Author Topic: SHTF  (Read 3543 times)

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Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: SHTF
« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2010, 12:32:42 PM »
Personally speaking, it was the day I roasted my own arse, 2nd degree, to 12% of body surface using old tractor gasoline to start a fire in a brush pile.  Good example of a Bad example and glad to still be here.
At a young age Dad showed me to take a old wine or scotch bottle maybe two depending on the size of the brush. Pile up the brush and fill the bottle with gas.  Sit it in the brush pile up right.  Go to the garage and get matches, a candle and the 22 Rifle.
Light the candle and stick it in the brush walk back 30 feet and shoot the bottle. 

Offline FourBee

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Re: SHTF
« Reply #31 on: May 05, 2010, 05:52:39 PM »
Personally speaking, it was the day I roasted my own arse, 2nd degree, to 12% of body surface using old tractor gasoline to start a fire in a brush pile.  Good example of a Bad example and glad to still be here.

Thank God you're still with us.   Gasoline and Brush Piles are extremely dangerous.   Growing up clearing new land and burning brush showed me just how easily one can get blown up.... :o
Enjoy your rights to keep and bear arms.

Offline Hodr

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Re: SHTF
« Reply #32 on: May 05, 2010, 08:44:12 PM »
SHTF is when something big enough happens to interupt medical care.  Despair is something that happens when I can no longer get medication for my wife.  At that point I will probably not care about what occurs elsewhere.

blindhari
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: SHTF
« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2010, 02:28:40 AM »
 ;)
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline teamnelson

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Re: SHTF
« Reply #34 on: May 06, 2010, 10:47:31 PM »
well, if I were a middle aged white working male with kids who lost his job, his house, most of his retirement, with no prospects for the future and no bailouts coming, shtf might look pretty good actually.
held fast

Offline MGMorden

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Re: SHTF
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2010, 04:30:43 AM »
well, if I were a middle aged white working male with kids who lost his job, his house, most of his retirement, with no prospects for the future and no bailouts coming, shtf might look pretty good actually.

Indeed.  My dad and my brother - both construction workers - just got news yesterday that they were being laid off.  My brother (who is married with a young baby) I'm going to be sitting down with this weekend to help job hunt. I think/hope we can find something for him.

My dad I'm more worried about.  He's been doing construction for 35 years - he never graduated high school.  He really only knows construction work, which isn't exactly booming right now (hence why they got laid off).  I'm really just not sure what to do there other than hope that people start building stuff again.

I think I can shoulder either one of their house payments if need be, but none of the other bills, and certainly not both of them.  I'm still not seeing any recovery happening here.

Offline gypsyman

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Re: SHTF
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2010, 04:42:16 AM »
Personally, probably the closest SHTF event in my life, wasn't the hold ups or being shot at in the carry out business. Scariest thing ever happened to me, having a tire blow out at 70mph on a Sunday night, in a snow storm going home from a gun show. Luckily, it was a rear tire, and kept it under control, but that couple minute's, sure made an impression. Never try and push your luck on brake's of tires. gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline Dances with Geoducks

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Re: SHTF
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2010, 05:31:42 AM »

Offline Heather

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Re: SHTF
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2010, 08:04:22 AM »
well, if I were a middle aged white working male with kids who lost his job, his house, most of his retirement, with no prospects for the future and no bailouts coming, shtf might look pretty good actually.

Except for a nuclear war near me or a super volcano erupting, or a huge meteor hitting earth, I welcome a SHTF scenario.  If it is just an economic melt down with no food at the stores and no gas at the pumps that will be just fine by me!  A collapse of Government would really be good with me.  I know I know with no rulers there will be chaos, but in my little corner of the world I think we could manage just fine.  I think that if the population was decreased by this SHTF event and some of the luxuries of technology were lost then it would go a long way to restoring this once great nation.  When we as citizens have to work hard for what we have again then we might...just might, once again learn to appreciate what most so often take for granted.

