Redding Ultramag press to form 223 Short from 223 Rem in 1,000 rnd batches?

[briannmilewis]

As our 223 Short project moves along, Jed has successfully reformed 223 Short brass from 223 Remington and 221 Remington Fireball using a standard press in one stroke. I am thinking a little ahead and have come to the conclusion that a dedicated forming press could very well be in my future if I want to reform brass in 1,000 round batches.

I am thinking that the Redding Ultramag with it being able to produce a large amount of force compared with average presses would be a good idea, thay can be had new for $275. Below is what we have to accomplish. Of course, if 221 FB brass was as cheap as 223 Rem brass, then we would start with that and this question would not be an issue as the length change would only be 1.400 to 1.125, rather than 1.760 to 1.125 using 223 Rem parent cases.



Has anyone formed brass in large batches on different presses including the Ultramag? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Couger]

Have you considered "breaking" your project into steps?  And lots of 200 cases each?

Also the UltraMag Press is an excellent press and one that I want to purchase as well,  but have you considered using the Redding T-7 turret press with its seven stations and extra-heavy construction?  Would that facilitate moving from step to step if each die is already set up?

From the looks of the saw, that looks like it will be a slow and even tedious step, which is bound to happen when prepping and conditioning brass ......

of course I would pay special attention to making sure the length is exactly "right,"  and plan on shooting/fore-forming and tumbling each case in media before I considered it "finished."

And as much work as you're doing to create this new wildcat, are you also conditioning the primer pocket and flash hole? (inside and out?)

A couple things I'd be sure to do would be to use graphite lubricant everywhere I could, and when case-forming use a carbide sizer-bead for inside the necks. Anything/everything to minimize friction.

[jedman]

    Brian,

    Just thought I would chime in on this.  In the case of forming the 223 short, the case forming is the eaisest part of the whole process.  Forming either the 223 or the 221 case is about the same it doesnt take alot of force to form them since I started using LEE sizing wax.  Other brands of case lube didnt work good at all, with the LEE lube just a tiny little bit works wonders.
   In making up 223 short brass ready to load the first time is time consuming, but if the collet die idea works out well it should be easy after that.
  Here is the process I have used to make the brass so far,
Starting with the FL sizing die , remove the neck sizing stem and collet nut, run all your lubed cases thru the die that way, this leaves the long neck.

Cut off excess neck with the mini saw to within .010 of finish size.

De burr the inside of case neck, so trimmer pilot can enter neck.

Run all of the cases thru the case trimmer to finished length.

De burr inside and outside of the neck, lube inside of case neck.

Reinstall the neck sizing stem into the FL die and resize all the cases again, this sizes the inside of the neck to approx. .223 I.D..

At this point you are ready to load them for fire forming,  So to end up with a finished fire formed case you have alot of work involved, but with a wildcat you can expect that.     Jed

[Couger]

What is this cartridge 'officially' called?

Also what weight of bullet you going to use?  At what expected velocity?  And what twist rate?

This new round reminds me of the .22 Sabre or 'Sabre Jet.'  I've only read about that improved version of the .22 Jet, but please share your findings - from making the new brass and then ammo, to shooting and chronoing the new round.   

[briannmilewis]

Wow, thanks for all input, very valuable. Jed of course is on our wildcat team and his detailed process is what we have done so far.

The round is called the 223 Short. We are at the stage where the first barrel is being chambered and so Shane (our range tester) will be providing all the load data and chrono results hopefully starting in a few weeks and however long he needs. Shane is interested in the Short as a cheap practice round for target competition, so his selection of bullets and powders will reflect that.

The 223 Short is exactly between the charges in the 22 Hornet and 221 Rem Fireball. This space has traditionally been occupied by the 218 Bee and 22 Rem Jet, and their variants, they each hold about 10% less powder than the Short. I wanted a cartridge with a modern case design to occupy that space. It should make a solid 225 yd coyote round - 22 Hornet 150 yds and 221 FB 300 yds. The powder charge will be about 17.5g of L'il Gun as an example - 22 Hornet is 14g of L'il Gun and 221 FB is 21g of L'il Gun.

We will keep updating our thread on the project as we proceed. Brian.

[briannmilewis]

Wow, thanks for all input, very valuable. Jed of course is on our wildcat team and his detailed process is what we have done so far.

The round is called the 223 Short. We are at the stage where the first barrel is being chambered and so Shane (our range tester) will be providing all the load data and chrono results hopefully starting in a few weeks and however long he needs. Shane is interested in the Short as a cheap practice round for target competition, so his selection of bullets and powders will reflect that.

The 223 Short is exactly between the charges in the 22 Hornet and 221 Rem Fireball. This space has traditionally been occupied by the 218 Bee and 22 Rem Jet, and their variants, they each hold about 10% less powder than the Short. I wanted a cartridge with a modern case design to occupy that space. It should make a solid 225 yd coyote round - 22 Hornet 150 yds and 221 FB 300 yds. The powder charge will be about 17.5g of L'il Gun as an example - 22 Hornet is 14g of L'il Gun and 221 FB is 21g of L'il Gun.

We will keep updating our thread on the project as we proceed. Brian.

[Bull45cal]

Shane here (Range Tester - cool title huh), with just a little more information that was requested.

First the barrel is a 21" Full Bull, 1:7 twist throated to normal 221 FB depth, with larger than normal neck dia.

I will be starting with Hornady 40gr. V-Max bullets pushed to between 3100 -3300 fps.
Next will be 55gr. V-Max and finally 75gr. V-Max.

The 1:7 twist is due to the need to stabilize the 75gr. V-Max bullets.  Hopefully, the 40gr V-Max bullets will not be adversely affected by the high twist rate.

Shane