new guy new cannons

[alinkrod]

Ok, lets see if I can get the pics up...LOL
First pic-This is the 2.25" bore or 2.5lb'er First one I have built in 15 yrs.
No.2 & 3: 1.75" Golf ball cannon
No.4 is a 7/8 bore table top
No.5 & 6 is a 3"/5lb I built for a friend that is a gun dealer... His EYES POPPED when I took it down to him...LOL
Wasn't sure where to post everything, so feel free to edit/delete/move Whisper...
Hope you like the toys...
Rod

[dan610324]

nice cannons
are they bored out of solids or how have you made them ??
is it cannons or howitzers ??

edited
SORRY FORGOT THE MOST IMPORTANT
WELCOME TO THE BOARD

here you will find tons of very interesting info and discussions

what you cant find here isnt invented yet 

[alinkrod]

All made with sch 160-180 seamless tubing, machined and welded butt plug.
All made as Cannons..... Just used Mountain How as design for the last 3" barrel.
Currently in the middle of a 2 5/8"-Pop can cannon and have the material for 3 more pop can barrels or 2 regular
length barrels, 1 long barrel and 1 shorter mortar barrel.
Thanks for the interest....
Rod

[Double D]

Do your cannon have howitzer chambers?  I can not find any schedule pipe that has thick enough walls to be used as a cannon.

[dan610324]

well if they aint sub chamered I would prefer to say that they are more like a one end open pipe bombs in my eyes

read the building instructions in the stickies here at the top first and think it over a few times before you build any more cannons

hard words ?? no not at all , just a friendly advice

are the breach plugs shrink fit or only welded ??

how long is the breach plug ??

You probably not got any problems yet with this construction , but you most likely will have in the future
remember that this is actually a pipe bomb when you lit the fuse in the future
do you want to harm or kill yourself ?? if so there are easier ways to do it

THERE IS ONE RULE OF THUMB YOU ALWAYS SHOULD FOLLOW WHEN BUILDING A CANNON

THE SAME WALL THICKNESS AS THE BORE SURROUNDING THE POWDER CHAMBER AREA

I must say that Im happy that you found this board now and not after there had been any accident
maybe they will hold together for a lot of shooting before they explode, but you will never know when that will happened , the barrel doesnt give you any warning before they burst .

if you have sold or given any cannons away with this construction I would track them and get them back asap
if something happened with one of those barrels you would likely be sued for all you got and probably much more for liability reasons .
even if its your best friend , when your cannon have killed his son I can tell you that he is not your friend any more .

think this over very very carefully and ACT asap

please dont even try to convince us that your barrels is safe , we have read more then enough news reports and even police investigation reports about such one end open pipe bombs to be convinced that they are safe to use . most of them had been used for years and some for decades before they burst , so think this over very very carefully .

you seem to be an very active producer of this pipe bombs , the more you make of them the sooner one of them will burst and kill someone

the welding of the trunnions didnt look so good , so if the breach plug is only welded by the same "skilled" welder its an dissaster
the breach plug got approximately the same weight as the ball I would guess if you are using steel balls .
so if the weld cracks it will leave the breach with the same speed and weight as the cannon ball , do you want to stand behind the breach when that happened ??

this is critisism ok , but its positive critisism .
none of us here at the board want to read about you or some in your family as a number in the statistics

PLEASE TAKE THIS WORDS VERY VERY SERIOUSLY

[Zulu]

Dan,
You have given very good advice.  I hope you haven't scared him off.  He really has a chance to receive some education here.  I know I have.

Alinkrod,
Welcome to the forum.  There is a wealth of good information here.  If you enjoy building cannons this forum can only make you a better cannon maker.
Zulu

[dan610324]

I sure hope I didnt scare him , but this is just the cannons we dont want to see .
so I hope he at least listened to my advice if I did scare him
this is the same proportions approximately that killed the small boy a year or two back .

the most dangerous with this guy is that he probably been seen as an authority and expert among his friends and neighbours on cannon making .
so I really hope that he still is with us and read all info here
those barrels could hold together for 2 more shots or maybe for another 10 years of heavy shooting , thats the most dangerous as people "know" that its "safe" barrels they use .
thats probably what happened with the pipe bomb that killed the young boy and seriously hurt his mother ( at least I think it was his mother)  both was on a very long distance from the bomb when it exploded .
I remember that some people here thought it was an drill rod or something like that from the oil industry that it was fabricated from .
doesnt really matter what the bombs are made from , the most important is that the people who make them will understand that it isnt safe


I can only hope that he took it as the friendly advice that it was ment to be , he will do both himself and the users of his products a hughe fawor if he takes my advices seriously
yes I know that I was a bit hard on him , but this is so very dangerous that I couldnt do anything else than tell him that what he was doing was going to give him hughe problems , if not today so in the future

Im not a welder but I sure can tell a good weld from a bad when I see them , also in good welds there can be slag and other porosities .
but when they look like the one holding one of the trunnions it aint good .
so if the chamber only is welded the same way its very probably that the bomb will deliver 2 projectiles some day . one in each direction .

even if fired only with blanks a barrel can burst , I know we have at least one person here with us who have vitnessed an involuntary barrel explosion from close distance

its very difficult to know what to tell a guy like this , I dont want to scare him away from the board , but at the same time its so extremely dangerous what he is doing so I must get him to really understad how dangerous it is

[Zulu]

We will see how receptive he is to very good advice.  He will either post again and show his willingness to learn or he won't.  If he comes back I'm sure he will find a very willing group to teach him as the same group has taught me.
Zulu

[dan610324]

whats bothered me most was the 3" that seem to have somewhere between 5/8 and 3/4" in wall thickness
and that one he passed on to a gun dealer
who will kill himself and his family with that pipe bomb ??

