Author Topic: When a .45-120 just isn't enough...... (Read 6585 times)

miyata · « **on:** May 03, 2010, 04:23:58 PM »

A long awaited package arrived today, all the way from the USA to Tasmania.....

It contains a barrel, once a .500 S&W, and a package of unprimed brass for .450 Nitro Express No. 2.

Nope, I'm not making a .450 NE #2, I'm making a .499 Hubel Express.

The barrel was very kindly sourced by a fellow forum member and shipped to Ed Hubel to be reamed out to the .499 HE, before being returned and shipped to me. Ed also included a die to help me resize the .450 NE #2 brass to the HUGE .499 HE.

The barrel fits my little Ultra Hunter better than it's .45-120 barrel.....

Here's a close up of a .450 NE #2 in the chamber.....

and a comparison between a .45-120 shell and a .450 NE #2 shell....

It will look even bigger when it's resized to .500

and here's a comparison of my favourite cartridges....

(I have a Weatherby in .257 and a Merkel double rifle in 9.3x74R)

I currently load my .45-120 to about 4000 ft-lb. I plan to load the .499 HE to about 5300 ft-lb.

Stay tuned for updates and a range report.

mechanic · « **Reply #1 on:** May 03, 2010, 04:27:51 PM »

You fella's must be hunting armor plated elephants down that way!

bikerbeans · « **Reply #2 on:** May 03, 2010, 04:42:07 PM »

Let me know when you plan on shooting your Hubel, I'll set up a target in my backyard (NW Ohio) for you to shoot at!

Man I haven't reamed my BC to 45 120 yet and you have me thinking of larger artillery.

You better buy some ear plugs and hand them out to your Devils, don't want to have the little fellers go deaf.

BB

nomosendero · « **Reply #3 on:** May 03, 2010, 04:48:30 PM »

AtlLaw · « **Reply #4 on:** May 03, 2010, 04:56:07 PM »

$:-\$

Yah!?

well... you ain't so cool!

LongTom, time we started moving on them 50-140's

miyata · « **Reply #5 on:** May 03, 2010, 05:01:12 PM »

Quote from: AtlLaw on May 03, 2010, 04:56:07 PM

$:-\$

Yah!? well... you ain't so cool!

LongTom, time we started moving on them 50-140's

You mean those little cartridges that are only 3.25" long.

LOL.

thejanitor · « **Reply #6 on:** May 03, 2010, 05:06:14 PM »

OUCH. Never figured a Handi could hold something that big. I like Handis but that would really make me think before I squeezed the trigger. "am I crazy"?

Have fun, post some big critter pics after you put 'em down.
thejanitor

necchi · « **Reply #7 on:** May 03, 2010, 05:34:48 PM »

janitor,,
Ya mean yer supposed to squeeze the trigger on something like that!

Just show'm the cartridge,,should be enough ta scare'm to death!

Oscar2287 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 03, 2010, 07:21:49 PM »

Glad to see it all got worked out. Can't wait to hear how it shoots - glad that's not my shoulder behind it though.

bikerbeans · « **Reply #9 on:** May 04, 2010, 01:34:37 AM »

Richard,

50-140 would be nice but I think to one up the Hubel 499 you need to go to the 50 BMG.

I am sure Tim would test fire it for you.

BB

nomosendero · « **Reply #10 on:** May 04, 2010, 04:53:29 AM »

Quote from: AtlLaw on May 03, 2010, 04:56:07 PM

$:-\$

Yah!? well... you ain't so cool!

LongTom, time we started moving on them 50-140's

Not too worried about an opinion from someone who does not know me. Nothing personal I am sure.

Anyway,it will be an interesting read, looking forward to it.

Throckmorton · « **Reply #11 on:** May 04, 2010, 06:20:21 AM »

No way in Hades would I want to be on EITHER end of that thing when it goes off !!!!

Please,oh please take video of range time with it,I'd love to see it in action !

quickdtoo · « **Reply #12 on:** May 04, 2010, 06:40:18 AM »

Perfect for a Leadsled!!

Tim

v8r · « **Reply #13 on:** May 04, 2010, 01:52:42 PM »

:oI guess the frame can handle the pressure? ;DI have to admit it is pretty cool as long as it's safe.

Flashole · « **Reply #14 on:** May 04, 2010, 03:31:38 PM »

So is it possible to take our punie little 45-70s and step up to a 450 NE #1 or 2

miyata · « **Reply #15 on:** May 04, 2010, 06:20:19 PM »

Yeah, the pressure is way low, because of the big case. The whole point of the .450 Nitro Express Number 2, was to create an equivalent to the .450 Nitro Express, but with lower pressure, and they achieved that by just making the case bigger.

I considered making a .450NE but ended up going for the .45-120... it is pretty well identical ballistically. The only problem with going from a .45-70 to a .450 NE, is that the thinner rim on the .450NE means the reamed chamber isn't quite totally cleaned up around the rim... but I think Tim pointed out that it doesn't matter. Reaming to .45-120 means no mods to the extractor, etc etc... it is just soooo easy to do.

If you want a very low pressure .45 then go for the .450 NE #2. But, if you're going to do that then seriously consider going to the .499 HE ..... Ed will ream it for you for a very reasonable price. The only downside is there aren't any dies, so you either go for custom.... very expensive... or do as I do and use both .500 S&W and .50-90 dies, with some easy modifications.... and that works out much cheaper than a set of .450 NE #2 dies too.

