Tell me how to Shrink a Mold

[Tommyt]

OK guys I'm making a 45 colt Mold but the cutter I will be using to cut the bands is .500
So If and when I do this I will have a Bullet Mold that has a .400 center and 4 bands at .500
Is there a way to shrink those bands
I know you say cut them smaller the tools that are .500 and 12 dollars to have one cut to .454 will cost
120.oo so I'm thinking of making the mold then maybe adding a tin strip inside the bands
On another Board they speak of a post from a Guy who uses aluminum tape or something like that
Can you guy help out some without the clowns telling me to go Buy 100 lee's
If or when this gets done,first one aluminum due too cost, the next will be brass
Nope I'm not using a Milling machine Drill press Router and dremmel
Just spending some time on a Project for fun but if it works I Will post the Process
for others to try
Here is a Rough drawing of what I plan on making the shaft will be just a Drilled Hole
through matched aluminum Blocks the bands get dremmel or router  Cut
But for now I'll just wait and see what you' all have to say


Thanks
Tommyt

[Tommyt]

 I'll make the first reply
do you think If I made these and ran
them through a sizer it would work
Or are they to big for that

Tommyt

[bremraf]

after reading your post i'd have to say get a smaller cutter is all i could think..... you could try and size them.... that would leave .046 deep of a lube groove if you size to .454 and if i read your drawing right.  I don't have my mic on hand to measure some bullets i cast out of a lee to see what depth the grooves are.  I seems like it might work... just be a little hard to size them.  I'd say give it a go if you got the time... worst you'll have to do is scrap it.  Me i'll just buy lees... lol.

[Tommyt]

Thanks but when I went looking for a cutter @.452 they told me they would take a .500 and to bring it down would be 120.00 so thats why I want to try something
Have you ever heard of putting aluminum tape in a mold
What comes to mind is the Metal Foil tape they use on Air conditioner Ducts

Tommyt

[bremraf]

Well, if you are referring to placing tape between the mold halves.... that might work.  In theory.  I'd place a layer of tape, then measure the o.d. to determine if you need more tape etc.  It could work.... try it. To make it the right i.d. for the bullet you'd need to add .046 worth of tape i'd think... so measure the outside of the mold blocks with no tape, then apply tape between till it reads original dimensions plus .046.  That sounds right to me.  But i've never done it personally so please don't be mad if it doesn't work!  BTW i'm a central fl boy(polk county)... i know you've met up with D crockett before... fine fellow.

[Graybeard]

Sent it here. I'll let the wife toss it in the washing machine and it will absolutely come out smaller, might be too small then but hey it's not a scientific process. 

[Czech_too]

Regarding the aluminum tape, my understanding is that you can use it if you have a mould that is undersized and want to slightly enlarge the overall cast diameter.  I 'suppose' that you could but the tape on the inside of the mould only where the bands would be.  That would bring the dia. down but it would be a tedious job doing it and how long it would stay in place while casting is another question.

I would try it as drawn first, size some and see if you encounter any difficulties, then go from there.

[Reed1911]

Lemme see if I can get this straight. You are using a what to do this?

not using a Milling machine Drill press Router and dremmel

If I read that right, you are using a drill press and dremmel tool. What kind of cutter? Unless you have a cutter that will be cutting the whole bullet in one shot, you can use regular machine cutters intended for a milling machine with no problem. And they dang sure don't cost more than a few bucks, 120.00 is a little out there.

[Tommyt]

Reed1911
 You got it !!!  Now if you would be so kind to find me an end mill or any other named Cutter that will cut .452
If I make one and it goes I'll send you a Brass one when I do them,just for the extra Help
Thank you very much

Tom

[Reed1911]

Well, I'm not really following how you will be making this mould, but if what you need is just to cut the center .4520", that is very easy. In standard size, 29/64 will be .4531, an endmill in that size will run 21.00 +/-  If you want or need it to be exact I'd opt for an adjustable chucking reamer, that would run about 10.00. That will do the center hole, tell me how you plan to do the full bore cuts?

[Tommyt]

If you look at the Picture
What I am going to do is take 2 aluminum blocks and put them together with
4 screws and nuts by drilling each corner,
Then while it’s together I will Center Drill a .400 whole x? Amount in Depth
I will then remove nuts bolts I should have what looks to be like a funny Bullet,
I will then chuck up a .500 cutter and with a Jig draws each Block to Center
I will do this a 2 different Depths and where the Last cut (bullet Bottom) I
Will bolt them back together and drill a .500 just a little ways in
If I do this all and it works on Aluminum I will do the same on Brass Blocks
Some where along the way I'll work on the aligning pins and handles
Because I type bad this is a Post I made else where

Tom

[Reed1911]

Tom,

I get the idea, I take it then you need what is called a "T" cutter in order to cut the bands, I was a little confused on how you planned to do that, but I got it now. The cheap way would be to just take a common chucking reamer and grind off what you do not need. Most chucking reamers come with about 2.5-3 inches of cutting surface, I'd just take a common bench grinder (or your dremmel if you lack the bench grinder) and grind off the cutting edge to .400 (or whatever size you end up making your center hole) where you do not need it to cut and leave the remaining area untouched where you do and go from there. I take it you are planning on making both a .500 and a .45 mould and just need the cutter for a .45 right?