[dominick]

Im not a welder but I sure can tell a good weld from a bad when I see them , also in good welds there can be slag and other porosities .
but when they look like the one holding one of the trunnions it aint good .
so if the chamber only is welded the same way its very probably that the bomb will deliver 2 projectiles some day . one in each direction .

Dan,  A good weld does not have porosity.  If a weld has porosity it is not a good weld.  I agree that a good weld will usually look good.

[smokemjoe]

I retired from J.D. as welder and then as a weld inspector, And I had alot to learn about welding also.May I say that the welds around the pinions are not uniform, breaks in the welds, This makes no penetration.No leg size.If the metal wasnt oil free or gun wasnt clean you can have porosity.To weld the breech plug in, one pass around the plug and let it cool before anymore welding and put metal around the outside to draw the heat out.alinkrod not trying to hurt your feeling but trying to help. Machinceing looks great and at least your trying, DD got me  straighten out today on making my BB mortar or I would of made a bomb. I will do the machining but I am going to let a certified weld do my welding. Keep trying, you got good ideas, You have done alot of work to get this far, Joe

[RocklockI]

Rod you may still be able to put in a reduced powder chambered howitzer ?

It's too bad people find us after they made some cannons

[Cat Whisperer]

I can think of nothing more exciting than building and using one's own cannons and mortars.

Having seen from 10-15 feet away one explode, I can say also that one MUST know whether it's a cannon or a bomb when you light the fuse.  I've built both.  (The latter as a kid, and I guess I survived.)

[lance]

Then you have people like me..........who knows everything you all know, and yet i still push the envelope. One reason i never tell every detail i do when making a cannon or mortar, don't want someone trying to copy something that pushes envelopes to the extreme. But, i can say this........... I Stand Behind My Guns.

[barefiel76]

"you seem to be an very active producer of this pipe bombs " While you have good advice not what I would consider constructive criticism....

I do not claim to be an expert on this topic. That's why I look to you guys who have the experience. I just read through this posting twice and I am not crystal clear I understand why these are being consider so unsafe? I can't be the only new member with brain fog. I read through the safety and construction ideas and I saw one posting said "equal walls for bore measurement" the example was 1" bore needs 1" walls. There are examples on here where that does not apply. What is the difference?

Also, does the 1:1 ratio apply to the entire barrel or the powder chamber?

I understand the weld concerns, just not the barrel issues.  Thanks, Brandon

[Cat Whisperer]

Brandon -

A) WELCOME to the board.
B) Filter the tone of voice on the advice and read between the lines.
C) KNOW that we welcome you and want everyone to be safe.
D) Probably the most critical thing is that the steel surrounding the the powder chamber is at least equal to the the diameter of the the chamber. 
E) EVERYONE will want to say SOMETHING, but we're NOT ganging up on you - some of us have learned the HARD way and want others to learn it easier!

Yes, the rest of the barrel can be thinner.  If there is a powder chamber, the walls around it should be at least as thick as the diamter of the powder chamber.  The powder burns with a high spike in pressure at first and then it's much lower, so the rest of the thickness of the tube can be thinner.

[dan610324]

barefiel

Im no expert either, but I got some basic knowledge
and when you see someone making things that is so dangerous as this guy did I just feel that I must stop him

as english isnt my native language I have difficulties to make distinctions in a sensitive way as an native english speaking person can do .

but I still think all criticism that can save the life of you , a family member or a friend is a very constructive criticism .
and a friendly gesture .

if you cant see the danger with a 3" bore and a wall thickness of somewhere between 5/8 and 3/4 of an inch I would suggest that you read a little more here on the board , especially about exploding cannons
the safety in this hobby is much to important to be neglected .
if it is by neglectance or lack of knowledge doesnt matter , its still as dangerous

if you check up the proportions of original cannons you can see that they are conical or made in steps .
surrounding the chamber area you got the 1:1 ratio , just behind the muzzle its approximately 0,5:1
this was for bronze barrels , on cast iron you add 25 - 50 % on this ratios
the older cannon the higher percentage because of the lower quality of the cast iron

if you look at cw cannons they may not have this added percentage , but for me they are considered as semi modern cannons as they are from mid 1800 or slightly earlier and by then the foundries had reached a higher quality on their castings .

is the 1:1 ratio an over build ?? especially with todays steel .
maybe , but what do you prefer ??
a bomb that blows up your entire family or a safe cannon ??

hard words ?? yeah maybe , but true .

and I must confess that I didnt like when he called the bombs he had made "TOYS"
WOULD YOU CONSIDER CALLING A SMITH M29 A TOY ??
PROBABLY NOT , BUT COMPARED TO A 3" CANNON IT COULD ALMOST BE DONE

sorry about the caps lock




.

