Author Topic: 25-06  (Read 3503 times)

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Offline jimhammond

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25-06
« on: May 09, 2010, 02:36:01 PM »
I am looking at 25-06 rifles BUT I see some with 22 inch and some with 24 inch barrles. From what I have read about this caliber and the slow burning powder used to obtain the best results, it looks like the best would be a 24 or 26 inch barrel.    I have had great succes with the new Savages but thier 25-06's are all 22 inches except for the long range hunter????

Any help or suggestions on barrel lenght for a 25-06.

Thanks
Jim

Offline nomosendero

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Re: 25-06
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2010, 05:36:54 PM »
Yep!! Sure to start a fight but the 25-06 is more sensitive to barrel length than any nom-magnum factory
chambering I am aware of.

I have tested a bunch of these & have used them off & on since the mid 70's & those 35 years or so have taught me to go with 24" as a minimum & 26 is better. I currently load for 3 Sendero's (2 Sendero's converted to 25-06AI) & 1 Ruger Lam. Target, all with 26" tubes & all 4 giving the vel. I expect, in the std.
chambering to be in the range of 3,650-3,700 with the 75 V-Max, 3,550 with 85BT, 3,400 with 100BT, 3200-3250 with 115BT & 3100-3150 with 120's. I currently load for 1 Ruger with a 24", in the past I owned a Ruger 24" with the paddle stock & have used other 24" rifles, the stainless Ruger had a fast barrel that was close to these but did not match, with the others the spread was a little more. Still, a 24" performs well & if the diff. is 75fps on the low end or 125fps on the high end it is not a deal breaker.
However, unlike a 30-06 or even a 270, the 25-06 drops off a good deal in every case I am aware of when you drop down to a 22". I recently tested a Marlin that was an exceptional rifle for it's price, very accurate, but the velocity was just not acceptable. To me, a 25-06 with a 22" is not a 25-06 at all, at least when it comes to getting high end (but safe) velocities.
We have seen the 20fps loss per inch loss for barrel mentioned for years & yes it applies to alot of rounds, heck even some will lose less than that, but no way for this round!!
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Offline woodyed

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Re: 25-06
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2010, 06:44:30 PM »
You will be alright with a 22" barrel. Yes you will lose some velocity and it will probably be about 100 fps. The old rule was a loss of about 50 fps per inch. Many of the major rifle maker make their 270, 280, and 30-06 calibers in 22" barrels, so why not the 25-06. The report will also be a little more with a 22" barrel compared with a 24" barrel, but the gun will also be lighter. I have 25-06's in both 22 and 24" barrels and believe me when I say that the deer or woodchucks I've shot with these guns never knew the difference in barrel length.
I don't go for super- duper velocity in any of my guns, but I do like to obtain a respectable velocity which will do the intended purpose on the game I'm hunting. Out of my 22" barrel 25-06 I'm getting 3149 fps with a 117 gr. bullet and that is a very satisfactory figure to me. It sure beats any 257 Roberts that I'm aware of amongst friends that I know have the BoB's.

Offline nomosendero

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Re: 25-06
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2010, 07:18:04 PM »
To each his own, but I have made the direct comparison with too many 25-06's. As to why the 25-06 would be different, you have the same amt. of powder for a smaller hole, the same reason the 300RUM case worked out much better than a 7RUM, both with 26" tube, over & over.

I am glad yours does well for you, but I have never had a 22" meet my performance goals.
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Offline Dee

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Re: 25-06
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2010, 07:53:40 PM »
Since 1970, I have owned 8 rifles in 2506. The shortest barrel was a 24", and the longest a 26. If your shooting long range competition with it, get a 26" barrel to get the very most out of it. If your hunting with it, get what's comfortable. You ain't gonna see a nickels worth of difference in thefield, and as someone said. The deer, elk, pronghorns, praire dogs, predators? They'll never know the difference.
It's a great round, and I have shot several thousand rounds thru rifles, and almost all were reloads of my own making. My favorits were the 87 grainers, and the 100 grainers. My most accurate were the Speer 87 grain TNT hollow point, loaded to 3700fps, and the Nosler 100 grain partition loaded to 3500fps.
These two bullets done pretty much everything I needed doing.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline the jigger

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Re: 25-06
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2010, 05:30:18 AM »
First, I am a dyed-in-the-wool SAVAGE fan. However when I was looking for a sporter weight
25/06 I had to go a different route. I have a Savage 110fp in 25/06 with a 24" barrel that shoots very well.
I wanted to duplicate that performance in a sporter weight,Savage does not have one.
IMHO 24" is the minimum for optimum performance with a 25/06.
I went with the "plain-Jane" Weatherby Vanguard Synthetic. With 100gr Partitions it
will shoot cloverleafs at 100yds( if old hands and old eyes permit).With 110gr Accubonds
it shoots .75" at 100yds.
GOOD LUCK and GOOD SHOOTING!!!
IF YOU'RE GONNA GET OLD,YOU BETTER BE TOUGH!! GETTIN' OLD AIN'T FOR SISSIES!!!

