Author Topic: harley to leave milwaukee? (Read 6282 times)

myronman3 · « **on:** May 04, 2010, 09:33:42 AM »

the latest rumer is harley is thinking about leaving wisconsin. first the screwover of buell, and now this. the scumbag executives at harley never seem to sink low enough.
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/05/03/rumormill-harley-davidson-considering-move-away-from-milwaukee/?icid=main|main|dl4|link5|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autoblog.com%2F2010%2F05%2F03%2Frumormill-harley-davidson-considering-move-away-from-milwaukee%2F

pastorp · « **Reply #1 on:** May 08, 2010, 04:50:48 AM »

Makes sence to me. Labor unions, while needed in our early history, have become very unreasonable. They are never satified and a big part of the auto industrys problems. JMO

regards,

Cheesehead · « **Reply #2 on:** May 08, 2010, 05:47:22 AM »

If this happens, I will wash my hands of HD FOREVER!

Cheese

mauser98us · « **Reply #3 on:** May 08, 2010, 09:21:04 AM »

Well Wisconsin has lost a lot of their beer manufacturers havn't they? I think PBR is now brewed in Texas.

BBF · « **Reply #4 on:** May 08, 2010, 11:08:38 AM »

There are other States that would love to have them. At less cost I would think.

buck460XVR · « **Reply #5 on:** May 08, 2010, 01:58:39 PM »

Quote from: mauser98us on May 08, 2010, 09:21:04 AM

Well Wisconsin has lost a lot of their beer manufacturers havn't they? I think PBR is now brewed in Texas.

......and they can have it. Probably only poor illegal aliens drinkin' that horse piss.

Quote from: BBF on May 08, 2010, 11:08:38 AM

There are other States that would love to have them. At less cost I would think.

I dunno.......Milwaukee and Tomahawk have been pretty Harley "friendly" to the MOCO. Union labor scale would probably be the same wherever they go. Building new plants and infrastructure somewhere else in the U.S. would be expensive also. As long as there is "family" still involved with making the major decisions, with all the recent upgrades at both facilities and the new Harley Museum located in Milwaukee, I have a hard time believing they would move somewhere else states side. Maybe outsource to a third world country where they could force 9 year old girls to sew seats with their teeth for $.50 a day..................

This is where I think it's coming from......

Quote

Of course, it seems more likely that Harley-Davidson is using these rumors as a tactic to get the upper-hand on the upcoming union negotiations.

10 years ago when Harley couldn't make bikes fast enough and health care was cheaper, Harley made a lot of concessions to the labor force. I have a friend that works in R&D for Harley in Milwaukee. His wife was a Registered Nurse and resigned to work in the factory assembling Sportster engines. Reason? Money was better and full retirement after 20 years with lifetime health care. Between today's economy with it's sagging bike sales and spiraling health care costs, this is costin' them lots of money. I could almost see them closing the Tomahawk plant. It is a small facility that could easily be moved to a small corner of one of their other plants. Much of what they used to do there is now contracted out to small shops around the state. It would be devastating to the small town of Tomahawk tho, as much of their local economy is derived from Harley. Probably mean a slow and painful death the the annual Open House/MDA Fall Ride rally there also.

Spanky · « **Reply #6 on:** May 08, 2010, 05:39:38 PM »

Quote from: pastorp on May 08, 2010, 04:50:48 AM

Makes sence to me. Labor unions, while needed in our early history, have become very unreasonable. They are never satified and a big part of the auto industrys problems. JMO

regards,

They aren't just part of the problem... they have crippled the industry and a huge part of the American economy.

Spanky

Dances with Geoducks · « **Reply #7 on:** May 08, 2010, 08:10:13 PM »

My HD left the garage this morning

BBF · « **Reply #8 on:** May 09, 2010, 03:56:07 AM »

I believe there were car makers that moved south or at least some of their stuff, and then they went further south

rdmallory · « **Reply #9 on:** May 09, 2010, 04:01:55 AM »

Yep, Got one car maker 2 miles from me Toyota. It is a union shop though.

Doug

myronman3 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 09, 2010, 02:00:15 PM »

yup, it is all the evil union's fault. the executives at harley have NOTHING to do with the savaging of the company at all. just ask erik buell and the stockholders how hard the unions screwed things up....
did you know the ceo of harley didnt even have his license when he started?

Spanky · « **Reply #11 on:** May 09, 2010, 08:01:36 PM »

It's not all the union's fault but they don't help matters either.

