Author Topic: Loads for Single Shot and Bolt Action 30-30's? (Read 1873 times)

kevinsmith5 · « **on:** May 19, 2010, 04:36:44 PM »

Since the single shots don't have the problem of chain fire in a tube magazine round and flat nosed bullets are not required. Anybody have any loads they have worked up just for single shots and bolts in this caliber?

PowPow · « **Reply #1 on:** May 20, 2010, 02:05:32 AM »

I have tried a lot of different bullets, from cast to Berger VLDs, in my NEF 30-30. I concluded that boattails were wasted in a 30-30 because of the limitations of the 30-30, and settled in on 150 gr flat based spitzers. I use Sierra Pro Hunters because they do not have a cannelure, and I can make them as long as will fit in my gun, and they will still look pretty. Can't claim any improved performance, as everything I shot with them has been within 75 yds. I follow Hodgdon on-line data for max loads for a given bullet weight.

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #2 on:** May 20, 2010, 10:54:13 AM »

the fly in your ointment is that 30-30 bolt guns limit you to a very short COL because of magazine constraints

For example this is a 110g vmax loaded into a 30-30 rem 788 magazine

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 20, 2010, 05:40:19 PM »

I'm really looking for single shot loads, I really just threw in bolt guns because they aren't tube fed.

john keyes · « **Reply #4 on:** May 20, 2010, 05:59:28 PM »

not to sound like a broken record or anything, but..

(replied to the sound effect of a needle playing an old record)

the spitzers won't be driven fast enough to expand

whether that is actually true or not, I don't know. I still wouldn't want to be shot with it.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 20, 2010, 06:09:19 PM »

It looks to me like achieving a MV of 2500 fps with a 160 gr spitzer should be pretty reasonable (since that's what a 30-30 Hornady LE does out of my 22" barrel). Plenty of .308 160 gr spitzer loads list 2500 fps as a MV.

PowPow · « **Reply #6 on:** May 21, 2010, 02:24:45 AM »

Quote from: john keyes on May 20, 2010, 05:59:28 PM

the spitzers won't be driven fast enough to expand
...
whether that is actually true or not, I don't know. I still wouldn't want to be shot with it.

Heard the same thing. Fortunately I have never been on the receiving end either.
But to the folks who preach that to us, educate me:
How does the spitzer bullet know not to expand when it left a 30-30 from 200 yards away, but know to expand out of a 30-06 from 400 yards away, when its going the same speed with the same velocity and energy?
The only thing I can figure is that it has the same intelligence that the Thermos has to know whether to keep things hot or cold.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #7 on:** May 21, 2010, 03:42:19 AM »

I guess i dont see what a guy gains. A 3030 to me is a 200 yard gun. If I want to go out farther i pick a differnt gun. I use 3030 alot but use them in the woods where they belong. If really need I can stretch it out another 25 yards or so and do it all with rem corelocks. A bullet i know is going to expand when it gets there. You may get decent expansion out of a 150 grain bullet designed for a 308 or o6 at a 100 yards but i wouldnt bet on it at 200. Sure the 3030 can be stepped up a bit in a bolt gun or maybe even a marlin but even then your not shooting a 308 and its still about a 200 yard proposition and in all reality factory rem corelocks work fine at 200 yards. Another way to look at it is maybe a spitzer will give you a flat enough trajectory to add maybe 25 yards to the point blank range of your load. It will do it at the expense of possible not performing well. Why dont you do what a real rifleman does and go out and shoot your gun at differnt ranges and get to know your bullet drop and with some work youll know where to hold to put that corelock on an animal if that extra 25 yards is needed.

BBF · « **Reply #8 on:** May 21, 2010, 06:05:34 AM »

A phone call or e-mail to the "bulletsmith" will tell you what sort of impact velocity you need for a given weight animal.

PowPow · « **Reply #9 on:** May 21, 2010, 06:45:33 AM »

Bulletsmith, or the external ballistic calculator at
www.biggameinfo.com if you want to calculate it yourself.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 21, 2010, 11:47:11 AM »

Loyd might want to avoid things like the "real riflemen" comment, flame wars have started over less.

For the record my interest here is because I know I can get 250 yard performance out of a 30-30 LE, but with as much shooting as I do at the range (Loyd) that gets a bit pricey. Even if I buy Hornady components and load my own it is expensive. So what I'm looking for is a less expensive way to duplicate that performance in my reloads than the flexible tips that I don't even need.

PowPow · « **Reply #11 on:** May 21, 2010, 12:01:27 PM »

see the attachment for an example of the ballistic performance of a flat nose vs spitzer., using the ballistic calculator at biggameinfo.com.
looks like you get an extra 100 yds out of the spitzer bullet. based on Sierra BC's and 2400 muz vel.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #12 on:** May 21, 2010, 02:05:51 PM »

I dont much care if i get flamed ive got big shoulders and say what i believe. Now if you want some legitimate advice skip the 150 and up spitzers. The horndays work because they will still expand at low velocity something a bullet designed for a 3006 wont do. If you really want to make it shoot flat go to a 130 spitzer or better yet a 130 .30 designed for single shot pistols. Ive easily pushed 120 cast to 2600 fps in the 3030 so im guessing you could probably do it with the 130s if you slowly work up. I saw a couple weeks ago where midway had the 160 ballistic tip 3030 component bullets on sale. You might want to check and see if its still going. Still think a good 150 corelock would do what you want.