Offline nomosendero

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Re: 25-06
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2010, 02:22:09 PM »
First, I am a dyed-in-the-wool SAVAGE fan. However when I was looking for a sporter weight
25/06 I had to go a different route. I have a Savage 110fp in 25/06 with a 24" barrel that shoots very well.
I wanted to duplicate that performance in a sporter weight,Savage does not have one.
IMHO 24" is the minimum for optimum performance with a 25/06.
I went with the "plain-Jane" Weatherby Vanguard Synthetic. With 100gr Partitions it
will shoot cloverleafs at 100yds( if old hands and old eyes permit).With 110gr Accubonds
it shoots .75" at 100yds.
GOOD LUCK and GOOD SHOOTING!!!

Yep to the 24" min.

Looks like you solved the problem with a good choice. If a guy wants to stay with Sav, at least he can get a wrench, gauges, a custom tube & solve the matter that way as well.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline the jigger

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Re: 25-06
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2010, 04:42:35 AM »
NOMO,
I've done the Savage/Stevens conversion for 250/3000, 257 Roberts, and 220 Swift.
When it came time for the sporter weight 25/06 I didn't have a donor action.
I was also curious about the $379 Vanguard/Howa. Pleasantly surprised.
GOOD LUCK and GOOD SHOOTING!!!
IF YOU'RE GONNA GET OLD,YOU BETTER BE TOUGH!! GETTIN' OLD AIN'T FOR SISSIES!!!

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: 25-06
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2010, 04:40:01 AM »
Longer barrels, up to a point, will always yield higher velocity - regardless of the cartridge.

The trade off is that shorter barrels are handier.  My .257 Roberts has a 22" barrel, as do my .30-06 rifles and I enjoy the way they handle compared to my rifles with 24" and longer barrels.

Get what feels good in your hands, don't worry abouot a few extra fps.
Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Offline nomosendero

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Re: 25-06
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2010, 04:11:23 PM »
My 26" handles fine. It's all relative to the pilot.
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Offline woodyed

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Re: 25-06
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2010, 04:55:34 PM »
Coyote Hunter,
You forgot to mention 22" rifles are usually lighter also.

There will always be shooters who strive to get the most shoulder thumping, barrel burning, velocity out of
their rifles that they can. Most shooters just want to get normal and decent velocities out of their guns not only for accuracy, but so they can enjoy and be comfortable when they shoot, whether it's target practice or hunting. Coyote Hunter said it right, use whatever rifle you feel comfortable with and will give you decent accuracy and velocities, and don't let barrel length be a priority issue. I seriously doubt if any animal shot would notice any difference in barrel length.

Offline nomosendero

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Re: 25-06
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2010, 04:40:11 AM »
Coyote Hunter,
You forgot to mention 22" rifles are usually lighter also.

There will always be shooters who strive to get the most shoulder thumping, barrel burning, velocity out of
their rifles that they can. Most shooters just want to get normal and decent velocities out of their guns not only for accuracy, but so they can enjoy and be comfortable when they shoot, whether it's target practice or hunting. Coyote Hunter said it right, use whatever rifle you feel comfortable with and will give you decent accuracy and velocities, and don't let barrel length be a priority issue. I seriously doubt if any animal shot would notice any difference in barrel length.

Length of barrel has nothing to do with "barrel burning". And a deer may not know if it was shot by a 250 Sav. or a 257 Wea., but we had better know what the vel. would be at any range we shoot animals, so it's up to us to know, for the sake of a quick kill. Weight of a rifle is another matter & depends on stock, barrel contour & many factors in addition to length.

There is nothing wrong with wanting "decent" or "normal" velocities out of their cartridge, whatever that means to folks. I talked to my friend about this Marlin I mentioned in my first post, it was most impressive for a low cost rifle, but with the 22" tube the velocity was not acceptable to me at all & again this was not my first Rodeo. But I talked to my friend about his actual need, HIS application, not mine. He wanted to shoot Coyotes with 300-350yds. as the limit. He would also use the rifle for TN. Whitetails out to 250 or so.
Well, the BT load I worked up for him does great for HIS needs & allmost exactly match the trajectory of his Ruger 338 he uses for Elk, which he can shoot quite well. So, for HISneeds everything was fine. On top of that, I could have loaded a little warmer & still safe, but it met his goals, so why.

However, the application that the Sendero's and the Target Ruger mentioned before is quite different. We can shoot a 115gr. a little faster than the 100gr. load presently used in the Marlin & we can nail Coyotes waaaay past the yardage that my buddie required & we have used them in WY. for a couple of Antelope
a bit beyond 400yds & the extra energy & wind bucking was quite nice. So, we have 2 different goals, my friend & I, but we are both quite happy with the results.

