Author Topic: Nosler partition vs Barnes TSX in 308 Win (Read 8781 times)

TommyD · « **on:** May 11, 2010, 02:43:58 PM »

Hi All,

The land where I hunt will be allowing rifle hunting of whitetail deer for the first time this fall. I am planning to use a .308 Win rifle and reload my own ammo.

Unfortunately, it seems that the most expensive bullets seem to be the ones that give me the best accuracy in my rifle. In my testing so far, Nosler partition 165 grain has proven the most accurate. The only bullet that I still plan to test is the 165 grain Barnes triple shock.. I bought a box today (a couple of bucks cheaper than the partitions), but won’t be able to test the accuracy for a couple of weeks.

The land I hunt (for the last 3 years) is in western New York. I will be shooting across an open field. Opening day weather in November has ranged from 20 degrees with a light dusting of snow to driving rain (2008). The three years I have hunted the land I have had opening day success with a muzzleloader at ranges from 100-140 yards. The way my hunting blind is set up, the shots will probably be no more than 160 yards, 200 at the outside.

The four times I have hunted deer in the past, my bullet of choice has been the Hornady 300 gr XTP .452 bullet. Once in a revolver at 45 yards, and 3 times with the muzzleloader. The bit, heavy, slow bullets have given me entirely satisfactory one shot stops when placed in the boiler room. But I don’t have any experience with rifle hunting and light fast bullets. I have read that bullet construction makes a huge difference in these .308 bullets.

If the 165 grain Barnes triple shock (TSX) proves as accurate as the 165 grain Nosler Partition, which one would you folks recommend? Any real world experience with them? Reading the manufacturers advertising, they all sound wonderful.

Tom

mirage1988 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 11, 2010, 02:50:30 PM »

The Nosler partition has been around for over 50 years for a reason-it just plain works! I have used the 165 grain NP in 30/06 for 20 years and the furthest a deer ran was 30 yards.

charles p · « **Reply #2 on:** May 11, 2010, 03:32:09 PM »

No reason to buy the most expensive bullet or even a 165 grain bullet. A Rem CoreLokt in 150 grain should work just fine. Have you tried this for accuracy?

wind drift · « **Reply #3 on:** May 11, 2010, 04:06:17 PM »

I have been federal pre. btsp gamekings for the past 15 years and they do the job on hogs,deer, and elk.

TommyD · « **Reply #4 on:** May 11, 2010, 04:08:18 PM »

Quote from: charles p on May 11, 2010, 03:32:09 PM

No reason to buy the most expensive bullet or even a 165 grain bullet. A Rem CoreLokt in 150 grain should work just fine. Have you tried this for accuracy?

The CoreLokt was one of the first bullets I tried, both in 150 and 165. My groups were not as tight or consistent as with the Noslers. A pity, as the bulk price from Midway and Cabelas is a whole lot less expensive than the Noslers.

One arbitrary test I use is that I want my 308 hunting ammo to shoot tighter groups than my 22 LR at 160 yards. The Noslers did. The Remingtons didn't. I used different loads of H335, IMR 4064, and Varget. Remington brass and CCI BR2 primers.

I have yet to try the Barnes. Pretty bullets and impressive videos on their website showing the effect on ballistic gelatin. But the laboratory is one thing, and performance in the field can be another. I have heard a lot of good things about the Noslers over the years, but don't know much about the Barnes.

Tom

charles p · « **Reply #5 on:** May 11, 2010, 05:54:39 PM »

The Noslers shoot very well on paper, but not as good on deer. Get yourself a big flashlight and plenty of batteries. A lot of friends come in handy as well. Those bullets are great on one deer and dismal on the next. You just never know what to expect next, regardless of range.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #6 on:** May 11, 2010, 06:04:52 PM »

I see no need to shoot barnes bullets on deer especially with a 308. I shot deer this year at 220 yards one time, and with a federal 180 gr soft point went clear through a big buck and out the other side with a DRT kill. A barnes bullet will just penetrate more but if a soft point is going through , who needs a better penetrating bullet?

v-man · « **Reply #7 on:** May 11, 2010, 06:35:34 PM »

All the above is correct as I see it because deer are not that hard to kill. It is interesting that you have named my 2 favorite bullets in your question. (though they are expensive) I have never seen a NP disappoint anyone but the deer/hog. However I have 2 kills with a TSX in my .308 and WOW! The exit wounds were huge making for a blood trail that would have been easy to follow if the deer had not expired on the spot. One of them was hit in the chest at 75yds. Te TSX made a big exit wound and then struck the "armpit" of the front leg. Since it was already fully expanded and greatly decelerated it did not penetrate the leg but rather it literally ripped the leg off hanging only by the hide of the front shoulder area. I was hoping to find the bullet close by but never did.

yooper77 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 11, 2010, 06:46:02 PM »

Stick with the Nosler Partitions since they will serve you well in any situation.

I can find Partitions much cheaper than Barnes also, so shop around.

yooper77

BBF · « **Reply #9 on:** May 12, 2010, 06:00:19 AM »

There are so many bullet, weights and powder combinations available for a 308 Win that I find it strange that only those two premium loads are acceptable in accuracy at the range you require.

TommyD · « **Reply #10 on:** May 13, 2010, 12:25:09 AM »

Quote from: BBF on May 12, 2010, 06:00:19 AM

There are so many bullet, weights and powder combinations available for a 308 Win that I find it strange that only those two premium loads are acceptable in accuracy at the range you require.

I am not saying that these are the only possible combinations. No doubt that there may be others just as accurate. But these two happen to work in my rifle. And my question is whether one of these two bullets is significantly better for deer.

Accuracy I can test on paper. But I have not shot a deer with a 308 rifle. I can tell you from experience that a Hornady .452 300 grain XTP will drop a deer every time if you put it behind one shoulder and it comes out behind the other shoulder. But it doesn't fit in my 308 Win rifle.

Tom

BBF · « **Reply #11 on:** May 13, 2010, 06:45:31 AM »

I like lead in the bullets I use, so my "vote" goes to Nosler.

TommyD · « **Reply #12 on:** May 13, 2010, 04:50:41 PM »

Quote from: BBF on May 13, 2010, 06:45:31 AM

I like lead in the bullets I use, so my "vote" goes to Nosler.

Velocity is no substitude for Mass

Thank you.

I have to say that I really like your "Velocity is no substitute for mass" tag line. Being a large bore revolver shooter, I can appreciate the truth of it.

Tom

RWK · « **Reply #13 on:** May 14, 2010, 08:01:25 AM »

Charles P. If you hit them right they stay put, don't blame the bullet. Rich

Bigeasy · « **Reply #14 on:** May 14, 2010, 09:23:58 AM »

Tom

Use cheap bullets for practice, and save the expensive stuff for the real thing. I have used NP's for years in a variety of calibers, and they work fine, including on whitetail. The soft front half opens up quick and does a lot of damage on lightly constructed game, while the rear half holds together and penetrates like crazy. It is never a bad choice to use premium bullets when hunting big game, and the most accurate load in your rifle is a confidence builder. Considering the cost of a big game hunt, bullets are cheap. I guess its my age showing, but I have never used Barnes TSX bullets as I have always been happy with Nosler's when using a rifle.

Larry

TommyD · « **Reply #15 on:** May 14, 2010, 04:24:51 PM »

Quote from: Bigeasy on May 14, 2010, 09:23:58 AM

Tom

Use cheap bullets for practice, and save the expensive stuff for the real thing. I have used NP's for years in a variety of calibers, and they work fine, including on whitetail. The soft front half opens up quick and does a lot of damage on lightly constructed game, while the rear half holds together and penetrates like crazy. It is never a bad choice to use premium bullets when hunting big game, and the most accurate load in your rifle is a confidence builder. Considering the cost of a big game hunt, bullets are cheap. I guess its my age showing, but I have never used Barnes TSX bullets as I have always been happy with Nosler's when using a rifle.

Larry

I am definitely leaning towards the Noslers for hunting. Every once in a while there will be somebody who says it failed them, but the vast majority of people I talk to say it is the way to go.

I am a firm believer in practice. I got a bulk order of Remingtons to practice with. I also practice a lot with my 22 LR sporter rifle. I have been firing about 1500 rounds in practice each summer for the last couple of years. Not the spray and pray type shooting, as Col. Cooper used to call it. Each shot deliberate at 50, 100 ,and 160 yards. I have a nice little bolt action rifle that will keep 5 shot groups inside the 3 inch black at 160 yards if the wind is quiet.

That is why I never felt undergunned with my muzzleloader. The sheer volume of repetition gave me great confidence that I could do my part on opening day. The only time I was nervous was opening day 2008. Fog alternating with pouring rain. In my blind I was relatively dry, but there is always that little nagging doubt if the gun will actually go off when I pull the trigger. The inlines are supposed to be "weather proof" but you never know. A nice little 6 pointer presented a quartering away shot at 100 yards. I lined up the crosshairs, said a little prayer, and pressed the trigger. Fortune smiled upon me and it went off. The buck leaped in the air, took a couple of staggering steps and then crumpled on the spot.

Tom

High Brass · « **Reply #16 on:** May 21, 2010, 07:23:51 AM »

Of the two I'd likely use the Noslers but I have no experience to support that statement so keep that in mind. I don't know if you've tried them or have any interest but I would reccommend the 165gr Hornady SP Interlock. I would be surprised if you didn't get at least acceptible accuracy and I can vogue for their performance on deer.

podunk kennels · « **Reply #17 on:** May 24, 2010, 10:52:50 AM »

For deer I dont like either with the .308s velocities. The Nosler ballistic tip or Hornady SST IMO is better suited to deer sized game. And much easier on the wallet.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #18 on:** May 24, 2010, 11:42:16 AM »

The little piggy in the picture was killed with a 150 grain Barnes round, loaded by Federal.
Shot the pig about 60 to 75 yards and it put a nice hole in him in the boiler room and exited.
The guys were teasing me about my in ability to shoot close a couple years before. (could not hit a pig at 50, 100, or a coyote at 30 yards Did connect at 200+ and again on same running hog at about 325+ yards) and as the pig stood up the guide yelled for me to sick another in him. I did and it too went throug about the same place and put a 308 Hole in and a 40 caliber hole out Little meat loss and the two rounds exited about an inch and a half from each other, I was aiming at the far leg. the entrance holes were about 4" apart.
I had to use the Barnes as it was a lead free hunting area. other than that it would have been either a Remington 180 grain Round nose or a federal 165 Grain soft point.
If you are shooting less than 200 yards I would use what ever as a bullet. Even a 2" group at 100 yards will still be shooting minute of deer aiming at the center of the shoulder. not saying I would be happy with a 2" group but it will still kill a deer. You are not trying to shoot tree rats at 200 yards or have to weave a round through hostages to shoot a deer. A 1" group is fine as a hunting load.

Justin10mm · « **Reply #19 on:** May 27, 2010, 01:51:22 PM »

Go with the Partition, TSX is to tough a bullet for soft deer.

Dave in WV · « **Reply #20 on:** May 27, 2010, 04:04:17 PM »

I have no experience with either bullet but I would use the Nosler. I use 165gr Remington CoreLokts and Hornady 165gr Interlock flat base bullets in my 30-06 loaded to .308 velocity. I get good accuracy and terminal performance. IMHO you would like the terminal performance of a good cup and core bullet over a premium penetration bullet.

RWK · « **Reply #21 on:** June 03, 2010, 02:45:35 PM »

Nosler partitions or accubonds.

TommyD · « **Reply #22 on:** November 23, 2010, 05:02:49 AM »

Thanks for all your input, everyone. Here is my hunting report.

I ended up going with the 168 grain Barnes TTSX. There was a bill to legalize rifle hunting in Wyoming county where my hunting property is, but it never made it out of committee in the New York State Senate this year. So I went with my Encore pistol in 308.

On opening day (last Saturday) I harvested two does at over 100 yards. One was a quartering away shot with the bullet exiting just over the opposite shoulder, and the other was a direct broadside shot. Full penetration on both. Both dropped like a stone with a single shot.

You can see the photos here: http://homepage.mac.com/paradigm1/p/hunt2010/index.html
Towards the bottom of that page is a link to the wound ballistics photos.

Tom

Mohawk · « **Reply #23 on:** November 23, 2010, 01:59:03 PM »

Any expanding soft point in .308 is suitable provided they are accurate. As to the quickest kill, well you might want to ask the deer in question. Broadside through the vitals I think few would survive past 150 yds, worse case. Some folks feel the deer should drop everytime and that is fine. But I don't mind finding my deer closer than I find my Rotweiler's lost ball. I quit worrying about bullet types and concentrated on placement for the last 7 seasons and have been much satisfied because of it. Just my thoughts.....

charles p · « **Reply #24 on:** November 23, 2010, 03:37:59 PM »

I've taken five deer this year with a 308 (model 7). I misread the Nosler bullet specs and incorrectly assumed the writer was talking about the ballistic tip rather than the partition. I am not a BT fan at all, but they are very accurate in all my rifles. Never shot a deer with a partition except in 243. I've never recived my best accuracy with a partition.

I still see no need for a premium bullet in a 30 cal diameter. Give me a lead cup and core bullet any day, and a flat base is my favorite rather than a boattail.

I'm approaching my 200th deer kill. About 80% of them were with a rifle. Most were in logging lanes or fields, and at all ranges. I've used 30 cal bullets from 125 grain to 180 grain. I think a 150 grain is about right in 30 cal, but each to his own. I've used a lot of Hornady and Sierra bullets as well as Rem Core Lokts.

TommyD · « **Reply #25 on:** November 23, 2010, 04:30:03 PM »

I agree with you wholeheartedly on the accuracy. Placement of the shot is everything. I didn't pick the Barnes because it is some kind of "magic bullet." I picked it because I was able obtain the greatest accuracy in my handloads with it, as well a a reputation for complete penetration.

I didn't pick the Barnes just because it is a "premium" bullet. I really would have liked to be able to use the Remington Core-lokt bullet. It is available in bulk at a very good price and has a reputation for good performance on deer. But my gun just didn't like it. After testing a dozen or so loads with both the 150 and 165 remingtons, I gave up on it. I have read the Sierra GameKing is supposed to be quite accurate, but it was back ordered at Cabelas and Midway for months and I never got a chance to try it.

The Barnes was available, so I tried it. It gave me great accuracy with Varget powder. So that's what I took with me on opening day. The two deer I took never knew what hit them. My freezer is filled.

Tom

Mohawk · « **Reply #26 on:** November 23, 2010, 06:50:37 PM »

Freezer is filled. That's the important thing , Tom. Good Eating! Save a few for us..... the season is still young (:

Drilling Man · « **Reply #27 on:** November 24, 2010, 03:54:37 AM »

I always get a kick out of folks who cry and whine about the price of premium hunting bullets, (for reloading) as had i only bought one box of NP's back in the early 1980's for my "go to gun", i'd just now be finishing up shooting them. That's after working up a load and shooting 26 big game animals out of that first box!

BUT, once i had the load worked up, i bought a few more boxes of the same NP's. Do you think i will live long enough to use them up?? Two boxes, about $40.00 for all the "premium" bullets i will shoot out of this gun for the rest of my life! If it was a hundred dollars, it would be cheap!!

When i practise, i use a cheaper bullet of the same weight/style, and keep the NP's for checking the sights and actual hunting.

A life time of hunting with TWO boxes of bullets, now why would i cry and whine about that???

DM

Mohawk · « **Reply #28 on:** November 24, 2010, 07:46:55 AM »

I know the feeling. I bought 40 rds of the Buffalo Bore .38 Spl 158 gr Lead Hollow Points about two years ago. Fired one to see where it was hitting....hit POA. Used another to take a deer this month. Minus any burglars trying to kill me I should get another 38 deer before another purchase is required. My first deer in '86 was with a 30-06 bullet bought in the late '60's.

rickt300 · « **Reply #29 on:** November 25, 2010, 08:20:36 AM »

My Barnes interest ended with the early versions and I mean versions. If they had made a better bullet in the beginning and had not changed the design yearly I might still use them but I wasted far too much money chasing the "ideal" mono metal bullet. I find the light for caliber partitions and the heavy for caliber Ballistic tips perfect deer medicine.