Heather
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Offline Land_Owner

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Re: SHTF
« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2010, 10:03:00 AM »
When basic services deteriorate or cease, the human condition will revert to its pre-historic instincts.  Most will die.  Salt, fresh water, seeds, guns & ammo, knives, knowledge of land, fire - these will be comodities as will be gasoline/diesel, a working tractor, a horse, cows, goats, staples of life, shelter, SECURITY IN NUMBERS, etc.  Scenarios within the first few weeks will go from bad to worse back to bad again in time as the human condition decreases exponentially.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: SHTF
« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2010, 10:17:23 AM »
It will depend also on size of problem . If part of a state , a state , a reagion ,a country or what. If say North America is ground zero for what ever will there be enough American might left from our military out side the area to come back and protect us ? I would bet alot of red flag countries would love to get a foot hold here and convert us. That in itself would cause problems. Living off the land would be hard really as the aval. food would be gone in hours in most cases . There are 200000 people near where i live at 20 deer a sq mile well you see . Alot  of resources would be wasted at first i would guess . The ones who survive will be the ones who can adapt . The ones who will do what ever they have to . I have heard it said man gives up freedom to live with other humans under a system . When the system fails some will go wild while others work to restore it. This will lead to so interesting stand offs . It will be a time where things will be traded or sold for real value . Paper money would be toilet paper at that point . I would guess a different money would be printed if possible with a different value.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Avyctes

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Re: SHTF
« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2010, 10:33:36 AM »
I live in Southern WV and travel through East River Mountain Tunnel to Bland, VA where I work.  Bland is located in a valley between East River Mtn and Big Walker Mtn, both having tunnels on I77.  Bland is a micro climate of its own, and with either tunnel blocked, is a mousetrap from which the only escape is via windy (wine-dee) Rt52 over either mountain.

If the excrement hits the impeller while I'm in Bland I just hope the out-of-staters don't realize they can hit 52 and go on over either mountain.  If they do, I may be stuck in Bland County while my family would be on the other side.

What kind of situation would I consider an SHTF situation?  

That would be any situation that separates me from my loved ones that involved a potential threat to them.  My wife shoots and is familiar with most of the handguns I own.  Some of them are kept loaded and at the ready and she knows which ones and where they are.  While I don't consider her and my kids as safe with her alone to defend them, I know she would do whatever was necessary that she was capable of.

She, however, is not as familiar with my rifles, which I would consider more along the lines of true SHTF type firearms simply because of firepower, accuracy over distance, ammunition capacity, etc.  What I'm saying is I would rather face a small mob down with my AK or my AR than I would my 1911.

A SHTF situation might be one where I had a darn good reason to fear that a mindless mob might try to harm me or my family or property, or that individuals, driven by whatever was going on, would attempt to break in, steal, etc.  I'm referring to situations that would drive desperate individuals to commit crimes of this nature whom typically would never do such, so I'm not talking about the every day fear we all live with of someone robbing our home or attempted unlawful entry that happens all the time.  I'm referring to the type of fear that Vigo Mortensen shows in The Road, while attempting to keep his family under the radar from prowling bands of evil men.

A SHTF situation would be one in which for some reason or another the government was destroyed, the banking systems, stores closed, etc, and let's assume all our neighbors weren't prowling around looking to kill and loot, but bonded together to protect our community, while at the same time provide fresh killed game for the communal good.  Again, I'd choose a rifle, but this time instead of the AK, it might be my scoped Bushmaster, or it might be my M1 Garand.  Different situation, different need to be met, different firearm.

In all situations involving an SHTF rifle, I can't imagine being without a good sidearm tho'.  I'd probably be packing my CZ75 SP01.  Faultless engineering, Browning (modified) design, hi-cap (19+1), night sights.  Yeah, I think you need a long arm AND a hand gun for an SHTF situation, possibly the SP01 in a side holster, and my 1911 in my M7 shoulder rig.

"There exists a law, not written down anywhere, but in our hearts.. that, if our lives are endangered by plots or violence or armed robbers or enemies, any and every method of protecting ourselves is morally right."
Marcus Tullius Cicero

Offline Land_Owner

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Re: SHTF
« Reply #42 on: May 07, 2010, 10:33:51 AM »
toilet paper

Now that's a BIG TIME commodity

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: SHTF
« Reply #43 on: May 07, 2010, 10:46:16 AM »
plumbing joke
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline teddy12b

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Re: SHTF
« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2010, 12:09:41 PM »
I'm not in a huge city, but on the edge of a decent sized city about 200,000 - 250,000 people depends on the website.  Personally I could see in the largest of cities like LA, Chicago, NYC, etc having wide scale riots, looting, fires, and the usual bad stuff.  In my city I don't really see that ever happening on any unmanageable scale. 

