Author Topic: my .22 wildcat cartridge (Read 6973 times)

poyo · « **on:** May 17, 2010, 02:11:43 PM »

Hi everyone, this is my second post and it is for showing you the wildcat cartridge i've designed (named .22AA).
It is a 9mmP case necked down to .22 with a 29º shoulder. Right now i'm testing some 51 grain bullets made of empty .22LR cases swaged with a corbin-like kit that my father made some time ago for his LaFrancotte .22 superjet rifle. I'm using 7,9 grains of Winchester 296 with a velocity of 2000FPS and no signs of overpressure yet... anyway i think that the bullet is too heavy, so i'm planning to make some 40-grainers and maybe getting 2400FPS out of them.

Tell me what you think!
Greetings.
Poyo

Spanky · « **Reply #1 on:** May 17, 2010, 05:14:05 PM »

The neck's kinda short.

Spanky

poyo · « **Reply #2 on:** May 17, 2010, 05:28:03 PM »

too much trimming, it is a little bit longer actually

jedman · « **Reply #3 on:** May 18, 2010, 03:49:31 AM »

Poyo,

Neat looking little cartridge ! What kind a gun are you shooting it in ? Was it a rimfire or centerfire before rechambering. How many steps does it take you to get the neck down to 22 cal.
Almost forgot , Welcome to GBO ! I have been waiting for a post like this for a while now, Wilcats such as the one you have made here interest me much more than the really big ones.
Good luck and post as many pics , we all like to see the process. Interesting that it is worth the time and labor to make your own swaged jacketed bullets. Jed

Silvertp · « **Reply #4 on:** May 21, 2010, 09:14:39 AM »

Poyo...

Interesting cartridge you are playing with. With all the 9mm brass out there and the economy of .22 cal bullets this should be a fun/inexpensive round to play with.

Im also interested in the test mule you are using. Keep us posted with your ballistics and accuracy findings.

Silvertp

poyo · « **Reply #5 on:** May 22, 2010, 03:37:47 PM »

Jedman, Silvertp: First there was a die to neck the case to 7,5mm but didn't came out as i planned (it came off center...i made the dies), i had to throw it away so it takes only 2 steps to get the neck to .22, the first one necks down to 6,20mm ID and the second to 5,65mm.

here you can see the 2 stages of forming the case, a homemade bullet and the case i modified to shoot airgun pellets with shotgun primers (760FPS!!)

i'm having too much variation between shoot to shoot velocity, i think i'll make a crimping die one of this days

Poyo

Silvertp · « **Reply #6 on:** May 23, 2010, 05:07:43 PM »

Nice, airgun pellets and a primer. I can see that you like to "tinker". Still interested in knowing about the firearm you are using. Perhaps a single shot pistol???

Silvertp

Bull45cal · « **Reply #7 on:** May 24, 2010, 05:56:33 AM »

Poyo,

Wonderful thought! Welcome to GBO, and good luck with your developement issues. I like the way you think. The shotgun primers, and Airgun pellets is a thought. I thought about airgun pellets infront of .22 blanks, but never been willing to try. What powders, primers, action type, and barrel length are you using in the fullbore rounds? If you can give more detail, maybe we can help you think through some of the issues.

Shane

poyo · « **Reply #8 on:** May 25, 2010, 11:08:36 AM »

Guys: right now i'm working on the stock and the action only needs the finishing, soon i'll be posting pictures of the complete rifle... hold on until then!

Poyo

Reed1911 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 25, 2010, 12:05:02 PM »

Looks like a short version my own work

My honest opinion, I think I would create a longer neck on it as the neck in the pictures sure does look short and may not hold the bullet enough. The idea is sound and economical in terms of convertible brass laying around. Be VERY VERY careful on the idea of signs of pressure, I'll not rewrite all the info, but suffice to say most of what has been written in the past 50 or so years on what is and is not a sign of pressure are all dead wrong.