[Reed1911]

And here:
http://www.shars.com/products/view/4467/2964quot_HSS_Straight_Shank_Chucking_Reamer

Cost is 7.50 for the reamer, 7" overall length, 1 3/4" cutting surface, 29/64 so this is the .4531, slightly larger than you wanted but pretty close, like I said you can get an adjustable blade reamer and do the same thing to get an exact size "T" cutter.

[Tommyt]

And here:
http://www.shars.com/products/view/4467/2964quot_HSS_Straight_Shank_Chucking_Reamer

Cost is 7.50 for the reamer, 7" overall length, 1 3/4" cutting surface, 29/64 so this is the .4531, slightly larger than you wanted but pretty close, like I said you can get an adjustable blade reamer and do the same thing to get an exact size "T" cutter.

REED
 You are very Helpful, I had talked to Many others who sell these Products, not the People in your Link and NO ONE got as far as you, I guess I Talk worse than I write,Or as I asked one Guy Are you a Tree Hugger because I said Make a Bullet you became Clueless LOL anyway , the Pictures Below is what I'm thinking your Telling me ,If so I want about .090 for Bands
Also think a Better Pic of the Bullet
I know I'm going through a lot for a mold I just want to Know I can
Tom

[Reed1911]

Well, I can explain a lot of the scratched heads you faced, you have to understand something right away. Well a few things really. First off, most machinists disconnect any mechinical interaction when you talk to them about something needing to be machined. They are almost all exceptionally mechanically inclined, in that they can build, disassemble, re-create, and design anything. It is just that you have to think about things in a different manner when you are going to cut a solid object into something. So the easy way is to keep the mind set apart and think either about how a part needs to be cut OR how a part interacts in a machine, its hard to do both at the same time without drawing it.

Over that hurdle, also keep in mind that most folks, even ones that shoot a lot, don't know how a bullet is made, and many do not understand the various functions of bullet design. So when you say to them a bullet mould they are lost. That and, while I'm sure most sales folks know the products they have and intended use, they also require you to know what you are asking about as well, or at least to ask the right questions to get the right answers. There is just too many cutters are various ways to use them for a sales guy to know it all.

On the cutter, yes, grind away the material you will not need, now you can go about it two ways, you can cut it all out and leave just one .090 x .452 or you can cut it in a  array, where you can cut all the groves in one shot. Just depends on how much grinding you want to do. Two things need to be mentioned here, #1 when you grind the reamer, be careful not to get it too hot or you will ruin the temper of the steel and it will not cut well for long, so grind a little and cool it in oil, grind, cool etc. If you get it red hot you've gone too far, the fins on a reamer will heat quickly (and become dull), so keep it as cool as you can. Also, you will need to square the front of it, when you get it it will have about a 45 degree chamfer on the nose, you'll want to gind that flat to a 90 for good clean driving bands, same thing on the backside after you grind the metal you do not want away.

[Steve P]

+1 on Reed's reply.

Get the available cutter and shape it to suit your needs. 

Steve

[docmagnum357]

There are several possibilities, concerning how to make abullet mold.  !st is to lathe turn them.  results are very good, very round, and you should be ble to get within 0003  That's three tn thousandths, of stated size
many custom makers do this, and it woks vwry well.  If you want to modify your cutters, most mass producers use a "cherry"  which is shaped like a bullet, 'cept backwards.
the lasto ne i can think of is to take bars of heavy aluminum and make modular blocks, that build a moldhjow widee are your grease grooves?  make a plate that hik.  by borin hole tbiggetr or littlere. you can find the righ t amount ot of lube.  Different nose shapes? long,Lighter,all can be made with the building block aprooach.  no body does it this way, cause it is easier to send off for about what you want.

[Pine Point]

Sent it here. I'll let the wife toss it in the washing machine and it will absolutely come out smaller, might be too small then but hey it's not a scientific process. 

My neighbor says that if his wife could get the Empire State Building in the clothes dryer,she could make a duplex out of it.

[Reed1911]

Well, how is it coming along?

[sbhg]

Wouldn't it be easier to take a HHS blank and grind/whittle until he has a single point tool w/ the cutting edge being the correct width of his bands?
And the correct dim. from the center for his correct diameter?
Or just go get a small flycutter and grind the cutting tool to the dim.'s needed.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/116/2508/=7h14w6
I think one of these would work if a guy ground it right, the correct offset for diameter and width of cut.
(in cobalt ofcourse)

[Reed1911]

Not since he is using a drill press. He does not have enough control on either axis nor enough speed to cut properly. On a lathe, yes, a boring tool would be easier.

[Tommyt]

Well, how is it coming along?

Well its not going I was fully prepared to get one done and thats when I asked you guys then I kinda let it
get put on the back burner
The entire Idea that got me into wanting to do this is
The cost of some molds just didn't sit well with me and then reading on other Boards of group buys
being Bought up at $120 Plus dollars just didn't taste good to me
so I had to see if I could do it or justify the cost of a custom
well you and others convinced me I was right at least with my thought of If you can make one
in the manner I want too
   I will do it myself, before I jump in the big buys
Also I know I'm no competition to the Real deal makers but I'd sell a couple to recoup my cost
or make a couple dollars

Tommyt