I'm watching what's happening with Montana's state sovereignty gun laws, Texas as a whole, and what happens in November elections.  If Montana gets it's state rights shot down by the feds then I could see that being a spark for a SHTF situation.  I'd love to see Texas get a little tougher on state rights and I think they will create some friction.  The November elections this year probably won't be enough of a change to satisfy the masses so I think we could see some action after the elections.  Arizona is going to play a big part with their new immigration laws.  All these things collectively I could see causing a civil war.  I think most of the country is just sick of DC and as the states become more independent they will be cutting off support for the failing states.  Eventually I could see there being a war in this country and I'll be the first to admit I desperately hope I'm wrong.

Regardless of where you live people are people and will revert to primative behavior once their world has been shaken.  Look at Haiti earthquakes, and Katrina hurricanes, not in the natural disaster perspective but how people conducted themselves.  Once you rattle people's lifestyle there will be uncontrollable panic and uncertainty.  While I was overseas we were on convoys going through cities less than a month after the war started and I saw firsthand the panic and people on people violence.  Once the rule of war is gone, bad people will do whatever they think they can get away with and that includes settling old scores. 

I hope I’m wrong about what’s in the future, but I’m not going to take any chances with that.  It’s my due diligence as a man, husband, and father to have a reasonable amount of food, water, shelter, and supplies on hand with enough firepower that we won’t have to share anything if we don’t choose to. 

Sorry I wrote a novel, but that’s what I see happening when I hear SHTF.

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: SHTF
« Reply #45 on: May 07, 2010, 12:11:31 PM »
well, if I were a middle aged white working male with kids who lost his job, his house, most of his retirement, with no prospects for the future and no bailouts coming, shtf might look pretty good actually.

Except for a nuclear war near me or a super volcano erupting, or a huge meteor hitting earth, I welcome a SHTF scenario.  If it is just an economic melt down with no food at the stores and no gas at the pumps that will be just fine by me!  A collapse of Government would really be good with me.  I know I know with no rulers there will be chaos, but in my little corner of the world I think we could manage just fine.  I think that if the population was decreased by this SHTF event and some of the luxuries of technology were lost then it would go a long way to restoring this once great nation.  When we as citizens have to work hard for what we have again then we might...just might, once again learn to appreciate what most so often take for granted.

Heather
Only decrease would be the liberal morons sitting on the street corners waiting for the GOVERNMENT to do something.   :D  we may have a democratic Repubic back again.

Offline mechanic

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Re: SHTF
« Reply #46 on: May 07, 2010, 12:13:40 PM »
well, if I were a middle aged white working male with kids who lost his job, his house, most of his retirement, with no prospects for the future and no bailouts coming, shtf might look pretty good actually.

Except for a nuclear war near me or a super volcano erupting, or a huge meteor hitting earth, I welcome a SHTF scenario.  If it is just an economic melt down with no food at the stores and no gas at the pumps that will be just fine by me!  A collapse of Government would really be good with me.  I know I know with no rulers there will be chaos, but in my little corner of the world I think we could manage just fine.  I think that if the population was decreased by this SHTF event and some of the luxuries of technology were lost then it would go a long way to restoring this once great nation.  When we as citizens have to work hard for what we have again then we might...just might, once again learn to appreciate what most so often take for granted.

Heather
Only decrease would be the liberal morons sitting on the street corners waiting for the GOVERNMENT to do something.   :D  we may have a democratic Repubic back again.


Unless our many enemies use this as their occasion..... :'(
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Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: SHTF
« Reply #47 on: May 07, 2010, 01:23:30 PM »
Evacuation orders of MSP will equal SHTF for me, I'm thinking a lot of folks will be coming my way.  A major disruption of fuel supplies will mean the same as far as I'm concerned.  I drive for a living, and getting stuck out in the hinterlands would be tough on the family.
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Offline FWiedner

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Re: SHTF
« Reply #48 on: May 07, 2010, 04:08:13 PM »
Unless our many enemies use this as their occasion..... :'(

Domestic enemies of the People of the United States of America are as thick as fleas and have taken over the U.S. government already.  As to foreign enemies, we have a Kenyan president and tens of millions of unopposed foreign invaders from Mexico threatening our nation's economy and our very lives.

Our enemies are here and are working to destroy our nation and our way of life, UNOPPOSED.

But, have no fear.  The economy is going to tank again and the next round will make the last one look like a little league practice game.

You'll get the chance to see if your SHTF plans are any good.

 :P
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Offline bilmac

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Re: SHTF
« Reply #49 on: May 07, 2010, 05:13:20 PM »
Hyperinflation is inevitable. I expect that cities will become uninhabitable. Survivors from the cities will fan out from them like a swarm of locusts.