None the less, I bet it has been a fun project and look forward to seeing your future posts. You sure learn a lot creating a new round.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #10 on:** May 25, 2010, 12:18:38 PM »

Saw it and thought Cool.
Then wondered what you are shooting it out of?
Was thinking it would be a neat round for one of the spanish Destroyer Carbines.
It was a bolt action carbine in 9 Largo and use the Astra 600 pistol Mag.
Taking what you did and using the longer 9X23 Case and sticking it in a Destroyer may be a neat idea.
Now all I need is a Destroyer to douplicate my 22 Hornet.
What would the 35 Grain Ballistic tips By hornady do out of your little case?

poyo · « **Reply #11 on:** May 26, 2010, 12:10:53 PM »

Reed1911: I LOVE the .22 Reed Express!! incredible ballistics! have you tried it on a rifle? i wonder which powder are you using...

(i guess is a "trade secret"

)Which powder do you think would be best? W296 or 2400?
What do you think about filling the whole case with red dot as a over-pressure round to test the action?
In your opinion, how much longer the neck should be? i still can modify the forming dies to make it longer. The .22 AA is the little cousin of your cartridge, any advice will be welcomed!

Mcwoodduck: Actually we had the same thought, the initial kick off was me seeing a Destroyer carbine and thinking "that would make a fun little 100m plinker!", but i couldn't get my hands on such carbine, so my next thought was "what if i make the action?" 2 years have gone since that initial thought and today the rifle is a reality, i only need to heat treat the bolt and do some external finishing.
I think a 35 grain bullet would come out at 2400/2500 fps! Turkish doves beware!

Poyo

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #12 on:** May 26, 2010, 01:01:20 PM »

Great minds think alike.
Show us a picture of the action.

Reed1911 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 27, 2010, 06:00:13 AM »

Quote

What do you think about filling the whole case with red dot as a over-pressure round to test the action?

No offense, but would be an incredibly dumb move. You have no idea what the pressure would be, and you have no way to ensure that you do not do permanent damage to the gun. Don't worry about proof testing the gun at this point, the only way to do it right is in a proper lab with proper testing equipment. Provided you are using an action that is suitable for it, you should have no problems.

I'd opt of at least a .200" to .250" neck. You want enough neck to hold the bullet securely and uniformly. Even in a single shot. If you don't you will begin to see erratic accuracy and velocity. If you put it into a repeater action it becomes more important as you will need enough neck to ensure the bullet does not move during recoil and during chambering. For general rule of thumb, if you can seat a bullet (in an empty case) and push it against your loading bench with a good amount of pressure and not move the bullet, that is enough tension.

W296/H110, AA#9, 2400, Enforcer will all be good powders for your case.

poyo · « **Reply #14 on:** May 27, 2010, 07:32:08 AM »

It's ok! i like to read advices from someone with experience!

I was thinking...what if i change the shoulder angle to gain some neck length? which would be the maximum shoulder angle?

Poyo

briannmilewis · « **Reply #15 on:** May 27, 2010, 08:17:48 AM »

Welcome, good luck and be careful.

I know it is a little off topic, but seeing you all brought it up...A 22 Hornet with a primer and no powder, with a 22 cal airgun pellet hand pressed into the mouth of the case flush with the end, and then factory crimp...fun little super quiet indoor round. Using it outdoors and a single shot H&R...can't tell if the pellet has left the building, the hammer fall is louder.

Brian

trotterlg · « **Reply #16 on:** May 27, 2010, 01:43:06 PM »

If you take the 22 Hornet case and stick it in the factory crimp die from the top and crimp the neck for a stop, you can then push a .22 pellet in and down to the crimp in the neck and it won't fall into the case. Works great. Larry

poyo · « **Reply #17 on:** July 05, 2010, 06:24:08 PM »

Fellows: Right now i'm working in the Mark 2 version of my wildcat. As many of you pointed out, the neck it's too short so i'm going to make another forming die to push back the shoulder (45º) to enlength the neck to 4 / 5 mm.
I'll post the results!
Poyo

Spanky · « **Reply #18 on:** July 10, 2010, 06:32:32 PM »

Keep up the good work and post pics of your progress.

