Author Topic: Help with making a cannon out of a WWII surplus cannon barrel  (Read 3396 times)

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Offline strangefire

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Hi everyone

     This is a big forum. lots of categories and topics and I don't know where to start but I'll manage. I love big caliber guns, The bigger and loader the better I like them. Kinda like my Marlin 450 or my 1918A3 BAR and there is my Bofors 40MM barrel that I'm going to build into a black powder cannon some day if it is at all possible? I have a few of these WWII surplus cannon barrels and I'm wondering if they are good for a cannon? And if they are good how do I plug the breech? Find a capable welder? Any suggestions would be appreciated

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Help with making a cannon out of a WWII surplus cannon barrel
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2010, 11:04:25 AM »
You would need to give dimensions for us to be able to help much.  The only part of the barrel that needs a lot of thickness is the chamber area.  The remaining part of the barrel likely would be fine as is.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
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Offline dan610324

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Re: Help with making a cannon out of a WWII surplus cannon barrel
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2010, 11:15:10 AM »
what type of cannon do you want to build ??
a free fantasy or a correct scale model of an existing cannon ??

if you want an scale model you turn it from a solid bar and drill it and use your barrel piece as a sleve
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline strangefire

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Re: Help with making a cannon out of a WWII surplus cannon barrel
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2010, 11:21:15 AM »
The chamber is still there. Here is some pictures of the barrel. it is 89" long and weighs about 400-450 pounds

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Help with making a cannon out of a WWII surplus cannon barrel
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2010, 11:30:25 AM »
Do you have any machinery available?  I am guessing that the barrel is some kind of alloy steel that will not weld easily so you may have to go with a threaded breech.

The diameters at the various cylinders would be good also.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
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Offline RocklockI

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Re: Help with making a cannon out of a WWII surplus cannon barrel
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2010, 02:30:00 PM »
Wecome ! the first best thing you did was contact this site B4 you ..."built a cannon" .

Those look real promising .

Gary
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline strangefire

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Re: Help with making a cannon out of a WWII surplus cannon barrel
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2010, 02:48:14 PM »
I do like dan610324 idea for using it as a sleeve but that would take more money that I don't have and I understand what GGaskill is saying! I think the breech can be welded but I wouldn't trust it for being safe so I like the idea of threading a breech/turret for the rear but wouldn't that make it into a class3 NFA gun? I have some Ideas for welding it but the threading a turret onto the breech does sound better! Am I using these words correctly? breech, turret?



    Thank You! Chris
    And thanks rocklock

Offline Double D

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Re: Help with making a cannon out of a WWII surplus cannon barrel
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2010, 04:42:46 PM »
I do like dan610324 idea for using it as a sleeve but that would take more money that I don't have and I understand what GGaskill is saying! I think the breech can be welded but I wouldn't trust it for being safe so I like the idea of threading a breech/turret for the rear but wouldn't that make it into a class3 NFA gun? I have some Ideas for welding it but the threading a turret onto the breech does sound better! Am I using these words correctly? breech, turret?



    Thank You! Chris
    And thanks rocklock

As long as your gun replicates a pre 1898 Cannon, NFA is not an issue.

Most likely the barrel is 4140 or something similar and takes special welding techniques.  

Offline dan610324

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Re: Help with making a cannon out of a WWII surplus cannon barrel
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2010, 05:00:09 PM »
I think you might regret yourself if you not make it look like an original piece .

what barrels was it during the cw period that had a rifled bore close to 40 mm ??
was it any ??

all steel are more or less possible to weld ,
just that some of them need to be preheated and must cool very slowly

so an shrink fit and welded breach plug would probably be less expensive then an threaded and welded plug as it need less machining time

ok it will cost to build a full size cannon ,
but you will end up with a piece thats worth approximately 15 k when its finished
just take one step at the time , build when you got the money  .
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Help with making a cannon out of a WWII surplus cannon barrel
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2010, 05:42:42 PM »
Your best bet, if you are concerned about NFA and such, it to finish off your plan and then send a letter to the ATF accurately describing your plan and ask if it is OK.  They will eventually reply with statements that explain the law and say yes or no or do it this other way and it's OK.  Generally speaking, you're OK if it is a muzzle loader or does not use ammo with cartridge case, powder, primer and projectile as a self-contained unit.

But a letter is the most sure way. 

I would suggest a shrink fitted reinforcing band (like a Parrott) around the chamber and an internally threaded plug with a couple of inches of threads.  Then you could shrink on a trunnion band to hold the trunnions.  There were many styles of guns used in the Civil War (though not in the quantity of the Napoleon, the Parrott and the wrought iron rifle) so it is likely you could find one the looks more or less like what you would build.

And you might find that you would be better off cutting the barrel into two pieces and building two guns because 89" long and 400 pounds is a pain to manuever.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
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Offline Victor3

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Re: Help with making a cannon out of a WWII surplus cannon barrel
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2010, 11:12:44 PM »
 I have a chunk of 40mm barrel I'm going to make into a breech loader. Already had a ball mould (sized to engrave into the rifling) made for it...



 I bought a tap to thread the breech and will use a modified 2" dia bolt for the plug...



 A sleeve will be shrunk on to mount the trunnions (also made from 2" bolts).

 I don't plan on a sleeve over the breech area; analysis of the material told me what it is, and my design will be more than strong enough without one.

