wanted a a 20g
SS Handi shotgun I buy one whole and not worry about what the
Frame is like. A SB1 would be just fine.

There is one other consideration and that is the trigger pull, a good shotgun pull is about 6lbs and that would not do for a rifle no matter what caliber. O/U usually have a trigger pull that is the same as the weight of the shot gun, or about 7lbs.

For this reason alone a shotgun frame is not suitable for interchangeable rifle barrels. Of cours lot of people that butcher the Handi shotguns would not know about that

wreckhog · « **Reply #18 on:** May 03, 2010, 06:15:30 PM »

Quote from: Fred M on May 03, 2010, 02:42:01 PM

First of all there are quite a few of Handi owners that don't believe in switch barrels including myself. So if I wanted a a 20g
SS Handi shotgun I buy one whole and not worry about what the
Frame is like. A SB1 would be just fine.

There is one other consideration and that is the trigger pull, a good shotgun pull is about 6lbs and that would not do for a rifle no matter what caliber. O/U usually have a trigger pull that is the same as the weight of the shot gun, or about 7lbs.

For this reason alone a shotgun frame is not suitable for interchangeable rifle barrels. Of cours lot of people that butcher the Handi shotguns would not know about that

Nor would H&R with their shotgun/rifle combos sold for the last 40 years.

v8r · « **Reply #19 on:** May 04, 2010, 03:56:55 AM »

Thanks Quick for the info about the sb1 rifle frames being marked.Are they all marked as such, or is this something recent? Is this the definitive way of telling a SB1 rifle frame from a SB2 rifle frame.

Am I a little late to the game or has this been gone over before.I have been a member for awhile, but have been out of the game for a few years, so I am trying to catch up on the info.I just recently purchased a .45 colt carbine that rekindled my weakness for these rifles.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #20 on:** May 04, 2010, 06:14:44 AM »

Only the 357 and 44 mag SB1 rifle frames as well as their combo versions have been marked from the factory as far as I know, that's been since they were first available in early 2008, regular SB1 shotgun and all SB2 frames aren't marked. Other than that marking, the only way to tell them apart is their appearance which is shown in the FAQs with pics, the internal appearance is different as well as the tang area construction which is skeletonized on an SB2, solid on SB1.

Tim

Fred M · « **Reply #21 on:** May 04, 2010, 07:56:20 AM »

wreckhog
You can be sure they know about it, but they are more interested in selling cheap combos where the triggers are neither fish nor fowl. Thanks for you knowledgeable reply.