It allways helps to look at the original question asked.

The question asked was in regards to performance loss due to a 22" barrel as opposed to a 24-26" in a 25-06
specifically & the answer is yes you lose some per. in THIS cartridge. However, if your specific goals are met with a 22" or a 17" tube, then it works for you, plain & simple.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline woodyed

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Re: 25-06
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2010, 10:20:56 AM »
Mr. Nomosendero.
You are absolutely correct that there is no correlation between barrel burning and length of barrel. But there is a definite correlation between velocity and barrel burning. As I mentioned, some shooters strive to "hot-rod" the loads in their rifles to milk all the velocity out of their guns that they can. And this is where barrel length comes into play as these same shooters to get their goal of extreme velocity, usually if not always,  want 26" barrels to accomplish this. I think situations like this definitely would be in the catagory of barrel burning. If this is what makes these shooters happy,then so be it and I hope they are successful in their endeavor.
I'm also glad you could help your friend in developing a load for his Marlin. This is what I meant by "normal and decent" velocities for hunting or target practice.
As the old saying goes, "different strokes for different folks"
Have a great day.

Offline nomosendero

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Re: 25-06
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2010, 10:28:13 AM »
"Different strokes for different folks", that was exactly what I was talking about. BTW, I have had my Sendero now for 11 years, barrel is still great.

Good shooting
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline DannoBoone

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Re: 25-06
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2010, 04:46:48 PM »
Jim,

If you are interested in a heavier, varmint type rifle, Savage, NIB, I know where you can get
a .25-06 Model 112 BVSS, stainless fluted 26" barrel. (No, not from me.)

I have about the same thing, but with the VLP stock. They are heavy, nice accurate
rifles.
We need to change our politicians
like we do dirty diapers.............
for the same reason.

Offline kudzu

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Re: 25-06
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2010, 12:20:17 PM »
Go with the encore pro hunter light, handy, and a 28'' barrel. Mine is very accurate.
My prohunter with a 28'' barrel  has the same over all length as my bolt guns with 22'' barrels.

Offline GeorgiaDave

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Re: 25-06. What about a single shot H&R Ultra.
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2010, 08:10:10 AM »
Hello,

   Although I do not have an Ultra Rifle in 25/06 I will likely have my .308 Ultra fitted with a barrel. The 25/06 made by H&R (New England Firearms) is a 26" barrel and since it is a single shot, the overall length is shorter than a rifle with an "action". These Ultra rifles come with a laminated stock, and are far more accurate than one would expect for a gun costing less than $300. Check out the NEF Centerfire Rifle board and see what kind of performance can be had with one of these rifles. A single shot rifle is certainly a statement of one's confidence in being able to accurately place the first shot. God Bless You All.

Dave
"Firepower is one carefully placed shot, just make sure that it leaves a big hole."

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: 25-06
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2010, 02:29:13 AM »
My 26" handles fine. It's all relative to the pilot.

My 26" handles fine, too - if I'm out in the open.  When I'm working my way through heavy timber or srub oak or crawling through the sage I much prefer a shorter barrel.
Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Offline nomosendero

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Re: 25-06
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2010, 05:02:20 PM »
My 26" handles fine. It's all relative to the pilot.

My 26" handles fine, too - if I'm out in the open.  When I'm working my way through heavy timber or srub oak or crawling through the sage I much prefer a shorter barrel.

The sage matters not in my equation 26" is fine for that for ME, but if I am in heavy timber I typically use a totally diff/gun & cal. for that, where I hunt here local & have the heavy timber/thickets we have Hogs, Bears & Deer on the same ridges, I like my 30-06AI or 45/70 for that fun stuff!  ;D
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: 25-06
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2010, 03:38:21 AM »
only two i have right now are a 700 with a 24 inch barrel and a #1 with a 26 but to be honest its not that much differnt then a 270 and you can buy alot of them with 20 inch and shorter barrels and the standard lenght is 22. Ive given serious thought to buying a cdl myslelf and wacking it to 22.
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Offline TLARbb

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Re: 25-06
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2010, 01:41:40 PM »
All this makes me want to get my 7600 pump gun out and see what it will do.  I'm pretty sure it has a 22" tube on it.  Otherwise it would be extremely long.  My 700 bolt gun has a 24" tube.  I've had two other .25-06s a 700BDL in 1975 and a Ruger #1 in 1980 (I think, but I've slept since then).  I kick myself over those two rifles everytime I think about them (like now!).  Anyway the 700BDL, I still hear from occasionally, and the owner still singing its praise.  He said as long as he had that rifle he didn't need another one.  I have a soft spot for the .25-06.  Mine all shot the heavy bullets very well and the light ones acceptably well, but I just use something smaller for varmints (my .204 Savage rifle gets that nod now).

EJ