Offline Dee

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Re: SHTF
« Reply #50 on: May 07, 2010, 05:40:42 PM »
Unless our many enemies use this as their occasion..... :'(

Domestic enemies of the People of the United States of America are as thick as fleas and have taken over the U.S. government already.  As to foreign enemies, we have a Kenyan president and tens of millions of unopposed foreign invaders from Mexico threatening our nation's economy and our very lives.

Our enemies are here and are working to destroy our nation and our way of life, UNOPPOSED.

But, have no fear.  The economy is going to tank again and the next round will make the last one look like a little league practice game.

You'll get the chance to see if your SHTF plans are any good.

 :P

+1 FWiedner. Too little too late.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline FourBee

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Re: SHTF
« Reply #51 on: May 07, 2010, 06:20:54 PM »
 
Quote
Posted by: FWiedner    we have a Kenyan president and tens of millions of unopposed foreign invaders from Mexico threatening our nation's economy and our very lives.
Is this the guy who claims to be 'O's cousin?
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: SHTF
« Reply #52 on: May 09, 2010, 07:19:49 AM »
we live in interesting times !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline burntmuch

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Re: SHTF
« Reply #53 on: May 09, 2010, 07:30:28 AM »
Hard to guess whats coming down the pipe. All you can do is be ready for anything. :-\ :-\  Beans, bullets, bandaids, Ive been collecting for a while. With a wife & 3 kids under 10 y/o  Im not running far 
I dont care what gun Im using as long as Im hunting

Offline Land_Owner

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Re: SHTF
« Reply #54 on: May 09, 2010, 08:42:41 AM »
As to foreign enemies, we have...tens of millions of unopposed foreign invaders from Mexico...Our enemies are here and are working to destroy our nation and our way of life, UNOPPOSED.

And this says nothing of the five to ten MILLION (Arab, Iranian, Iraqi, etc.) Diaper Heads that are here, the other America-residing converts to Islam (blacks and white among others), most of whom have more training in weaponry and "hardship" than most real Americans will ever experience (not including you and me).

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: SHTF
« Reply #55 on: May 09, 2010, 09:21:29 AM »
if americans would rally in november we may start the trend back to what America should be . Will it be easy no . Is not better that Civil unrest , failure of our infastructure and murder in the streets yep. Can it be done maybe but the hand wringing has to stop as do the free rides . Will it hurt yep . BUT the support of govt by the people when they remove the free rides colse the unrestricted entry into America and the little roits that come from it will be better to survive than the failure some predict .
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: SHTF
« Reply #56 on: May 09, 2010, 09:48:03 AM »
Here we sit in Alaska with all our eggs in one basket.  Shipping, everything coming to all of our stores comes from Seattle or Portland by way of barges.  All those barges have to land in either Anchorage or Seward.  Since Safeway took over the grocery stores up here they only have three days supply on the shelves.  No back stock period.  Fred Meyer and Wal-Mart have gotten into the grocery business lately, but they are the same, with only three days supply on the shelves, with constant resupply coming in.  Anything that disrupts that supply will hurt us bad, especially Anchorage and Fairbanks, where most of the people have never seen a supply shortage.

Now the Pacific Rim Of Fire, a string of volcanoes, runs along Alaska's southern coast, and out into the Aleutians.  These volcanoes are constantly blowing with small eruptions.  Katmai was one of the biggest eruptions recorded, It covered Valdez with many feet of ash.  Anchorage did not exist then, so no one knows haw that area fared.

The San Andreas fault that runs through California, and brings those folks so much grief, also runs through Anchorage, Alaska.  Alaska experiences an average of 8 earth quakes a day, most are so small they can not be felt.  But every once in a while we get some really big shakers, like the 9.(something) we had a few years back when the wife panicked, while we were grocery shopping.  We could hardly stand while holding onto post.  Now earth quakes along the coast can create tsunamis, some folks call them tidal waves.  Some of you may remember back in 1964, the Good Friday earth quake, that hit Anchorage.  The quake did significant damage to Anchorage, Valdez, and Seward.  All the docks were wiped out in all three cities.  It was months before the docks could be rebuilt and shipping could resume.  Back then most Alaskans were more self sufficient than today.  They kept several months supply of food on hand, and needed less food from the grocery stores, growing their own gardens, and hunting and fishing to gather their own meat supplies.  Today Anchorage is a big city with most of it's residents from big cities down south.  They know nothing of supply shortages, and just can not fathom no groceries for months.  They have nothing set aside.