Spanky

myronman3 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 10, 2010, 05:13:14 AM »

says you.

i have been to the tomahawk plant and i will tell you that i was very impressed with the way the factory was being run. everyone there was on it and production was impressive. the place was spotless and there was no wasted movement.
and, the only thing erik buell has to say about his former employees is that they were the best in the world. not one word about how the unions screwed up his operation.
how about you save your general political b.s. generalizations and canned rhetoric for someone who has less firsthand knowlege of the subject? the s.o.b.'s calling the shots at harley dont give a rat's tail about the heritage of the company, or what kind of effect it will have on the future of the company. all they care about is their own pay, and will stop at nothing to increase how much they can take for themselves. this has nothing to do with the unions, it is just b.s. propaganda to justify whatever crap they have planned.
the whole thing will be sold to china before it is all said and done; and some people will still be trying to blame the union for it.

gypsyman · « **Reply #13 on:** May 11, 2010, 05:31:26 PM »

Well, I guess anythin is possible. Don't think the unions are to blame, and, I'm not, nor ever have been a union person. Just think the economy is bitting everyone in the butt. I don't think that changing locations will help much at this point in time either. Lets face it, motorcycle's are a luxury item. Boats have died out long ago. Everybody is cutting back, and ''extra's'', are the first to go. Plus the fact, they had geared up years ago for the extra sales, and, they just arn't there. I'll bet if they went back to what they produced, say 20 years ago, it would still be a rough road, but they might just make it. Hard to say. But, if they did sell out and move out of country, might as well kiss their butt goodbye. The main reason anybody buys a Harley, is that their American made.(at least most of the bike is) gypsyman

Oldshooter · « **Reply #14 on:** May 11, 2010, 05:56:57 PM »

It's a Charley Foxtrot. Back in the late eighties and early nineties you had to get a on a waiting list to buy a HD. They purposely made fewer than they could to get the price up! once they did they were everywhere but at premium prices. I had a 89 fatboy, 93 Dresser, a 95 fatboy and a fuel injected anniversary dresser. I ordered them all except the first fatboy and waited for them to come in then sold them at a fair profit. HD built that nightmare and now they are gonna do something else to make more money. The "h.o.g. owners" were not considered then nor now!

Doug B. · « **Reply #15 on:** May 12, 2010, 01:16:47 AM »

Sad story. Here I am a Wisconsinite. Born and raised here. I have been running motorcycles since 1971. They all have been Hondas, and I might add VERY good, reliable bikes. I don't want anybody to get me wrong here...I love Harley's and would love to own one. Here is why I haven't. Back when I was first introduced to bikes, I was a kid. Rode the "bike" you see in my avatar, that bike. I am fortunate to own it. I couldn't afford a Harley. As I grew older, I took to dirt bikes, 2 Honda SL350's. Liked 'em...still couldn't afford nor did I particularly care for the HD's made by AMF. Everybody agreed.....the quality suffered, they rattled, leaked oil, started hard, ran rough and just were not real trustworthy. Even though, deep down in I was a dirt-biker, I still wanted one, but, at the time the Honda's were more affordable. I sold my last 1971 SL350 in about 1985 and went bike-less up until this spring. I looked at the Harley's, wanted a Harley, and after realizing that a new bike was not in my future, priced used Harley's and found that the Harley was still not in my future, again, monetary reasons. So....I now ride my.............Honda, you guessed it, with my buddies on their Harley's. I still would really like a HD but I can ride a quality bike for one fourth the cost of a bike made right here in Wisconsin. My wife (from Tomahawk) and I, hopefully, some day will feel like we can afford a Harley. For myself, Harley needs to become more competitive. There is no longer a quality concern. They now build one of the best motorcycles in the world. Meanwhile......my 1986 Honda VF700C Magna is working great!

myronman3 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 12, 2010, 03:18:23 AM »

nothing wrong with that at all doug. i bet you ride that honda more than alot of harley owners ride their bikes.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #17 on:** May 12, 2010, 03:36:48 AM »

Briggs and Stratton moved from Milwaukee to Auburn, Alabama. Non-union and uses a lot of part time student labor. Also, taxes in Alabama are non-existant for new industries, I think for 5 years. Also, Alabama pays for their labor training to encourage industry to move here. Alabama now has a Mercedes, Honda, Hundai, plus numerous parts suppliers. Also Goodyear, Goodrich, and Michelin tire plants. We however, have lost almost all of our textile manufacturers to overseas, like Lee jeans, Vanity Fair, Playtex, West Point Stevens, Leishner. We have also lost steel mills in Birmingham. Most steel in America today is not made from iron ore, limestone, and coal, but scrap metal, mostly from old cars.

rdmallory · « **Reply #18 on:** May 12, 2010, 03:58:16 PM »

Quote

Briggs and Stratton moved from Milwaukee to Auburn, Alabama.