Spanky

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 16, 2010, 03:44:57 AM »

What velocity are you getting with primer only there? This might be the first centerfire squirrel gun cartridge I've genuinely been interested in.....

poyo · « **Reply #20 on:** July 24, 2010, 06:33:19 PM »

With a 12 grain pellet i'm getting 450fps with small pistol primers and 760 fps using a modified case to accept shotgun primers

poyo

Reed1911 · « **Reply #21 on:** September 03, 2010, 11:10:02 AM »

How are you coming on this little guy?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #22 on:** September 03, 2010, 11:17:33 AM »

Nice idea , you ask for thoughts so my thought is why not a 38 super case ? you would have more length to get more mouth and bearing surface .
If I had the equipment i think a 10 mm necked down to say 22 or 25 would be interesting . Some of the new 25 auto bullets might do well .

poyo · « **Reply #23 on:** September 10, 2010, 02:12:00 PM »

I'm sad to announce that i'm still stuck waiting for the new barrel to arrive... so no progress yet...

I think some guys in the UK created the .22 boz necking down a 10 mm case to .22 ... the idea was to modify the MP5/10 to this new caliber and give it the hability to penetrate body armor...
Using 38 super cases would improve powder capacity, but i think that the big appeal of the .22AA is that parent brass is dirt cheap

Bull45cal · « **Reply #24 on:** September 18, 2010, 06:59:45 PM »

Quote

Using 38 super cases would improve powder capacity, but i think that the big appeal of the .22AA is that parent brass is dirt cheap

I'll second the dirt cheap. I really like this idea, and hope it works out. I'm very interested in the final product. I think it could be a replacement for Match Grade 22LR.

Bull45cal · « **Reply #25 on:** April 19, 2011, 10:06:37 AM »

Poyo,

Where are you at buddy? I'm thinking hard about your .22AA.

Shane

poyo · « **Reply #26 on:** July 16, 2011, 02:53:29 PM »

Hi Guys! i'm sorry i've been off the tracks for some time! my college exams are keeping me busy and away from the shop...

I couldn't make any other test because first i need to make a longer punch for the bullet swaging kit, and some case forming dies of intermediate size...
Again, sorry for the delay and thank all of you that sent me PM's asking how the project were going!
Poyo

Spanky · « **Reply #27 on:** July 19, 2011, 11:03:50 AM »

Quote from: poyo on July 16, 2011, 02:53:29 PM

Hi Guys! i'm sorry i've been off the tracks for some time! my college exams are keeping me busy and away from the shop...
I couldn't make any other test because first i need to make a longer punch for the bullet swaging kit, and some case forming dies of intermediate size...
Again, sorry for the delay and thank all of you that sent me PM's asking how the project were going!
Poyo

No need to be sorry. Your education is more important than this project.

Give us an update when you can get back to it.

Spanky

geezerbiker · « **Reply #28 on:** July 28, 2011, 11:00:58 PM »

I had the same idea a while back but never got to it. It sure looks like you're on the right track and I'm looking forward to following your progress.

Anyway you couldn't you use either a .38 super case or a 9x23 case to get a bit more neck on it?

When I was kicking around doing this, I was thinking it would be a great replacement for the aging .22 rim fire used in biathlon competition.

Tony

poyo · « **Reply #29 on:** August 12, 2011, 07:40:19 AM »

A little update!
Last weekend i was able to test some 40grs bullets with 8 grs of winchester 296 (there's room left for 2 grains more), obtaining 2100fps and 2350fps with 8 grs of 2400 (max load). I only had 3 cartridges for accuracy testing, obtaining a 2 moa group... i think there's plenty of room for improvement, and the group with shrink for sure

Actually i'm using small pistol primers, what do you think about using small rifle?
Hope this little update will quench your thirst for news!
Poyo