Author Topic: Troopers were a little too forceful  (Read 1844 times)

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Offline myronman3

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Re: Troopers were a little too forceful
« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2010, 08:18:10 AM »
what blows my mind is the acceptance of it, especially here of all places.   given this womans background, and the fact that sourdough knows her and vouches for her, i trust her if she says they were overly aggresive.   i have no problem with 'the man' checking out the report, and i doubt she had a problem with them checking it either.  the complaint here is they were overly aggresive AND that after they checked the situation out, they intruded on her rights by insisting she put the gun in a pocket.   

  i had a friend tell me a story about hunting one day with his grandfather.   coming out of the woods to the vehicle,  dnr warden sue miller jumped out of the brush, gun draw and aimed at them, and ordered my friend and his elderly grandfather to the ground.  why?  just because.  there was no report of anything, she just wanted to check their licenses.   outragous.   if she had pulled that on me, rest assured i would have been in her boss's office the next monday morning with my grandfather.   steve just let it go; which i think is a mistake.
     

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Troopers were a little too forceful
« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2010, 08:29:17 AM »
Put the shoe on the other foot , if they broke the law then she should press charges , if not then let it go and quit acting like a baby .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline myronman3

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Re: Troopers were a little too forceful
« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2010, 09:22:42 AM »
if someone walks up and points a gun in your face, would you just let it go?  i sure as hell wouldnt.  like i said,  would have them standing tall before their boss the next business day.  in these days of dash cams and everything else, i am willing to bet there is footage out there of this which the supervisor or other officials can review to see the actual incident. 

Offline ironglow

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Re: Troopers were a little too forceful
« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2010, 09:49:54 AM »
So many issues here..  She had a right to carry as she did and I suppose the cops had a good reason just to check her out. I would rather the scene went something like this:
    
  Police; Mam, how is it you are carrying a handgun in the ready position" ? Hope you're not having trouble, can we help" ?

  Lady; " No problem officers, I'm just going over to Mom's and I didn't happen bring my purse or holster with me. Thanks for checking though; it shows you're doing your job" !

     The fact that this meeting took 20 minutes sounds like much more was said and/or done than what we are reading.

  All that being said, my sister & brother-in-law live in Sourdough's neighborhood and they keep a 45/70 by the back door in their house and a 12 ga with slugs at hand in their garage...just in case. Bears and moose are at times, not concerned with the "little courtesies". :D
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Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Troopers were a little too forceful
« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2010, 02:56:37 PM »
if someone walks up and points a gun in your face, would you just let it go?  i sure as hell wouldnt.  like i said,  would have them standing tall before their boss the next business day.  in these days of dash cams and everything else, i am willing to bet there is footage out there of this which the supervisor or other officials can review to see the actual incident. 
Granted if she thinks the police over steped thier bounds then she should demand footage and see if the police did something wrong.
But I will still maintain and Sourdough if you take offense to this then sorry, I am sure if police came by and saw you you would wave and smile and just yell out on my way down to so and so's house, maybe even stick out a thumb.
Anyone walking down the street with a handgun should have a police car stop and see if everything is OK.  My first thought is that they were in trouble and see if you can help.  Not that they did something wrong.  Start the conversation with " Hello, Maam, Is everything OK?  May be over the loud speaker my be through the open window.
I have a police buddy that has had Duck hunters point guns at him, mostly by mistake but still point guns at him in the exicution of his duties.
He actually arrested me once and was professional about it, that is how we became friends.
Once the police deemed there is no longer a threat then off the two should have gone or offered to give her a ride to her mom's.
I don't see the problem as long as the police were professional.  If they were not then there is a problem.
The lady cop that at gun point checked hunting licenses was wrong nad she should be spoken to. 

Offline beerbelly

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Re: Troopers were a little too forceful
« Reply #35 on: May 13, 2010, 04:03:52 PM »
Same old BS! The cops and ex-cops on this board are going to jump to the defense of their thug brother cops, no matter what!
  The woman broke NO law , they had NO business messing with her!
                                Beerbelly

Offline myronman3

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Re: Troopers were a little too forceful
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2010, 05:50:51 PM »
Same old BS! The cops and ex-cops on this board are going to jump to the defense of their thug brother cops, no matter what!
  The woman broke NO law , they had NO business messing with her!
                                Beerbelly

actually, i have found them to be more level-headed and fair regarding their posts. 
    i understand that 99% of cops are good people who just want to go home safely after their shift.  and i am willing to bet that the cops in this story are probably pretty good officers, but if i were involved i would want to see all the video and audio evidence, then talk to the woman, and the officers to see what everyone had to say.  after reviewing all of that, probably have a sit down with the people involved and figure out a happy resolution to this.  i dont think that would be too hard to accomplish.   
   i dont want the cops to adopt policys that will get more cops killed, and i dont want people's rights intruded upon.   if level heads prevail, perhaps something good will come out of this situation.