Now all we need is for one of those Volcanoes to really blow big, or a big Earth Quake.  Something that would create a big Tsunamis.  One that would wipe out shipping docks in Anchorage, Valdez, and Seward.  We know it's coming.  The question is not IF, but When.  And when it happens we are screwed.

People say, well there is always Air, we can have supplies shipped in by air.  If it happens during the winter, we could not bring in enough supplies to keep people warm and fed by air, just could not happen.  Too many people, and too much would be needed.  Food and water, alone would be almost impossible to supply.  Fuel oil, we have to have heat, and most city houses do not have anything but oil burning boilers to keep them warm.  There is just no way air supply could work.

That is when SHTF for us here in Alaska.  Oh this family will be OK, we can burn wood to heat the house.  And I don't need a chain saw to replenish it, I have two man cross cut saws and axes out in the shed.  We usually have a good supply of Moose and Caribou meat on hand, along with Halibut.  The wife buys canned goods by the case, she likes to have a three month supply in the pantry.  And if Social Issues get too hot here, we can easily move out to a remote cabin, I have three located way out of town, with no highways nearby.
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Offline mechanic

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Re: SHTF
« Reply #57 on: May 09, 2010, 11:19:44 AM »
You make valid points Sourdough.  What most don't realize in the lower 48 is that we are not too far removed from what you describe as well.  There are about 2 weeks worth of food supplies in the supply chain.  Most everything depends on truck.  65% of our food comes from other countries.  It would only take a week of no trucking and we would be in bad shape.  Two weeks or more and folks would begin to run out of food. 

We live a far more precarious exhistence than most of us like to think of.

Ben
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Offline MGMorden

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Re: SHTF
« Reply #58 on: May 09, 2010, 07:18:47 PM »
You make valid points Sourdough.  What most don't realize in the lower 48 is that we are not too far removed from what you describe as well.  There are about 2 weeks worth of food supplies in the supply chain.  Most everything depends on truck.  65% of our food comes from other countries.  It would only take a week of no trucking and we would be in bad shape.  Two weeks or more and folks would begin to run out of food. 

We live a far more precarious exhistence than most of us like to think of.

Ben

Very true.  A lot also count on some romantic notion of living off the land as well.  A few trips out hunting or fishing and you start thinking "Yeah, I'd be alright if things really went south.".  Reality though is that you're only really at an advantage there for tragedies affecting yourself.  IE, if for some reason I lose everything (job, house, etc), I think I could get by for a LONG time with a tent, a fishing pole, a rifle, ammo, and a good knife.

If the whole world goes to hell though, then it's a completely different scenario.  America's forests and waterways are sufficient to support RECREATIONAL level hunting and fishing through careful management, bag limits, etc, and an expectation that only some people will even bother with it.  In a SHTF scenario, the reality is that you'll see almost every edible game in any given area hunted out of existence within a few weeks.  Same with fishing. 

If you truly want to be prepared, stock up on non-perishable food items.  Mother nature won't be able to keep up with demand.

Offline Dee

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Re: SHTF
« Reply #59 on: May 09, 2010, 07:44:30 PM »
I have studied my ancestry (Cherokee) off and on most of my life. The so called "native American" was one of the most practical, and efficient people to inhabit ANY AREA of earth, and surprise-surprise. They occasionally had entire tribes STARVE TO DEATH. So I doubt very many weekend aboriginal is gonna make it as a full time hunter-gatherer, while at the same time fend off the "two legged wolves" whom are out there also trying to just get by.
The deer population in my home county has never recovered from the last "great depression", and with over 85,000 people living in this county now, there aren't enough deer for one per family.
As far as the situation with the trucking industry and the food supply. That synopsis is SPOT ON. This country has entered some time back in to the era of "JUST IN TIME FRIEGHT". I know, because I leased trucks to the companies. Today's WAREHOUSES are on 18 wheels. Stores order their stocks and they are delivered AS NEEDED, not in advance.
A typical WalMart Distribution Center, if the trucks stopped haulin IN, would be emptied OUT, in less than two weeks of EVERYTHING.

So for you guys that are excitedly awaiting, and hoping for the the S to H T Fan. Careful what you wish for. It will be nothing like you envision. There is a better than even chance, that you and your family will be in the multitude that starve to death.
I have long understood the motto: Never met a horse, that couldn't be rode, and never met a man, that couldn't be throwed. If some of you don't understand the meaning, I or someone else will be happy to explain. It's quite simple really.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett