This happened to me TODAY!!!! Updated!!!!

[jpred1]

Ok ,I will try to keep this as short as possible. I printed out and called in to the airport concerning the regs for carrying a handgun on Delta.Done everything to the T. Carried gun home.All worked flawlessly. Flew back to the same airport 5 days later without my gun. Landed in Detroit and we sat at end of runway for 40 minutes for no apparent reason. Then we pull into terminal, but stop short by @ 50 feet. Then several vehicals surround plane, which was getting a lil scary,then TSA officials along with US Marshalls and Homeland Security started to board plane as soon as door opened. I thought OH crap someone is in bad trouble and there may be a bomb or something on this plane and we need to get off of it.Well Really quick I was surrounded by 7 and escorted off 1st.I mean roughly too. They started by saying where is the gun? I was dumfounded and ascked what have I done and told them I had no gun on me , near me or in any luggage and all my guns were at home. I was forced to the ground after a half strip search and was being treated as a uni bomber or something. I was held at gunpoint by 3 while 20 or more was running all around, other people were escorted away and finnanly I was allowed to get up and walk up to a enclosed area while being drilled.I answered everything they asked but was mostly just detained while they found out my lifes history, info about my family, job, my high school and even my parents and probably the last time I used the jon.They tore my luggage apart( not literary but searched and even had a dog sniff it.) About a hour and 20 minutes of the worst day of my life had passed, then all of a sudden they said Ok, our computers threw a red flag up because you left here with a gun and didnt check one back in on return trip.Hell Im not sure F15 fighters didnt escort us in on landing????Were sorry for the mistake and your free to leave.I was shaken up pretty well, hate too fly anyway and we had a rough landing .Thats the best explanation I could get and got evil looks as I probed for a better explanation or more of an apology of some sort. Even have a few bruises on my upper arms from the death grips they had on me.It was no JOKE what had just happened.I had 3 ?s for the home security in charge , 1st, did I do everything right last week when I transported gun , answer was yes all good. 2nd ? How could I have actually made it on a plane with a gun, no answer.3rd, Why would they assume I would be traveling back with said gun? Answer , most who carry a gun , will return with one. I stumbled away and said if I knew the regulations the 1st time ,I would have done the same on return trip.I was so tore up I couldnt hardly find the truck in the parking lot.Still havent eat hardly anything all day. What a terrible expierience.After Ive thought about it, I cannot believe it all, and I cannot believe if they honestly thought and I believe they did, have a gun on board the plane , how could they have ever let us takeoff.Input?

[Rock Home Isle]

I just am appalled...That is tragic and...OMG

[PowPow]

Was it because you are from Al a Bhama?

[jpred1]

Just wanna add a lil. At a few times during this ordeal, I truly feared for my life, I had 3 Barneys that appeared trigger happy and it appeared there only job was to to shoot me if I tried to get up. I feared if I had sneezed, boom.I held my hand way away from my body while on my face on the asphalt and asked if they would point them away from the back of my head ,just 2 feet or so , or at my hands, Hell anywhere in case of an accidental fire. Thank God they only made me stay down for 15 minutes or so while all the other passengers were unloaded. But they were all looking at me like a terrorist!!!! Those 45s look big when you stare at the wrong end. I was about to throw up.

[jpred1]

Was it because you are from Al a Bhama?

Thanks for the cheer up, but maybe I can laugh more later, now still shocked and kinda pissed, Well really dont know how I feel yet.I done nothing wrong at all.

[PowPow]

Would have freaked me out too.

I fly about once a year. Fortunately it was last week.
Went on a church mission trip a few years ago with a bunch of folks wearing the same Baptist Church shirt.
Mix of men and women, old and really old.  
One guy with us with hair too dark for his age got pulled from the line at "random" 3 straight times.

Given the choice, I'm driving.

I'm sure you barely got an apology from TSA. Did you get any consideration from Delta?

[jpred1]

Nothing. Have filed a formal complaint with Homeland security. But I believe in what they are trying to do, just needs lots of refinement.Actually TSA wasnt near as bad as Detroit Metro PD and all they regular  dressed packing Leos. I mean we must have someone watching out for us, but I feel like they done a crappy job by letting the plane leave the ground to start with.And even a crappier one when we landed. They said they were watching my entrance to the airport when I checked in earlier( 700 miles away), while I was detained.

[Graybeard]

I'd be expecting a visit now from BATFE to explain to them why a handgun was left out of state. Sure there are legal answers to the question but I'll be VERY surprised if you aren't questioned by them as to what happened to it to prove you left it legally.

No real excuse for what DHS did but then that's how they get their jollies I suppose. I'll NEVER EVER fly again unless I own my own plane and that ain't likely in this life.

[jpred1]

I have to fly every 2 weeks to go home for work, too far to drive it and get any time with family. I have real good answers for anyone too. I Drove up to Indiana to work and have been flying home, picked up 3 more jobs in Ohio,where my CCW is no good , so I figured Id just get my gun home where I can shoot it sometimes and not worrry about a hassle of any sort from OHIO PD.My truck may not see alabama until December.This economy sucks.No one even knows what type of gun I had, the check in counter didnt even get SN , name or make. Didnt even check to see if it was unloaded. I then placed it in a medium size suitcase and placed 3 zipties that a TSA guy gave me. Upon landing , all was as I left it.The DMPD asked if a sheriff went to my house could he verify the gun was there, I said yes, but I asked him which handgun would the sheriff need to see.Since Delta had no idea he couldnt answer. Of coarse this was right before I was let go, no smart remarks from me for a while, then not too many, just wanted to leave.It is really a mess on everyones part but mine.See, she told me that TSA only checked long guns and she could handle everything with a handgun( lady at the delta check in counter)The red tag was placed inside my bag and had siginiture, date and stated handgun enclosed. Thank goodness my record is clean as a whistle or I could be in jail like right now.

[PowPow]

Maybe your last post will satisfy the BATFE.
A buddy at work always jokes that being on this or similar forums gets you on BATFE  and other watchlists.

[gypsyman]

jpred1, if you get a Florida ccw, it recipricates here in Ohio.We use to have several organizations here in Ohio that would set up at gun shows. If you purchased a Florida ccw, it was good in states that didn't honor the Ohio ccw. Last I heard was that the Ohio ccw was good in many more states than what it use to be. gypsyman

[jpred1]

I can make it without it here, really bought the gun for working on the border in south Texas, should be here 10-12 weeks and finish year out way down there where the drug wars are going on. Want to be packing there for sure.I have a friend in Michigan where I could shoot anytime for pratice. I just wanna get away from this state.

[Mikey]

This one reason why I do not fly.  Airport security and delays are intolerable and have served little purpose.  When you look at the tsa you do not see experienced leos and well trained agents, you see the type of idiot who feels the muzzle of his pistol needs to be less than two feet from your skull in order to be effective and he can then go home and abuse himself while watching Roadhouse or something.

I'll tellya what:  the range I frequent most often has a few of those idjits around tryin' to hit something while they bang-arang around cop style and at distances of 10 yds they sometimes manage to put a couple into the target, and then they usually whoop it up like it was some sort of 22 derringer vs a AK-47 and the 22 won the shootout; next time I encounter a few of them I will insult them openly for you and say things to them that hurt their feelings and might make them cry, and I am pretty damn good at that, so take this seriouosly. 

Actually, the last time those idiots were on the range I had to tell them to stay behind the firing line - their response was that they were official and had to train for close quarters combat - my response was that if they stepped forward of the firing line while I was at the bench I would shoot them up the azz and then they would never see any cqc.  I think I put a damper on their enthusiasm, which I like to do and I also make them think a lot about armed citizens, especially those who can outshoot the best of them.  Don't worry, I will insult them mightily in your name.....

[myronman3]

mikey...you rock.   

jpred....talked to a lawyer?  after your experience i would have a good one on retainer. 
 this is an very good video and worth your time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik
  it is an attorney explaining the basics.  after this clip, there is another one called part two with a police officer giving his side of it.  it is some great information.

[jpred1]

TM7, you probably hit the nail on the head. I understand the threats and possibilities with all the HLS and all. I just have always been naïve enough to believe they really are on top of things a lot better. No. I expected a better apology , explaination or something a lil better than , Ok your free to go! Bye. I mean , am I now on some sort of watchlist in any aspects of my life??? I will always feel a lil wierd from now on when entering any airport. You know , kinda like a target on my back. I would just like a lil reassurance that its all a big mistake on their part and along as I abide by the laws I will be looked on as just any other Joe. No news crews , sorta wished they were,no one has contacted me about it at all. Makes me wonder how many others this happens to regularlly?

[beerbelly]

I like GB will no longer be flying. It was way to much hassle before 9-11. Now forget it! If I can't drive there I won't go.
                       Beerbelly

[jpred1]

I agree 100 per cent. Too bad my home isn't payed for and kids haven't finished college or I wouldn't step foot on a plane either. For me its a must unless I elect to spend @ 250 bucks to see family for a few hours and turn around and drive right back up here. I've thought about all this already.

[scootrd]

So did this make national news ?
I would have assumed with all the response from so many agencies , The media would have been all over it.
Never a reporter around when you need one..
also I bet $$ to Donuts once red flagged always red flagged , every time you fly their gonna pull you aside now.
Why cause some idiot didn't go back and update the database and remove the red flag against your
name.

Have you called media and told them what  happened?
Have you followed up with the airlines to ensure you wont come up on their database again?
 

[Hooker]

You handled the situation better than I would have.
I have had a gun in my face 3 times in my life it made me very angry every time.
There is only one reason to point a gun at anyone and those who do it other wise are idiots.
Rude and dangerous behavior because you wear a badge is never acceptable.  

Pat

[myronman3]

let me take a wild guess... you are a middle class white male?  yes? no?    everyone and anyone knows that us middle class white boys are the real enemy to the U.S.A.   

[jpred1]

So did this make national news ?
I would have assumed with all the response from so many agencies , The media would have been all over it.
Never a reporter around when you need one..
I would have thought that somehow the news would have got on to it too. But Nope. Im still watching and waiting , Id like to hear there story,how much of our tax bucks were wasted on thier mistake . Ive placed a call to TSA in airport I originated from and am awaiting a call back.I believe this is what we have to look forward to in our future. I cannot even do things the right way but illiegals can do whatever because it would be consitered profiling if they are harrassed.Also I usually get mad whenever I feel my rights are violated also, but they were having none of that, as far as everyone that spoke to me, it seemed I had no rights at all.Well while I was  posting, the Tsa  agent called me back and said I was clear and record free. He sorta explained what happened , he threw the blame on Delta , somehow on the  passenger list it said I was traveling with a handgun Monday,the flight attendant is the one who picked up on this but me not being listed as a LEO ( his exact phrase) threw Delta in a Panic mode, which then contacted TSA and evrybody else which in his words ,got the ball rolling.He did the research and had several details of the event and said under the circumstances and info given to TSA (from Delta)  while we were in flight they reacted properly .He did take time and answer all my ?s and seemed genuine in his apologys and understood what Id been through.Delta screwed me up, and now Im not sure I can even fly. He said I need to contact Delta and make sure all is cleared up. What some chit.

[jpred1]

Ok, Warning to all who may carry a firearm , especially a handgun on a commercial flight. What got me was I had a round trip ticket, when I checked the gun in on the departure , they Delta was supposed to ask if checked bag ( with handgun iside) would return. They didnt and I didnt know to tell them that I wasnt bringing it back( not in the specified rules and regs book.)So when I was returning the computer spit out that I was flying with a handgun, then further checking by Delta revielled I did not check one in . Being it was already assumed I would be bringing it back( same as a pet is what Delta rep. said)WTH ever. But anyway they assumed again that I had the gun either on person or in carry on luggage. and somehow made it through security with a firearm.So if you travel with gun , 1st either bring it back with you or only get a one way ticket. Do not get a round trip ticket and plan on only packing on departing , even if you tell them, computer could still make mistake along with human error on Airline.Tsa and Delta both says no records on anything.So if I need security clearance to work on a base or federal bld in the future I should be fine, if not, lawyer time.

[wreckhog]

I don't understand why gun owners are scared of LEO pointing guns at them. Not that big a deal. It is a piece of equipment. Nothing more.

[MGMorden]

I don't understand why gun owners are scared of LEO pointing guns at them. Not that big a deal. It is a piece of equipment. Nothing more.

Because you have two simple possibilities:

1. If they're a safe and competent gun user, then the golden rule comes into play: don't point the gun at anything you're not prepared to shoot. With that in mind, realize: they're willing and able to shoot you.

OR

2. They're incompetent.

Between having a loaded gun pointed at me that the user is perfectly willing to discharge, or an idiot pointing a loaded gun at me, I don't know which is worse.  Either way - loaded gun in your direction is NEVER a "Don't worry about it." moment.

[wreckhog]

I don't feel that the golden rule applies to on duty use by LEO. it is a piece of equipment that they use  for any number of reasons. Don't confuse LEO with civilian. They have different rules.

[beerbelly]

    wreckhog , have you ever had a leo point a gun at you? I have, One night I was surrounded by six or eight cars and at least a dozen cops. When they turned on the blue light I pulled over. They all piled out of the car with drawn guns, pointing at me.
   I placed both hands out the window so they could see them. I thought for sure they were going to blow my butt away! Believe me , it is very scary!
   They ordered me out of the car and searched me and my car, no they did not ask if they could search! With all those guns pointing at me, I did not make a fuss about it!
   They found nothing, so when I ask what happened ,did someone rob a bank? I was told to shut the F----up and get down the road. I did as I was told, have never had any use for those arrogant SOB's since!
                                          Beerbelly

[wreckhog]

    wreckhog , have you ever had a leo point a gun at you? I have, One night I was surrounded by six or eight cars and at least a dozen cops. When they turned on

I have had in no particular order, a video arcade clerk/off duty cop dealing with an obnoxious me, cops (wrong place, wrong time, thought I was someone else), stupid ex-friends, folks trying to intimidate/possibly rob me who were doing it because they thought that I was armed, folks who actually robbed me (3rd shift in a cash biz sucks), and probably others that I forget, point handguns at me. None actually shot at me. I have also been within a few feet of folks shooting at other folks. Now those I was scared of. And I was shot in the hand by someone else (on purpose.)

[oldrifter]

From time too time our leo come to our range for a change and when they do the regulars begin to thin out .  A large % of them have no idea what a gun is for.  and they think they have to act just like some show they have seen, and these have been through the acadmey .  I was in law enforcement at one time and I am glad I am not now , I could not put up with these jerks.  I am old and broke down but if I was treated the way some in here have described , the backup would have just cause.
oldrifter
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[jimster]

I don't understand why gun owners are scared of LEO pointing guns at them. Not that big a deal. It is a piece of equipment. Nothing more.

Don't like anyone pointing a gun at me, anymore than an LEO likes a gun owner pointing one at him. Works exactly the same way both ways...and the same catastrophy could happen.  If I am armed, have a half a chance, and am in the right, I will defend my gift of life if I am able to.  I expect the LEO would do the same.  If I am totally unarmed, have no chance to defend...it don't mean I'll feel better having a gun pointed at me cause someone has a badge.
 

[shvlhead.45]

I don't trust anyone pointing any kind of firearm at me.  Here is why I don't like LEOs pointing guns at me: http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474978242270