Offline myronman3

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Re: Troopers were a little too forceful
« Reply #37 on: May 13, 2010, 05:51:36 PM »
let me change that to 95% of cops....lol

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Troopers were a little too forceful
« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2010, 06:19:40 PM »
You guys forgetting that this is in ALASKA. You know the place where a teacher got eaten by wolves not long ago.  ???  Not sure I would walk around with a handgun in my hand and I totally understand the officers approacing her, but considering where this occured I think she was within her rights to hand carry the weapon, and maybe prudent in her decision. When the SHTF it may be more prudent to have a gun in your hand than your "attitude".

 
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Troopers were a little too forceful
« Reply #39 on: May 13, 2010, 06:49:30 PM »
I will admit, if I lived down in some of the areas of the country you guys live in I too might be concerned.  But you have to realize up here we are in a whole differant world.  Most people go armed all the time when away from the cities.  But some of us still go armed even down town.  Yes we wear shoulder holsters, hip holsters, jackets with big pockets, anything to hold our firearm.  Many of us are not really concerned with keeping it hid, just keeping it comfortable.  

There are hugh Brown Bears living in down town Anchorage, our largest city.  Anchorage has many Green Belts running through the city.  These green belts follow streams that run from the mountains to Cook Inlet.  These streams have Salmon runs going upstream to spawn.  At night when people are not around the Brown Bears come out to feed on the fish.  Then in early morning the Bears go into hiding.  During the day people walk, ride bikes, or fish, within a few yards to a few feet of these bears and never know it.  A few times a year some Bears for one reason or another decides not to keep a low profile.  They have runins with people and that is a bad thing for the people and for the bears.  It's a bad thing when a Brown Bear runs down a bicyclist of jogger and eats them right there in the city.  At this point the offending Bear is hunted down and killed.  Sometimes a few others are taken out in the process, but these few bears don't make a dent in the overall Brown Bear population in down town Anchorage.

Here in my yard while I occasionally do have a Grizzly back there, I am more concerned with Mama Moose.  When they drop their calves they get rather aggressive.  A couple of years ago I had a Moose Cow chase me down the power line cut behind my house.  I was on my motorcycle (dirt bike) and was able to get away.  I notified the neighbors, and put a notice up at the entrance of our subdivision.  A few days later the little girl living three houses down the street was chased by the same Cow Moose after getting off the school bus.  She had the smarts not to try and get to the house, she dove under her Mom's car.  The bus driver called the Troopers.  At first the Troopers refused to come, but the bus dispatcher finally convenced them they were really needed.  When the responding Trooper arrived he got out of his car and started walking towards the house.  Meantime the little girl is still hiding under the car.  Half way to the house the Cow charged from behind the willows beside the drive.  Trooper pulled his Glock and emptied it point blank into the Cow, as she charged.  She hit him and knocked him down as she fell, dead.

So you can understand why we don't get upset or think anything about it when we see someone walking down the street carrying a gun in their hands.
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Offline wreckhog

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Re: Troopers were a little too forceful
« Reply #40 on: May 14, 2010, 03:06:32 AM »
The other side of downtown Anchoorage is that the oil field workers come down, spend all their money and get really drunk. Then they have riots, bar clearing fights, and shoot each other. The cops really are not keen on them wilding in the streets all holding handguns.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Troopers were a little too forceful
« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2010, 03:21:08 AM »
One - when would someone so well versed in Alaska Bears choose a snub nosed 38 as grizz medicine ? That in itself to me would beg the question what are you really doing . The fact she did not offer her experince with weapons may have been because she knew her choice of weapons was so far off base it would only cast doubt on her other ansewers . This whole ordeal is starting to smell really fishy . Makes me wonder if the cops investigated deep enough .
 And living in bear country would be less stressful than in many inter cities ,where bears are involved its easy to ID a problem . In a city where in places many of the people around you would kill you for your money and you don't know which ones are in the bunch that would makes it just as important to dress so you can access your weapon when needed .
If the woman involved here felt a need to carry in hand she could have used the shopping bag carry mode and never raised an eyebrow.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline myronman3

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Re: Troopers were a little too forceful
« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2010, 03:37:52 AM »
some of you people criticizing her need to go up to sourdoughs neighborhood and take a walk unarmed.   you know, put your money where your mouth is.   
    shopping bag carry mode?   i think for that comment, you should take a shopping bag, cut two eye holes and a small mouth hole in it and put it over your head for the rest of the day- a la "the unknown comic". 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt0wCLKQsfI

