Author Topic: New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist  (Read 2436 times)

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Offline XxLT250RxX

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New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist
« on: May 03, 2010, 04:11:28 PM »
Thought you guy might like to see what one of my students has been up to.  I didn't have a powder can for reference.  Those are 6" dial calipers in the first pic.  They may give you idea of the size.  
 




Offline barefiel76

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Re: New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2010, 04:19:21 PM »
Looks pretty cool. The measurements seem to be pretty good.

Offline lance

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Re: New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2010, 04:20:29 PM »
Looks good to me.
PALADIN had a gun.....I have guns, mortars, and cannons!

Offline Terry C.

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Re: New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2010, 05:21:11 PM »
What is that finish? Bead blasted in the white, or grey powdercoat?

Offline DarbinCo

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Re: New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2010, 05:32:00 PM »
Very nice!

Offline XxLT250RxX

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Re: New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2010, 05:56:31 PM »
What is that finish? Bead blasted in the white, or grey powdercoat?

Bead blasted with a clear coat to stop rust.  He is not sure if he will leave it like that or not.

Offline moose53

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Re: New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2010, 06:35:55 PM »
Nice job, that is how I started . My shop teacher let me make a cannon in collage machine shop class , and it ruined me . I changed careers and now have my own machine shop .  ;D

Offline BoomLover

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Re: New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2010, 07:23:46 PM »
Good Job! 
"Beware the Enemy With-in, for these are perilous times! Those who promise to protect and defend our Constitution, but do neither, should be evicted from public office in disgrace!

Offline KABAR2

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Re: New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2010, 07:30:12 PM »
I like it! Keep up the good work start them young, they are the next generation that will keep this hobby alive,
I hope you show him this thread.
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline Double D

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Re: New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2010, 07:41:22 PM »
Be sure and point those students to his board so we can enchant their education...

Offline Ex 49'er

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Re: New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2010, 08:10:11 PM »
Sweet lines. How big is the bore? Great job!

Got to be at least a dozen 'atta boys' here.
When you're walking on eggs; don't hop!!

Offline carronader

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Re: New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2010, 01:43:40 AM »
I am no machinist , but I see smooth , clean , contoured , work like that shouldn't need to be mm perfect, others can judge that , he's heading towards artistic. Such a pity he's fallen into the clutches of the metal manglers.. :P   I'd love to see what he could do with wood.
Scottish by birth and by heart.

Offline XxLT250RxX

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Re: New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2010, 02:45:15 AM »
I like it! Keep up the good work start them young, they are the next generation that will keep this hobby alive,
I hope you show him this thread.

Be sure and point those students to his board so we can enchant their education...

I told him I was going to post it here.  I am sure he will dropping by.  I hope he joins in the discussions. 

Sweet lines. How big is the bore? Great job!

Got to be at least a dozen 'atta boys' here.

It was designed to shoot 50 caliber muzzle loading projectiles.
I am no machinist , but I see smooth , clean , contoured , work like that shouldn't need to be mm perfect, others can judge that , he's heading towards artistic. Such a pity he's fallen into the clutches of the metal manglers.. :P   I'd love to see what he could do with wood.
Metal manglers, that's funny. ;D


Thanks guys, I am sure he appreciates all  the kind words.

Offline carronader

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Re: New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2010, 06:05:03 AM »
Don't get me wrong , I love Iron work , Bronze , it's the combination of both that gets me. nothing beats a good barrel on a good carriage. Old churches , cathedrals , castles , we've been to a few , and some of the ironwork is awesome . Tourists in UK are oooooo  and aaaaaaa ing at stained glass , huge stone arches , I'm sneaking around looking for old doors , handles and stuff. Cannons are the ultimate    but an old door keeps my addiction under control.   Tracy , take a big petard to take the Mary Watts door down , ;D   is as strong as it looks. 
Scottish by birth and by heart.

Offline Ex 49'er

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Re: New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2010, 06:09:56 AM »
   Tracy , take a big petard to take the Mary Watts door down , ;D   is as strong as it looks. 

Don't shoot the stone work. That stuff is a work of art all by its' lonesome.
When you're walking on eggs; don't hop!!

Offline Zulu

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Re: New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2010, 08:15:51 AM »
Don't get me wrong , I love Iron work , Bronze , it's the combination of both that gets me. nothing beats a good barrel on a good carriage. Old churches , cathedrals , castles , we've been to a few , and some of the ironwork is awesome . Tourists in UK are oooooo  and aaaaaaa ing at stained glass , huge stone arches , I'm sneaking around looking for old doors , handles and stuff. Cannons are the ultimate    but an old door keeps my addiction under control.   Tracy , take a big petard to take the Mary Watts door down , ;D   is as strong as it looks. 

