I need some help re: Richmond Howitzers

[subdjoe]

One of the people in our reenacting unit is having problems with the idea that tens of thousands of blacks put on the grey.  And especially with the idea that there was at least one artillery battery crewed by blacks.

I keep finding :

The "Richmond Howitzers" were partially manned by black militiamen. They saw action at 1st Manassas (or 1st Battle of Bull Run) where they operated battery no. 2. In addition two black "regiments", one free and one slave, participated in the battle on behalf of the South.

but no source for that.  Can any of the scholars here point me to a source for that claim, please?  Preferably something online that has images of some original documentation for it.  To me, that phrase "partilly manned by black militiamen" means that they were working the guns, not just cleaning up after the horses. 

[Ga.windbreak]

The only picture I've found so far, third from the left, is an original photo. When you blow it up the 5th guy from the far left, first gun, just may be the answer you seek.

I will continue to look, hope this helps.

http://www.richmondhowitzers.org/pb/wp_d30713e7/wp_d30713e7.html

[subdjoe]

That photo is, if I recall, a federal battery out of PA at drill.  If not PA, then NY.  A great photo though, as it shows various stages of loading and ready to fire, the positions of the limbers and caissons, and the huge number of horses needed for a battery.

What I'm trying to track down is the source of that bit I quoted.  For two years now, on and off, I have been engaged in a kind of tail chasing search.  I always keep getting the same tertiary source.  But, with that site, you have given me another place to look.  I'll use the "contact us" and ask them if they have an original source for that.  Thank you, GA.

Your ob't &ct

Joe

The only picture I've found so far, third from the left, is an original photo. When you blow it up the 5th guy from the far left, first gun, just may be the answer you seek.

I will continue to look, hope this helps.

http://www.richmondhowitzers.org/pb/wp_d30713e7/wp_d30713e7.html

[Ga.windbreak]

No problem and you might want to check this one also:

http://www.civilwarstory.nstemp.com/cgi-bin/i/common-weapons/petersburg-dictator.jpg

[subdjoe]

No problem and you might want to check this one also:

http://www.civilwarstory.nstemp.com/cgi-bin/i/common-weapons/petersburg-dictator.jpg

You do like those photos of federal ordnance, don't you? 

From the Pt. Lookout site I did get:

"Federal Official Records, Series 1, Volume 4, p.569 - Report of Colonel John W.
Phelps, First Vermont Infantry: "CAMP BUTLER, Newport News, Va., August 1 I, 186
I - SIR: Scouts from this post represent the enemy as having retired. they came
to New Market Bridge on Wednesday, and left the next day. They-the enemy-talked
of having 9,000 men. They were recalled by dispatches from Richmond. They had
twenty pieces of artillery, among which was the Richmond Howitzer Battery,
manned by negroes. . . Their numbers are probably overrated; but with regard to
their artillery, and its being manned in part by negroes, I think the report is
probably correct."

As well as in the records for that vacation paradise run by the federal government at least two Negros, privates from a NC battery, who were listed as gunners.  It could be that the report by Col. Phelps is the source for

The "Richmond Howitzers" were partially manned by black militiamen. They saw action at 1st Manassas (or 1st Battle of Bull Run) where they operated battery no. 2.

, but I'm not sure.

What is really funny is that the person who is doubting the number of blacks who fought for the CS because of lack of hard documentation is quite willing to look at the 1200 or so women known to have fought in the war, and extrapolate that there were thousands more.  I guess it is more 'correct' to say that women were able to fight in a war than to say that blacks "fought for slavery."

[Ga.windbreak]

Sorry about the photos, I was misled.  

What I truly find amazing is that for this war alone and only on the Southern side there is a concerted effort to misname those who were in the military and carried weapons yet were black and also did other jobs. Is an Army cook still not in the Army and expected to also fight? A southern slave who was a teamster is treated differently than a black solder who drove a truck in WWII? Where is the real/true difference? Only in the mind of those who continually want to bring up slavery as the only issue  rather than the many problems our two areas, of this country, had and still have today.

There is no way the South could have carried out this war for 4 long and hard years without the direct and willing help of the majority of the Blacks living here, be he slave or free. To say otherwise is not only naive but lacking in seeing the truth that is in front of one's eyes.

[subdjoe]

Sorry about the photos, I was misled. 

I'dathunk that the colour of the uniforms would have been a clue.
       

What I truly find amazing is that for this war alone and only on the Southern side there is a concerted effort to misname those who were in the military and carried weapons yet were black and also did other jobs. Is an Army cook still not in the Army and expected to also fight? A southern slave who was a teamster is treated differently than a black solder who drove a truck in WWII? Where is the real/true difference? Only in the mind of those who continually want to bring up slavery as the only issue  rather than the many problems our two areas, of this country, had and still have today.

There is no way the South could have carried out this war for 4 long and hard years without the direct and willing help of the majority of the Blacks living here, be he slave or free. To say otherwise is not only naive but lacking in seeing the truth that is in front of one's eyes.

When you read The Slave Narratives, and comments by white Southerners, the hard work, loyalty, steadfastness, and friendship of blacks, both free and slave, really stands out.  And especially how blacks cared for their former masters after slavery was abolished.  Not just continuing to work for them, but sharing what little food they had. 

[Ga.windbreak]

I'dathunk that the colour of the uniforms would have been a clue.    

One of those danged senior moments, can't see the forrest for the trees, I'm not colour blind, sort of deals!!!

Oh, well you got me.

[subdjoe]

Found it. It comes from the writing of one John Parker, former slave and conductor on the UGRR.

[SHOOTALL]

Were all African Americans in the South slaves ? Nope . Could a slave owner send his slave to fight in his place ? Would a free man of any color in the South not support states rights ? Or object to the South being forced to pay for the war of 1812 ? The war had been going for some time when abe freeded the slaves in the South . Who dug the trenches ? And of most importance where was a slave to go ? no job no wealfare .......... Bet the army looked as good then to a slave as it did to all the Irish who joined either side as the got off the boat.

[Ga.windbreak]

Found it. It comes from the writing of one John Parker, former slave and conductor on the UGRR.

You have my attention, what in heavens name does John Parker and the UnderGround RR have to do with proving Blacks served in the Richmond Howitzers? Trust me, I'm not questioning you, I just can't imagine the connection, please tell all.

[subdjoe]

Found it. It comes from the writing of one John Parker, former slave and conductor on the UGRR.

You have my attention, what in heavens name does John Parker and the UnderGround RR have to do with proving Blacks served in the Richmond Howitzers? Trust me, I'm not questioning you, I just can't imagine the connection, please tell all.

You got me on that.  Maybe he saw them in action somewhere. As some of the old Russian ladies at Church say about some things "Ezz Miss-trree!"

Here are some more quotes on blacks fighting for the South:  http://www.genealogyforum.com/gfaol/resource/Military/BlackConfederates.htm

[TrueConfederate]

Hello

My Great Grand Father and Great Uncle were members of the "First Company Richmond Howitzer"

In a book written by T.J. Macon, he mentions Black Ambulance drivers, unlike many companys the ambulance drivers stayed close to the action in the Howitzers.

I have yet to find mention of any Black Cannoners, in any of my ancestors letters home durring the war.

I do have newly aquired books on the howitzers and will update you with any information I find.

Be assured Black men served within the ranks of the Richmond Howitzers.

David Tatum.
Suffolk VA.

[subdjoe]

Thank you, Mr. Tatum.