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Troopers were a little too forceful
« Reply #43 on: May 14, 2010, 04:10:43 AM »
I think you should walk where I work at times , Many people use that mode of carry . I guess you may not know how it works , you get a bag , (empty) hold it so you gun grip can be wher the top of the bag is , you close the bag around the grip with bbl pointing toward the bottom of the bag . Some cut a slit for trigger finger . Revolvers work best for this application . Also its for close range point shooting . The method was developed for nder cover work years ago. I have yet to take a personal protectio class that does not offer it as a good way to go to cars in late night parking lots and other places where one may not have time to draw. I never said she should go unarmed just descrete may be better. As for bears we now have them in spades where i live and they come in the yard often at night . They aren't the grizz or brown bears they are the Blacks in the 300 to 500 lb range , you know the kind that attack more people and kill more people than the other ones . Oh I don't depend on a 38 snub nope its a 870 12 ga. with 000 buck then a slug .
 
There were many smart azz replys i could have posted in comic style but I didn't , hope the new carry mode helps you one day if you get in a bad parking lot or neighbor hood full of bad bears .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Ron T.

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Re: Troopers were a little too forceful
« Reply #44 on: May 14, 2010, 04:38:54 AM »
Someone walking with a snub-nosed .38 Special in their hand indicates to me that they have the intent to use the gun at any moment.

If you're as well established as this woman supposedly is, I can't imagine she doesn't have a holster for a .38 snub-nosed revolver and/or a jacket or a pair of slacks with a pocket big enough to totally hold that type of handgun.

While she may have been within her rights to walk down a public street with the handgun in her hand, she was "pushing-the-law" as well as good judgement to do so.

If I was also out of a walk and she approached me carrying a pistol like that... it might have been a tragic meeting since such a meeting would have caused me to draw my pistol as well.

I don't blame the cops for approaching her with guns drawn.  How could they determine she wasn't some kind of nut-cake out to kill anyone she met on her walk?  There's all kinds of mental cases walking around out there... who's to say she wasn't one of 'em?


Strength & Honor...

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"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."  - Thomas Jefferson

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Troopers were a little too forceful
« Reply #45 on: May 14, 2010, 04:45:44 AM »
Dang right she was ready too use it---and she was breaking NO law.
This is the point--she was breaking no law.
I would, and am, more concerned about an officer of the law being concerned than her carrying a firearm legally.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Sourdough

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Re: Troopers were a little too forceful
« Reply #46 on: May 14, 2010, 05:14:30 AM »
First off guys there is no reason to hide it.  She was doing nothing wrong, or nothing others do not do every day.  I talked to her yesterday, she said she never yelled, they were the ones yelling.  She also said they threatened to haul her in and let her explain to the Leutenant why she would not hide her gun.  When she reminded them there was no reason to hide it that Alaska is an open carry state.  Then they threatened to confiscate her gun, aqnd charge her with wreckless endangerment, if she did not hide it.  These guys were totally out of line.
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Troopers were a little too forceful
« Reply #47 on: May 14, 2010, 05:30:34 AM »
... they threatened to haul her in and let her explain to the Leutenant... they threatened to confiscate her gun if she did not hide it. ...

Y'all say what you want about lawyers, but if I were her attorney and:
all the facts as we know them are as have been posted here; and
either of these things happened; and
she had the guts to tough out the fight,

Somebody would be paying her a lot of money!  Occasionally governments need to be reminded we are not a police state!
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Offline nw_hunter

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Re: Troopers were a little too forceful
« Reply #48 on: May 14, 2010, 05:43:26 AM »
First off guys there is no reason to hide it.  She was doing nothing wrong, or nothing others do not do every day.  I talked to her yesterday, she said she never yelled, they were the ones yelling.  She also said they threatened to haul her in and let her explain to the Leutenant why she would not hide her gun.  When she reminded them there was no reason to hide it that Alaska is an open carry state.  Then they threatened to confiscate her gun, aqnd charge her with wreckless endangerment, if she did not hide it.  These guys were totally out of line.


You say there was no reason to hide it! I think it was said, she was near a school. If I saw someone walking near our school with a visible gun in their hand........I would be concerned., and cautious when approaching them.