Carronader,
Beautiful ironwork on those doors.  I just finished all the ironwork for two more ammunition chests I am working on.  I have about 50 hours in what you see for two chests.
Zulu






Zulu's website
www.jmelledge.com

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2010, 09:21:55 AM »
XxLT250RxX,
I think your pupil did an excellent job on this barrel (probably because he has a good teacher ;)), I really like the profile of the gun. I have just one minor criticism; it looks like the trunnions are placed to far forward on the barrel, making the preponderance to great at the breech. Having this situation is a lot better that the other way around, because I have a nice looking brass .56 caliber naval cannon that is front heavy, and I have to keep the capsquares tight or the barrel starts tilting down in front. With a breech heavy gun there's no negative as far as performance goes, it's just an aesthetic criticism. I can't tell this by looking at the field gun in the photos, because one photo shows the cannon angled to its right, which makes the preponderance look fine, and the second photo which displays the gun angled to its left makes it appear way breech heavy; it's by the placement of the tunnions as compared to the second reinforce ring, and the chase ring that gives it away.

This is the 11-inch gun that's just a little muzzle heavy (sorry about the dark photo), if you block out the cascabel you'll be able to notice that the trunnions are placed too far towards the breech.

 
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2010, 10:39:43 AM »
     Wow, I feel myself agreeing with Carronader!  That proves there IS a first time for everything.  I believe the "Up and coming Machinist" is, indeed, heading towards artistic and also that mm perfect is Not Required with such nice work.  Caronnader certainly has the eye for great looking doors and fine woodwork.  We will not be taking a Petard to Mary Watts' door ever; it's just too beautiful!  Mike and I really love old fortress architecture and spend many hours crawling over, under and around these works with reference books and cameras in hand.  Zulu, you're something else, what great looking iron-work!  Simply wonderful.

Tracy and Mike

Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2010, 12:20:34 PM »
 I believe the "Up and coming Machinist" is, indeed, heading towards artistic and also that mm perfect is Not Required with such nice work.

millimeter? master machinist? the candy :P 
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline dominick

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Re: New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2010, 03:45:26 PM »
Thought you guy might like to see what one of my students has been up to.  I didn't have a powder can for reference.  Those are 6" dial calipers in the first pic.  They may give you idea of the size. 
 





That's a nice lookin cannon!  Good job!

Offline XxLT250RxX

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Re: New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2010, 09:31:10 AM »
XxLT250RxX,
I think your pupil did an excellent job on this barrel (probably because he has a good teacher ;)), I really like the profile of the gun. I have just one minor criticism; it looks like the trunnions are placed to far forward on the barrel, making the preponderance to great at the breech. Having this situation is a lot better that the other way around, because I have a nice looking brass .56 caliber naval cannon that is front heavy, and I have to keep the capsquares tight or the barrel starts tilting down in front. With a breech heavy gun there's no negative as far as performance goes, it's just an aesthetic criticism. I can't tell this by looking at the field gun in the photos, because one photo shows the cannon angled to its right, which makes the preponderance look fine, and the second photo which displays the gun angled to its left makes it appear way breech heavy; it's by the placement of the tunnions as compared to the second reinforce ring, and the chase ring that gives it away.

This is the 11-inch gun that's just a little muzzle heavy (sorry about the dark photo), if you block out the cascabel you'll be able to notice that the trunnions are placed too far towards the breech.

 

He placed the trunnions a little to the front of the balance point.  I am not sure how much.  The gun in the picture is the little brother to the one in my avatar.  I borrowed the prints off this board about three years ago and I don't remember who posted them or I would give credit where credit is due.  I place the trunnions on mine according to that print.  The barrel is basically balanced.  I prefer it to be a little heavy in the back.  He decided to move them forwarded on his to accomplish this.  I did modify the profile on the front of the barrel some.  This may be why mine is balanced.  I guess I should have checked the balance on mine before I placed them. ::)

Thanks Boom J


Offline Cannoneer

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Re: New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2010, 11:07:36 AM »
XxLT250RxX,
Thanks for your response! You know there's a post by another member on this thread that seriously got me to thinking; oh no, I hope he (meaning you) didn't think that I was being a smart___ with my criticism, and I'm relieved that you didn't take it that way, because my intentions were sincerely meant to go far in the opposite direction. 
I know you're not new to the forum, but just in case I missed the opportunity to say this when you first decided to join in the revelry: Welcome aboard! :D
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline dan610324

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Re: New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2010, 11:50:40 AM »
balancing the barrel is very very difficult when you design a new build
with todays cad its not difficult , it can tell you exactly where the balancing point is

but on my latest design ( still just a drawing ) I only used the the old proportions based on calibers
after I finished the sketches I got a guy who made cad drawings from them for me .
when he finished the drawings he checked where the balancing point would be ,
believe it or not but it was just behind the trunnions .
that was without the 3 dolphins, so with them attached it will be a little further to the breach as they all are placed behind the trunnions

so I guess that the designers for barrels in the late 1600 did actually know what they was doing
I attach the drawings here , its an pdf
most of you older members here at the forum have probably seen them before , but for the new members it maybe can be interesting to look at
when you open the pdf , scroll down as it is actually 4 drawings
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline carronader

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Re: New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2010, 12:28:39 PM »
Is this a Swedish design Dan ?  ;)
Scottish by birth and by heart.

Offline dan610324

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Re: New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2010, 01:16:13 PM »
yes , completely swedish design
a few ideas stolen here and there
all proportions exactly the same as what was used in the mid 1600
muzzle and breach design stolen from this cannon dated 1665 (see first photo)
dolphins inspired from the second photo that is from a spanish cannon located at fort ticonderoga in USA
that photo I got from mike and tracy
the other photos is of the dolphin master that I made for this barrel
as it is equiped with a third dolphin instead of a cascable in the breach it makes it more an early to mid 1600 design
so if this would have been an old full size barrel I would have dated it by the style to somwhere in between 1620 and 1650 approximately .



Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2010, 05:45:32 PM »
Dan,
That's a good looking gun shown in the drawings. I was thinking that in the present time the cannon caster still has to have it all worked out before he makes his pattern, while the machinist that's improvising slightly, only has to turn the barrel, bore it, find the point of balance, and then place the trunnions a little ahead of that point.

Listen, I found this site a few weeks ago, and you're the first guy I thought of. I figured, yeah this is Dan's company, and he's on his way to becoming Sweden's first cannon making multi millionaire. ;)
This is one of those places where you have to contact them for prices, and that usually means that they're  expensive.   Salute of Sweden  Under "Our Cannons" click on the gun you want to see, then near the bottom of the page click on PDF for more photos.

RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline dan610324

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Re: New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2010, 10:37:27 PM »
noooo , thats not me , and Im happy it isnt .

THATS A crap COMPANY

a few years ago they went bankrupsy because the authorities sued them for pollution around their foundry
now they restarted with a new name and a fancy web design
but thats all they got , a new name and a fancy website

the quality of their barrels and carriages sucks , its pure crap .

they use the cheapest metal you can use , its called "rödmetall" in swedish , they translated it to red brass
Im not sure if thats the correct english name

they go out really hard about that they are located in karlskona , ok so what ??
its still a crap company , they have nothing to do with the world heritage
but thy use it as if it was the company who got the award

they have low quality sand castings in cheap metal , the dolphins are attached after the barrel is cast .
they are glued into some drilled holes , do you call that quality ??

the carriages is of the same low quality,
what they call "hand forged" is machine stamped parts from sheet metal

yes I know that this may sound as if Im trying to throw dirt on them , but its just facts

I got a pair of their small vasa cannon that I bought cheap on the swedish ebay
below you will see a few photos and you can judge by yourself
the small one doesnt even have that stainless liner they are talking about and is cast with a core .

the smaller barrel the more difficult it is to manufacture if you want a high quality
if I would produce anything with this quality I would be ashame

people get really deceived when they buy from them , for the price they ask for their low quality products you can buy an extremely high quality cannon

but as usual , its just my opinion
judge by yourself





Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline dan610324

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Re: New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2010, 10:55:46 PM »
next photo
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline dan610324

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Re: New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2010, 11:00:37 PM »
the last photo shows the  "hand forged" metal parts on the carriage
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline carronader

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Re: New Cannon Made By An Up And Coming Machinist
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2010, 01:48:21 AM »
Dan , the design of that carriage tells me they had access to correct , period drawings. For someones first attempt at a carriage it would be acceptable , selling it as a commercial item is criminal.Almost childlike woodwork.Cannot possibly be looking for repeat business.You have shown through your posts the high level of historic Swedish skill , it must break your heart to see what these clowns are doing.
Scottish by birth and by heart.