[barefiel76]

Thanks for the clarification. My point is it can get confusing when left to personal interpratation. I was make sure I had reached the same conclusion others reached faster than me.

Dan, I by no means was trying to be insulting. When I say I am not an expert it's true. I manage a bank. It just happens I am good with my hands and I like to make noise.  I have read through about the 35 pages of topics and comments. To learn as much as I can from people with more experience, "the experts." And I like to look at the pictures. Not everyone has that much time.

The re-occuring theme I noticed from reading through a ton of pages is this. People get excited to put their work out. It gets picked apart because we know it's dangerous. I agree the side walls on the 3" barrell are thin. But how do you all suggest he fix it so that he can learn from his mistakes and do it correctly going forward? I think we started to reach that point.

[dan610324]

first of all before he starts to rebuil them it would be good to know how the breach plug is designed .
if its a slip fit and only the weld holding it into place there isnt any idea to do anything with them untill the breach is strong enough , it aint fun to get the breach plug through your chest .
if the breach would be safe he could shrink fit an outer reinforcement on to the chamber area ,
parrot style
but it aint any idea to do that if the breach plug isnt of a safe design

I sure hope he will come back here and tell how the breach plug is designed
if he does there is a few different ways to make those bombs to safe cannons

either with an outer shrink fit reinforcement or by putting a sleve into the bore .
the outer reinforcement will also give them an more authentic look
and he will be able to keep the large bore diameter .

I know that my writing sounds a little brutal , but when I see such an build as this I get carried away .
cannons aint toys , they are dangerous and I hate to see more people become statistics because they dont really know what they are doing .
and as I said before , my english skills are just basic so I cant use a balanced language

Dom

you are so correct , my fault .
should have been "also in good looking welds"

but when the weld looks like a drunk hen have been kidding all around the trunnion I know thats not a high quality weld

 

[1Southpaw]

a drunk hen have been kidding all around the trunnion

Sounds balanced to me      

Takes good balance to do the deed right smak dab on the trunion .

I have had them drop a nice one down the back of my  neck .  I became a bit unbalanced over that deed and the chicken lost it's head .   

yum , chicken dinner the next day . 

[Cannoneer]

Ernie; you're cracking me up, and if I start laughing to hard, I'm going to suffer a case of insomnia tonight! 

[dan610324]

roasted chicken with a cream sauce and the roasted liver mashed into the sauce

 WOW  WOW    thats qualty food for a cannoner  

[lance]

a drunk hen have been kidding all around the trunnion

Sounds balanced to me      

Takes good balance to do the deed right smak dab on the trunion .

I have had them drop a nice one down the back of my  neck .  I became a bit unbalanced over that deed and the chicken lost it's head .   

yum , chicken dinner the next day . 

GOSH, i didn't think i'd ever see the day that someone slips a dirty word in on this forum..........

[Double D]

Don't worry Lance it wil be gone shortly.

[GGaskill]

Spelled it wrong so the Bowdlerizer didn't find it.   

[Double D]

All fixed for you now Lance!!!

I got tired of sending polite little reminders to people who don't want to be reminded this is a family board and would rather argue...so if it isn't on the banned word list it goes.   If one slips by, the banned word list will be adjusted....

[dominick]

My issue is more with the powder charge being used in these type cannons than the wall thickness.  A thinner wall cannon that is properly constructed would be safe with a powder charge that is compatible with the breech wall thickness.  The problem arises with people knowing the limits of the design and the natural tendacy of some to push the envelope and use heavier loads.   Someone with little knowledge of firing black powder could easily overload any cannon and there is no guarantee against failure even with a one caliber thick cannon.  All you have to do is watch some of the Youtube videos and see guys pouring powder down the barrel from the can without measuring it.  Athough the heavier barrels lessen the chance of failure, it, along with a proper charge would be considered a safer setup.  The problem with the Howitzer design is even if this guy were to change the plug to a Howitzer design and have a certified welder install it, this does not prevent someone down the road from pouring in a half a pound or more of 4F with a lead ball and blowing it apart.  

[dan610324]

yeah you are right , almost anything can be blown apart with bp

[lance]

  ..........

[RocklockI]

Thank god that emergency has been dealt with ! 

Holy smockaroo (if this is a banned word too ....my apologies)

What were you thinkin Ernie ?

another 'sky is falling' from the better side .

Was it the Korean War you fought in Ernie ? Sorry you had to be 'bought back in line ' buy such a one .

March on though ..... ! Just dont wander agian ....or you know who will complian agian ... complianing is all some of tem got southpaw . If it comes from the left ...roll right and vise versa .

squeeky wheels and grease ............ .....  I dont think we have enough grease .