Reduced load question

[Yak Angler]

Just wondering if there is anything to be concerned with when using a smaller then recommended powder charge, for example instead of using 50 grains which is a starting load in the loading books using 25 grains of the same powder.

Has anyone ever tried this and if so what were the results other then slower velocity/less recoil ?

Thanks guys

[Dave in WV]

There are reasons to NOT go below listed minimum powder charges. One is called detonation and it blows up firearms. Another reason is loss of accuracy and too low chamber pressures. Low chamber pressure will cause the case to not properly seal the chamber by not expanding against the chamber wall. Really low pressures will dent the case and can ruin it.

[buck460XVR]

.....and then there are "squib" loads.

[Yak Angler]

Thanks for the reply's

you will have to educate me though, what are " squib " loads?

[HAMMERHEAD]

Squib loads are loads where the bullet doesn't exit the barrel. It can be from no powder, too little powder, or a powder that fails to ignite.

[lee1954]

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/small_charges.htm

[Dand]

Tell us what gun and cartridge  you are thinking of doing this?

Some powders are really dangerous if underloaded. There is a phenomenon call S.E.E. with slow powders I think - I'll have to go dig out my articles on that. You might do a search on this: Its something like Sudden Explosive .... can't remember but its basically detonation and possible destruction of the weapon, injury.

Some Winchester Olin (Now Hodgdon) ball powders for handgun rounds, like 296, the loading manuals warn in BIG letters DO NOT USE LOWER OR HIGHER AMOUNTS OF POWDER or something close to that. Heed the warnings.

Some powders in some cartridges CAN be reduced significantly like H4895 but don't arbitrarily reduce your load without a loading guide. I believe Hodgdon's website discusses reduced loads with H 4895.  There are posts on this forum about the formula for reducing H 4895 loads - do a search.

Speer manuals usually list a powder and loads suitable for low pressure lower velocity loads for many rifle cartridges.

The recent Handloader Magazine (or was it Rifle Mag??) had an article about using Trail Boss for reduced loads in a number of rifle cartridges.

You DON'T want a bullet stuck in the barrel. I've done that. Luckily it was a cast bullet and a gunsmith got it out for me. Also lucky I didn't try to shoot another load while the bullet was stuck in the barrel.  But I was out of commission for a whole weekend when I'd hoped to do a lot of shooting with that gun. I was about 16 at the time.

[243dave]

Squib loads are loads where the bullet doesn't exit the barrel. It can be from no powder, too little powder, or a powder that fails to ignite.

................Squib loads do exit the barrel at usually under or about the same velocity of a 22lr.  My squib loads for my 45colt rifle uses only 3grs of powder and 250gr cast bullets, I've used as little as 2 grs but I was afraid of a stuck bullet so decided on 3grs.  Squib loads in a center fire rifle cartridge generally use a fast burning powder meant for shotguns or pistols and cast bullets.  The cast bullets are slicker and will make it out the barrel fine when a jacketed bullet will get stuck.  The article Lee posted is a great one with load info, check it out.  Just keep in mind the loads in the article are all cast bullets.  I guess jacketed bullets could be used but I imagine it would take a bit more powder and if you get it stuck it would be a bugger to get out.  Dave   

[243dave]

Aaahhh I forgot, some people call squib loads, gallery loads, also lots of them use round balls too----lots of shooting really cheap!!   Dave

[Yak Angler]

My main goal is to get 30/30 performance or similar from my .270 to help to extend brass life, lower cost of reloading slightly and make longer range shots more of a challenge when coyote hunting. Currently with my .270 shooting any normal recommended load no compensation is necessary on a coyote out to 300 yards which i am starting to find a little bit boring.

Something in the low 2000fps range with 150 grain bullets. the only powder i curently have is IMR 4350 which thanks to a PM from PowPow looks like a very poor choice for a reduced load as a majority of the case would be empty which is what causes the problems you guys have mentioned. When i use imr 4350 i can still hear some room in the case with a max load when i shake the cartridge after loading it.