If she is so well trained and gun savvy, why would she carry a lil 38 spl, and not a 44 mag in big bear country? There are two sides to every story, and your only giving us, your friends side. "She said, they said"

I don't live in Alaska, but in my little Oregon country town we have a large cougar and black bear population living nearby, and they do come to town at times.When I take my morning walk, I carry a walking staff. If I carried a visible pistol in my hand, I would expect to be stopped and checked in the same manner you described.Not quite the same danger involved as you have in Alaska, but just trying to see things from the other side.

If she had carried a holstered weapon walking down the street, I'm sure she would have gone unnoticed.





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Offline myronman3

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Re: Troopers were a little too forceful
« Reply #49 on: May 14, 2010, 06:19:41 AM »
a walking staff?   concerned about the predators having something to clean their teeth with after they eat you?    :D
   i am out of this one.  the last thing i am going to say is that in the future, when i see you guys complaining about the nanny state, i am going to throw is right in your face.  be forewarned.   ;D

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Troopers were a little too forceful
« Reply #50 on: May 14, 2010, 06:40:16 AM »
SEEMS THERE IS SELECTIVE READING GOING ON HERE! The post said a mile from the school and it is IN ALASKA!!! NOT  New york city! You guys make me laugh!

I dont blame the officers for asking her what was up but they are from Alaska too aint they?
“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

Offline ironglow

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Re: Troopers were a little too forceful
« Reply #51 on: May 14, 2010, 07:01:33 AM »
If Sourdough knows the lady and knows her to be sensible and level headed, that should speak much toward the discussion. Of course, we must all be careful not to apply our local standards to other folk's neighborhoods. Things I regularly do where I live..shooting, guns, gun carry etc, would get me in trouble in a city just 40 miles away. That's why I live where I do and not in the city.
   Alaskans generally, seem to be independant people who appreciate life less restricted...that's why they live in Alaska, and not Chicago.
  As far as the lady carrying only a .38, could be that's all she had on hand..and it beats a sharp stick.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline nw_hunter

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Re: Troopers were a little too forceful
« Reply #52 on: May 14, 2010, 09:15:49 AM »
a walking staff?   concerned about the predators having something to clean their teeth with after they eat you?    :D
   i am out of this one.  the last thing i am going to say is that in the future, when i see you guys complaining about the nanny state, i am going to throw is right in your face.  be forewarned.   ;D


Never said I didn't have anything else with me! However!, my stick is a pretty good deterrent for dogs and two footed varmints.Might ward off a big cat, but I wouldn't want to PO a bear with it.Wouldn't want to use my puny 38 on one either.I would think living in Alaska a person would know to use a little more firepower.

Carrying a 38 in your hand against a mean brown bear , even a moose would be like taking a 22, to an  elephant shoot.  

PS! Oh yea! I don't care much for the nanny state either ;D
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Offline myronman3

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Re: Troopers were a little too forceful
« Reply #53 on: May 14, 2010, 10:10:40 AM »
yup, but it would be just fine on wolves.  and after the teacher getting eaten up there, who is to say that isnt this womans concern?   
  funny, some of the same people that posted on here about that subject commented about the teacher going unarmed....hmmmmm. 

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Troopers were a little too forceful
« Reply #54 on: May 14, 2010, 10:14:38 AM »
Here in Va. open carry is in a holster , when it is in your hand in public it is brandshing a weapon and cause to have your weapon taken and you charged . What's the LAW up there ? not the custom .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline myronman3

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Re: Troopers were a little too forceful
« Reply #55 on: May 14, 2010, 11:19:00 AM »
that has already been discussed....and SHE BROKE NO LAW!!!!!   what is so hard to understand about that?????

Offline ironglow

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Re: Troopers were a little too forceful
« Reply #56 on: May 14, 2010, 12:23:54 PM »
Yup ! Here in te people's republik of NY, if somebody can see the butt end of a handgun you're carrying..that's "brandishing"..but that doesn't hold true everywhere.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Troopers were a little too forceful
« Reply #57 on: May 15, 2010, 03:05:02 AM »
Folks--you need to read all of ANY thread before posting---there is no need too convince others that you haven't read the thread by posting dumb statements that have already been covered.
SHE  DID  NOT  COMMIT  ANY  CRIME  OR  BREAK  ANY  STATUTE  OR  ORDNANCE.
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Troopers were a little too forceful
« Reply #58 on: May 15, 2010, 06:08:33 AM »
Again she did nothing wrong, the Troopers were in a bullying mood and were too aggressive.  Basicly what they said was "We don't care about the law, do as we say or we will run you in".
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Troopers were a little too forceful
« Reply #59 on: May 17, 2010, 02:59:20 AM »
OK !!!!!!!!!!!!
 but if I see someone with gun in hand comming my way  it would bother me enough to draw mine !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !