Use of wooden mortars in Civil War

[williwm]

I have been reading "the Campaign of Mobile" by  Brevet Major-General C C Andrews and ran across an interesting statement. "the Sixteenth corps had made a number of wooden mortars, which were also quite effective. Each mortar was made of a log about a foot in diameter, sixteen inches in length, and the calibre for a four-inch shell."  Was it simply idle time projects? With it's strained resources, I could understand the confederates using improvised weapons, but not the Union Army. Any one have more references to this practice? Any thoughts? thanks, mw

[Zulu]

I would't fire one of mine!
That would be suicide.
Zulu

[williwm]

I certainly would not fire one either, nor am I asking for any information concerning the manufacture.  I simply find it interesting that the Union Army would make and use them. I tried several searches but have found no other mention of such a practice.

[Double D]

Actually Lance posted some information on these a few weeks ago, but he hold the details back to tantalize us.

[Cannoneer]

Williwm,

It was done out of necessity; The North did have shortages, but in this case rather than "strained resources", it might be more accurate to describe them as supply problems. The South also had occasion to make and use wooden mortars, and here the reason would literally be strained resources; the CSA didn't have anywhere near the same level of manufacturing capabilities that the North possessed.
When the Union Army used improvised wooden mortars in the siege of Vicksburg, it is reported that they served well. CSA General Edward P. Alexander reported that when the Confederate Army used makeshift wooden 12-pdr's at Petersburg, that the attempt was considered a failure.

[Double D]

The article Lance posted implied that the Fed mortars were 12 PDR's and the workes so well that the Fed's were looking at the feasibility of build 12 PDR's as standard inventory....if Lance has more he won't tell.

I wonder if a Federal wooden 12 PDR mortar is N-SSA legal?   

[Terry C.]

I remember a thread some time back with a photo of a wooden mortar on display in a museum. Pretty sure it was a reproduction as I seriously doubt any of the originals are still around.

Someone (it may have been Lance) built a firing micro wooden mortar. It's in one of the previous calender photo threads.

Zulu, the wooden mortars were not wooden replicas of the broze or iron mortars. They were big for their bore size, with very thick walls and bands for reinforcement.

I'm sure that over time the flame of the burning powder would enlarge the bore to the point that they would be unserviceable. But given the high cost and limited availability of bronze and iron, I'm sure that they were a viable option.

[JeffG]

I was always under the impression that they were to give the enemy the impression that the artillery strength was bigger than it was.  I forget the term of a fake wooden cannon.

[Zulu]

Quaker gun.
They did not shoot but did look fearsome from a distance.
Zulu

[Double D]

The wooden 12 PDR mortars actually fired and were not quakers.  The 12  PDR showed promise because the the mortar bombs burst on the surface of the ground and had a better  effective burst radius than the 24 PDR bombs. The 24 PDR's bombs tended to bury themselves in the ground and that reduce the effective burst radius.

[dominick]

Myth busters built a wooden cannon a few years back and if I remember correctly, it took a good charge to blow it apart.  When it came apart, it was in alot of pieces.  Anyone remember the show?  I could see were they would be effective with a reduced powder charge at close range and from a logistics stand point they would not have to haul the ordinance to the site.   Medieval armies built their siege weapons such as trebuchets and towers on site and in many cases this endeavor took several months or longer.  I suppose several mortars could have be built with a just a handful of woodworking tools.  There's a photo of the quaker gun in some of the Civil War books and they only carved the muzzle end.  you can actually see the tree bark on the breech.  Reminds me of the mock tanks of WWII.

[little seacoast]

Dom, I've seen old forged hand powered auger bits that were 4"+ across, with handles three feet or longer, takes two men to use one.  Seems you could bore the heart wood out of a short section of log and then band it with barrel hoops your friendly battery blacksmith altered to fit.  Not sure I want to fire one though.

[lance]

That is my wooden mortar on the calendar, Tim and i had a blast firing it. I can see a new project added to my list, now i just need to get a section of Gum log, don't think that tree grows in the woods behind the house. Anyway, i'll build a 12pdr wooden mortar and test it.