[PawPaw]

HOWEVER, there are some powders that work well with reduced loads.  Hodgdon 4895 comes to mind.

The Hodgdon website says this about that:  

For all cartridges we chose H4895 because it is the slowest burning propellant that ignites uniformly at reduced charges.  (snip)  To create loads of this type we recommend our 60% rule with H4895.By taking the maximum charges listed in our 27th edition reloading manual with any given cartridge and multiplying it by 60% the shooter can create a 1500 to 2100 f/s load, depending on the bullet weight shown.  This works only where H4895 is listed.  Do not use H4895 in a cartridge where it is not shown.

The 60% rule has long been known by cast bullet shooters, and in my experience IMR 4895 is also subject to the 60% rule.  I have several cast bullet loads that use reduced charges of 4895 (both Hodgdon and IMR).

Go to the Hodgdon website at the link I've posted above.  Hodgdon also lists reduced loads for TrailBoss powder.

[Yak Angler]

It looks like trail boss loads might work for what im trying to accomplish it would just be a bit on the slow side for hunting use or possibly the youth loads on the hodgdon site aswell. I like the idea of filling the case almost full and will try and find a powder that allows me to do that and stay on the low pressure end of the spectrum with 150 grain jacketed rounds.

[goodconcretecolor]

My favorite reduced loads for my 30-06 include a gallery or "squib" load of a single"O" buck shot lubed with Lee Alox and 3 grains of Bullseye. 1300fps and very accurate at 50 ft.( Don't reuse these cases for any other loads, only squibs)
110 grain M1 carbine bullet, 19 grains SR 4759-1900fps and hits point of aim at 100 yds when my hunting load is sighted in 3 inches high at that range-great practice load. 4350 is one powder NOT to go below listed charges with. The Speer,  Lyman and Lee manuals are the best sources of reduced load information. If you don't have any of those manuals, buy the Lyman and Lee and get a loadbook for 270 as that will have the Speer info in it.

[243dave]

Adam, have you used a starting load of imr4350 yet?  According to my old Speer no.11 manuel 150gr bullets on top of 48grs of imr 4350 will get you 2542fps from a 22" barrel.  That seems to be a good reduction and still safe with the components you already have.  SR4759 is the powder that the speer manuel uses in most of its reduced loads but for 150gr bullets in 270 its loads are only between 1655 thru 1957fps.  A powder that may give what you are looking for is H380, it has loads 2296 thru 2525fps. Like others have stated with slow burning powders stay within what the books says and you'll be fine.  Dave

[PowPow]

goodconcretecolor - I am using the exact same load in my '06; 110 m1 with 19 gr sr-4759.

Adam R - if you are looking to reduce cost, read the label on that can of Trail Box, what I thought was a pound was may only 10 oz.
this is is from Chuck Hawks, who credited it to Speer, and sounds like what you are looking for:
.270 Winchester - 150 grain Speer SP bullet, 26.0 grains of SR 4759 powder, CCI 200 primer, Winchester case. COL 3.270". MV 1957 fps in 22" barrel. (Based on the Speer Reloading Manual No. 13.)
http://www.chuckhawks.com/reduced_recoil_reloads.htm

[Yak Angler]

goodconcretecolor - I am using the exact same load in my '06; 110 m1 with 19 gr sr-4759.

Adam R - if you are looking to reduce cost, read the label on that can of Trail Box, what I thought was a pound was may only 10 oz.
this is is from Chuck Hawks, who credited it to Speer, and sounds like what you are looking for:
.270 Winchester - 150 grain Speer SP bullet, 26.0 grains of SR 4759 powder, CCI 200 primer, Winchester case. COL 3.270". MV 1957 fps in 22" barrel. (Based on the Speer Reloading Manual No. 13.)
http://www.chuckhawks.com/reduced_recoil_reloads.htm

That load should be just about right. I have all the components except the powder and bullets which are easily sourced locally for me. will try and find some this week and load up 40 or so to try out. I guess i could also use the 130grain bullets i already have i would just pick up a few fps which would be fine too.