And you'll be doing something that is almost unique.

nomosendero · « **Reply #16 on:** May 04, 2010, 07:17:42 PM »

Yea, the 45-90 or 45-120 is a good matchup for this rifle, I have thought of doing the 45-90 myself & then also shoot 45/70 when desired, pretty neat & practical.

You are right about the bigger case & VERY low pressures, with your experience &use confined to you it could be done, but some would take it a wee higher & find a new & fast way to make grits.

NFG · « **Reply #17 on:** May 05, 2010, 08:23:57 AM »

I've been looking for someone who did just what you did....as soon as I finish my 510 Makatak, I will start on a 499 HE/50-140 or .585 project of some kind while getting my lead sled all tuned up.

I mentioned doing something with a .532 size case way back and got a hornets nest all stirred up...been follolwing Ed's 499 HE since he proposed it some time back, but I was doing a 12GaFH at the time and and wanted a longer barrel for it anyway.

I was/am going to use a 10GA USH barrel as a stub barrel and stick on a 30-34" barrel...maybe...if I can scape up the $350 for a barrel...or I might just do a 50-140 instead, it's only about 20 gr H2O smaller...I'm still trying to work through all the parameters, but it boils down to which is cheaper.

lol.

Keep us posted...I would REALLY like some actual chrono data if that is possible.

Great tool for wild T-wallabys...

Luck

Ozzy Jack · « **Reply #18 on:** May 05, 2010, 12:03:48 PM »

Just what you need for those Tassy tigers

miyata · « **Reply #19 on:** May 05, 2010, 12:24:05 PM »

The problem with the .50-140 is that it is a .510, not a .500 like the .500 s&w. But if you're not starting with a .500s&w barrel it doesn't matter.

I will be chronie'ing the results. Possibly as soon as the end of next week, subject to some reloading components arriving. Like slow powder and .500 projectiles.

STUMPJMPR · « **Reply #20 on:** May 05, 2010, 12:52:31 PM »

So whats on the menu for the 499HE? Certainly not bunny rabits.

NFG · « **Reply #21 on:** May 05, 2010, 01:04:00 PM »

That's true about the size size difference. The easy way around that is to have CH4D make the sizer die to take care of the 0.010" difference and have PT&G cut a reamer the same way, you could still use 50-140 cases. You would have a .49-140 so to speak. Sort of a make-do for use with the NEF 500 S&W barrel. Ed got there first while I was dreaming about it, but he is a professional.

I almost went that route...considering the cost of 450 NE #2 brass at 8 bucks apiece and 50-140 "only" 3 bucks each...the dies and reamer cost is a wash.

Being on a fixed income causes all kinds of hoo-haa with my toy making. Beer and pizza income...champagne and caviar appetite.

Wanting a 30 plus inch barrel also put a kink in the works.

The NEF is a very good platform for doing all kinds of fun things on the cheap...

Going with the 20ga and the 3.5" brass is another way to get into the really LARGE, heavy bullets..Ed has done some good things there also. I'm watiting for email cost info from Ed for his 585 and 700 HE dies and chasing barrel makers.

Luck

john-78 · « **Reply #22 on:** May 05, 2010, 04:46:55 PM »

Tim, a lead sled? I was thinking more like a bradley fighting vehicle.

lrrice · « **Reply #23 on:** May 05, 2010, 07:31:58 PM »

That thing should kill on one end and maim on the other.

miyata · « **Reply #24 on:** May 08, 2010, 04:31:16 PM »

Step one in resizing from .450 NE #2 to .499 HE.......

You need an expander die to get rid of the shoulder. Ed made one for me, from the expander die in a .50-90 die set.....

It worked ok in my little Lee Challenger press as long as I unscrewed the shim a little....

The end result...

mechanic · « **Reply #25 on:** May 08, 2010, 04:36:48 PM »

I don't know how many of those I would want to shoot, but they sure would look cool in a bandolier!

My Dad would have been all over this if he were still alive. He loved to "hotrod" and come up with new loads and calibers. His favorite gun at the time was a Contender for which he had a boat load of barrels in calibers the average guy never heard of...

An interesting process, keep posting for us!

Ben

gcrank1 · « **Reply #26 on:** May 08, 2010, 06:15:59 PM »

FWIW, since we're talking about wildcattin' and die modifications,
The LEE Universal Expander Die uses two easily removable/interchangable taper plugs for different calibers.
By using the die body & cap, if you have a lathe, you can easily make a wide variety of 'plugs' to do as above or neck size, etc. It is so cheap and useful there is little reason not to have one if you mess about with lead bullets or oddball calibers.

tykempster · « **Reply #27 on:** May 10, 2010, 04:41:09 PM »

Now this is too cool! I'm anxious to see some results!

sachel.45 · « **Reply #28 on:** May 10, 2010, 06:23:31 PM »

i saw read some guy took an H&R 10 gauge and had it reamed to an 8 gauge now if i can figure out if i can get an 8 gauge rifled might be kind of fun

miyata · « **Reply #29 on:** May 21, 2010, 01:21:41 AM »

Just an update.....

I have now successfully resized the brass using the modified .50-90 FL resizing die... by cutting the top off.

I have on order some Woodleigh projectiles and AR2217 and AR2225 powders. Both are due to arrive next week.

There's not much more I can do now until they arrive.