[Cannoneer]

Dom,
I did see that segment, and IIRC they did continue to fire it with increasingly heavier loads until it reached the point where the two hosts themselves were utterly amazed at the fact that it was still holding up to the battering it was taking; they then decided to load it to the gills, and blew it to smitherines.
I'm not sure of this, but I think this was also the same episode where the guy that always wears a beret, hand carved the stone projectile that was used for the first shot; and he did a fine job of carving it.  

[Terry C.]

Not only did they charge it with a massive overload (five pounds!), they also hammered an aluminum plug into the muzzle.

So, uh, yeah. It blowed up real good...

[intoodeep]

Here it is....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJgYtt99V5s

[Terry C.]

... I seriously doubt any of the originals are still around...

I stand corrected.

Looks like it's shrunk a bit, but otherwise in better condition than I would've expected.

[rdmallory]

Best I remember from the show the hard part was drilling the boar. Gum wood does not boar too well. Doesn't split too well either.

It did have 3 or four metal bands around the end to help hold it together

Doug

[dominick]

Dom, I've seen old forged hand powered auger bits that were 4"+ across, with handles three feet or longer, takes two men to use one.  Seems you could bore the heart wood out of a short section of log and then band it with barrel hoops your friendly battery blacksmith altered to fit.  Not sure I want to fire one though.

I imagine they could build several mortars on site from only one tree.  There would be fewer horses needed to move ordinance and equipment.  When they are finished with the mortars, just take an axe to them.  Maybe that was their idea, other than out of necessity.  I don't know how many horses were needed for mortars but I understand that a complete field cannon battery needed something like 200 of them. Is that correct?

[Cannoneer]

Intoodeep,
Thanks for posting the YT vid, there were a few things I didn't remember; one was when Mr. Beret finally did fire his beautiful chiseled round granite ball, he was actually heartbroken when it dawned on him that he'd never see his creation again  , and the other was when he tried to ram a full can of pop down the bore. It never fails, they have a subject that's actually interesting, and the've got to get silly; how in the world did he think he was going to ram a full aluminum can (with walls about the thickness of paper) down a tight bore? They've got to be doing stuff like that just for the sake of injecting a little comedy into the mix.

[Cannoneer]

Dom, I've seen old forged hand powered auger bits that were 4"+ across, with handles three feet or longer, takes two men to use one.  Seems you could bore the heart wood out of a short section of log and then band it with barrel hoops your friendly battery blacksmith altered to fit.  Not sure I want to fire one though.

I imagine they could build several mortars on site from only one tree.  There would be fewer horses needed to move ordinance and equipment.  When they are finished with the mortars, just take an axe to them.  Maybe that was their idea, other than out of necessity.  I don't know how many horses were needed for mortars but I understand that a complete field cannon battery needed something like 200 of them. Is that correct?

Dom,
For a full Union battery of six guns I've read figures for the number of horses, that range from around 100 to 125 (with spare horses). Six guns and limbers each pulled by six horses, and six caissons and limbers also each pulled by six horses; that's 72 right there, and added to that would be a battery wagon, the traveling forge, and an ambulance.

[lance]

Shoot, it's gonna be easier for me to get a Zinc 12PDR cannon ball, than for me to get a big ole section of Gum log, but, i'll get a wooden mortar built one day.

[little seacoast]

 Lance, I'll  see if I can find you a piece of gum log around here and bring it to Virginia in July.  Any particular reason it has to be gum?   Will sweetgum do or does it have to be redgum?

[dan610324]

I would guess that the one of the both that is most difficult to split is the best

[Max Caliber]

Black Gum, Sweetgum and Sycamore will all do. They have about the same properties. All have interlocking grain, All are strong, heavy and have small pores and dry slowly with lots of shrinkage. I believe that red gum is what the lumber industry calls the heart wood lumber of Sweetgum.

[williwm]

Thanks to all, especially ClassicCannons for the link. It's stated the wooden mortar was made in Minnesota, is gum native to Minnesota? I would have thought that the cannon would have been made of gum local to the Blakely-Spanish Fort, Alabama area.