"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes

Offline strangefire

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Re: Help with making a cannon out of a WWII surplus cannon barrel
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2010, 04:28:13 AM »
This is getting way to exciting for me! I'm learning so much about what to do with this cannon barrel! I'm glad I have 3 of them because I could go anyway I want to with these barrels. the first thing I want to do is make one to shoot.
    I like Dans idea a lot about making it CW period cannon which is going to take time and money and would be a long term project.
    I also like Victors idea for making one shoot. Victors method means I could possibly have one ready to shoot with in a year!
    I have so much to learn! I think I found the help I need to learn how to make this work right here at this forum so I would like to thank all who has posted on this topic.
                                       Thank you!!!
   

Offline KABAR2

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Re: Help with making a cannon out of a WWII surplus cannon barrel
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2010, 05:20:22 AM »
There is one more way, and that would be to copy one of the pre-1898 breech loaders
such as the Whitworth of the Civil War era.
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline dan610324

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Re: Help with making a cannon out of a WWII surplus cannon barrel
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2010, 05:46:43 AM »
its a very good idea , but maybe a little too complicated as a first build
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline jeeper1

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Re: Help with making a cannon out of a WWII surplus cannon barrel
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2010, 06:56:54 AM »
I think one of those barrels would work for a Williams rifle.
I may not be completely sane, but at least I don't think I have the power to influence the weather.

Offline guardsgunner

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Re: Help with making a cannon out of a WWII surplus cannon barrel
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2010, 10:17:25 AM »
I think KABAR2 may have the best solution for that barrel, 3 pdr. Whtiworth. providing that your ok with not having the hex bore. No welding to worry about and no design issues to worry about.

 Williams Rifle?  The confederate breechloader?

Offline strangefire

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Re: Help with making a cannon out of a WWII surplus cannon barrel
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2010, 10:19:06 AM »
I do like the witworth cannon! Now if I can find a machinist in the Grand junction, CO area that can do the work at a reasonable price. Or what kind of a machinist do I look for? Someone that specializes in heavy manufacturing? With big enough lathes to handle my barrel?

 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD_HkZ4TbWY

Offline RocklockI

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Re: Help with making a cannon out of a WWII surplus cannon barrel
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2010, 02:25:57 PM »
what was the skinny little 1.5" breech loading rifle the rebels used ?  Long range counter sniping ,I guess is what they were for  .

from the english iirc


"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline RocklockI

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Re: Help with making a cannon out of a WWII surplus cannon barrel
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2010, 02:28:10 PM »
not a whitworth
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline Zulu

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Re: Help with making a cannon out of a WWII surplus cannon barrel
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2010, 02:34:26 PM »
Mountain gun?
Zulu
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Offline RocklockI

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Re: Help with making a cannon out of a WWII surplus cannon barrel
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2010, 02:56:36 PM »
now thinking about it it was something from S.C. IIRC
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Help with making a cannon out of a WWII surplus cannon barrel
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2010, 02:58:10 PM »
1 1/2" or 2 1/4"?
GG
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Offline jeeper1

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Re: Help with making a cannon out of a WWII surplus cannon barrel
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2010, 03:00:35 PM »
1861 Williams rifle.
I may not be completely sane, but at least I don't think I have the power to influence the weather.

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Help with making a cannon out of a WWII surplus cannon barrel
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2010, 03:01:45 PM »
Now if I can find a machinist in the Grand junction, CO area that can do the work at a reasonable price.

You may have a problem finding someone to do the work due to the lawyer problem.  You may also have difficulty finding someone to work for your definition of a reasonable price.  But good luck anyway.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
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Offline jeeper1

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I may not be completely sane, but at least I don't think I have the power to influence the weather.

Offline KABAR2

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Re: Help with making a cannon out of a WWII surplus cannon barrel
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2010, 03:28:36 PM »
The Artilleryman......
Vol & N0.2  Spring 1986 page 9 through 11

Title :Unusual gun in Virginia

Author John Morris,

This describes a Whitworth 1 of 5 or 6 built in the 1850's

Bore 1.5"
overall length 82"
bore length including chamber 75"
breech cap: dia. 5 1/2" x 5 3/8" L
trunnion band length 4 5/8"
trunnion dia 2 1/2"
trunnion length 2 5/8"
length over trunnions 11 1/4"
muzzle OD 2 7/8"
weight about 240 pnds.

This is a gun that John owns and seems to be the only known example
The gun is unmarked and most likely a prototype,
John posted some info on this in one of his threads if someone wants to
look and find it that would help, sorry I don't have the time tonight.

Allen <><

Look for a machinist with a smaller shop they tend to be willing to take on smaller jobs,
sometimes it takes longer because if they get busy your job may be moved to the side....




Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline guardsgunner

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Re: Help with making a cannon out of a WWII surplus cannon barrel
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2010, 03:30:11 PM »
I was curious if the Williams rifle was really a Williams gun as none of them were rifled. Thought maybe I had missed another. The only refernce to them being rifled comes from the commander of the 66 Ill who claims Lt. Holt's williams guns were rifled.
What they really looked like.  

http://freepages.military.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~us14thkyinfantry/photo/reunion.html

and the one my buddy built. Some parts had to be scaled up to meet NSSA requirements.



Bob

Offline guardsgunner

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Re: Help with making a cannon out of a WWII surplus cannon barrel
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2010, 03:33:55 PM »
There have been some recovered rounds for the 3pdr. Whitworth found in FL.

Offline KABAR2

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Re: Help with making a cannon out of a WWII surplus cannon barrel
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2010, 03:36:53 PM »
Well I did a quick search and found it!  ;D

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,127064.0.html
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline RocklockI

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Re: Help with making a cannon out of a WWII surplus cannon barrel
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2010, 03:37:18 PM »
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.