Sure hope they aren't hard to put together.

I heard that the Harley workers made a concession and they are staying put for now.

Doug

Spanky · « **Reply #19 on:** May 12, 2010, 04:07:57 PM »

Quote from: myronman3 on May 10, 2010, 05:13:14 AM

the s.o.b.'s calling the shots at harley dont give a rat's tail about the heritage of the company, or what kind of effect it will have on the future of the company. all they care about is their own pay, and will stop at nothing to increase how much they can take for themselves.

This statement could be said for the exec's or the union workers.
You don't think union wages and benefit packages cut into the company's bottom line at all?
Now no need for sarcastic quips or rhetoric... just an honest answer to an honest question.

Spanky

myronman3 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 13, 2010, 03:16:49 AM »

Quote

You don't think union wages and benefit packages cut into the company's bottom line at all?

the same could be said for non union workers. or do their wages and benefits cost nothing? why is it that union employees always get the bad rap? i have worked in non union and union shops, and while there are turds in both punchbowls, honestly i will take the union shop anyday. non union enviroments, there is always brown-nosing and little suzy sleeping with so-and-so who gets preferential treatment. i am willing to bet 95% of people who are anti union have NEVER worked in a union shop, they are just like anti gunners who talk about stuff they have no first hand knowlege of; just regurgitating garbage they heard from somewhere else- a classic case of diarrhea of the mouth.

Buckskin · « **Reply #21 on:** May 13, 2010, 07:01:52 AM »

I suppose unions had nothing to do with Detroit dying either. Fact is, those union jobs are over compensated. You could get plenty of workers to do those same jobs with less people and less pay with same quality, probably better... If you don't see a pattern of companies with unions struggling, then your just closing your eyes and mind. Mercury has the same issues and threatened to leave to a non-union shop, and the idiotic union was willing to shut down the factory and loose all those jobs for the area... Although I'm glad they stayed for several reasons, they should have closed shop here if they want to make it in the long run. Every single person that I know who is out of work right now or was layed off for an extended period of time belongs to a union. coincidence?

By the way, you can't forget to blame Doyle for his hand in taxing every business out of State. Combined reporting cost that company an additional $25 million last year... That's alot of money that could go towards those cushy union contracts!

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #22 on:** May 14, 2010, 03:38:14 AM »

Detroit in 1960 had the highest standard of living for a city it's size in the US. Today it is last. Why? I think unions demanded too much with cradle to grave benefits, especially with people living longer. Same reason Social Security is hurting, people are living longer. Only three ways to fix this, later retirement, cut benefits, or move the factory to non-union area. A guy in Alabama making $8-12 an hour would gladly move to a $15/hr pay at an auto factory if the auto company was paying $20-25/hr in the north.

myronman3 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 14, 2010, 10:12:30 AM »

yup, he would be really happy until november rolled around.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #24 on:** May 14, 2010, 10:21:04 AM »

Just shows brand loyalty flows in one direction . Be it HD or Winchester , Remington or others they don't care about anything but sales and profit . They are run by bean counters these days . Unions are part of the problem but not all of it.Browning may be the best at it they don't make much of anything . They get stuff built by the lowesr bidder then hype the ads and people gobble it up.

Swampman · « **Reply #25 on:** May 14, 2010, 10:27:41 AM »

It doesn't matter where they are assembled to me as 1/2 the bike is made overseas. I really want a Triumph 900 Scrambler but my Nightster is probably my last bike. I just don't have the time to ride enough to justify the expense.

Why should a manuf. care about anything besides sales and profit? That's why they exist.

myronman3 · « **Reply #26 on:** May 14, 2010, 11:30:21 AM »

Quote

Why should a manuf. care about anything besides sales and profit? That's why they exist.

precisely the kind of thinking that has this country in the bind that it is currently in.

Swampman · « **Reply #27 on:** May 14, 2010, 12:08:38 PM »

If they don't make money, how can they stay in business. They have to make at least 20% profit or they will be sold off to another investment firm.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #28 on:** May 14, 2010, 12:24:23 PM »

Scary as it is I have to agree with Swampy. Harley should whatever it wants to. It is there buisiness. Try to tell Bill and Matt how to run GBO.

myronman3 · « **Reply #29 on:** May 14, 2010, 02:18:33 PM »

do you think the our grandfathers only cared about profit? how about taking pride in your work and putting out a quality product that you can make a profit on? this is how many companies established their name and brand. when the focus becomes profit only, damned be everything else, you are cutting your own throat.