Quote from: kevinsmith5 on May 21, 2010, 11:47:11 AM

Loyd might want to avoid things like the "real riflemen" comment, flame wars have started over less.

For the record my interest here is because I know I can get 250 yard performance out of a 30-30 LE, but with as much shooting as I do at the range (Loyd) that gets a bit pricey. Even if I buy Hornady components and load my own it is expensive. So what I'm looking for is a less expensive way to duplicate that performance in my reloads than the flexible tips that I don't even need.

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #13 on:** May 21, 2010, 03:58:30 PM »

The one and only bullet the OP needs to be looking at for this application is the 125g Nosler ballistic tip.

When fired from a 308 or faster class cartridge inside 200yds or so this projectile has a well deserved reputation for being a little too explosive for deer sized game. But when fired from a 7.62x39 or 30/30 class chambering expansion is greatly delayed resulitng in sufficent penatration. Nosler avertises the minimum impact velocity for this bullet as 1600fps. Which if you'll run the numbers is out around 300yds from a 30/30

I've used this bullet to harvest deer with a 7.62x39 as far out as 275 yds with textboox terminal results.

Now don't poo poo the very real possibility of underexpansion if an ill suited bullet is used. In my beginning days of working with x39 I made this mistake and it cost me a couple lost animals before I switched to the nosler bullet.

Posted from my iPhone so don't nitpick my spelling.

wreckhog · « **Reply #14 on:** May 21, 2010, 07:34:39 PM »

Quote from: Lloyd Smale on May 21, 2010, 03:42:19 AM

I guess i dont see what a guy gains.

You can choose from a much wider variety of bullets to see what shoots good, you can buy premium bullets that simply are not made for tube mags, you can shoot weights other than 150/170, etc. The 30-30 is a reasonably popular pistol round. It has versatility.

Dezynco · « **Reply #15 on:** May 22, 2010, 02:23:23 AM »

Quote

The one and only bullet the OP needs to be looking at for this application is the 125g Nosler ballistic tip.

+1 on the Nosler Ballistic Tips. The 150 grainer's work well too. Use the ones with the green tips. Of course the Noslers are a bit too expensive for me to target practice with, so I save them for hunting. I just fire a few to adjust my scope when hunting season comes around.

In my opinion, the old 30-30 becomes all new and sparkly again with the addition of spire pointed bullets. No, there's no miracle gain in performance (other than accuracy, velocity, and trajectory)! Everyone should try the 30-30 in a single shot at least once in their life. I wouldn't worry too much about expansion with anything but some of the heaviest bullets that are available in 30 caliber (say 175 grain+)

Stape · « **Reply #16 on:** May 22, 2010, 02:46:10 AM »

I use the 30-30 a good bit in a contender, so I am limited in velocity. That said, I stick with the Hornady 130gr spitzers or the 125gr Nosler Ballistic tips. Their lighter construction allows for good expansion at lower speeds as opposed to fragmentation at higher velocities. I have done quite well out to 125yds with a super 14 driving these pills out at about 1,800fps. I have huge difference in drop from a round nose soft point (traditional 30-30 bullet)and a spitzer.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #17 on:** May 22, 2010, 04:03:14 AM »

krochus is that bullet 308 or 311? Ive been useing the 311 hornady vmax in my 762x39 ar but wouldnt mind trying that ballistic tip too. My ruger bolt prefers 308s but my ar likes them 311 or 312

Quote from: krochus on May 21, 2010, 03:58:30 PM

The one and only bullet the OP needs to be looking at for this application is the 125g Nosler ballistic tip.

When fired from a 308 or faster class cartridge inside 200yds or so this projectile has a well deserved reputation for being a little too explosive for deer sized game. But when fired from a 7.62x39 or 30/30 class chambering expansion is greatly delayed resulitng in sufficent penatration. Nosler avertises the minimum impact velocity for this bullet as 1600fps. Which if you'll run the numbers is out around 300yds from a 30/30

I've used this bullet to harvest deer with a 7.62x39 as far out as 275 yds with textboox terminal results.

Now don't poo poo the very real possibility of underexpansion if an ill suited bullet is used. In my beginning days of working with x39 I made this mistake and it cost me a couple lost animals before I switched to the nosler bullet.

Posted from my iPhone so don't nitpick my spelling.

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #18 on:** May 22, 2010, 06:56:03 AM »

Quote from: Lloyd Smale link=topic=207950.msg1099099028#msg1099099028 date=

krochus is that bullet 308 or 311? Ive been useing the 311 hornady vmax in my 762x39 ar but wouldnt mind trying that ballistic tip too. My ruger bolt prefers 308s but my ar likes them 311 or 312
Quote from: krochus link=topic=207950.msg1099098774#msg1099098774 date=
The one and only bullet the OP needs to be looking at for this application is the 125g Nosler ballistic tip.

When fired from a 308 or faster class cartridge inside 200yds or so this projectile has a well deserved reputation for being a little too explosive for deer sized game. But when fired from a 7.62x39 or 30/30 class chambering expansion is greatly delayed resulitng in sufficent penatration. Nosler avertises the minimum impact velocity for this bullet as 1600fps. Which if you'll run the numbers is out around 300yds from a 30/30

I've used this bullet to harvest deer with a 7.62x39 as far out as 275 yds with textboox terminal results.

Now don't poo poo the very real possibility of underexpansion if an ill suited bullet is used. In my beginning days of working with x39 I made this mistake and it cost me a couple lost animals before I switched to the nosler bullet.

Posted from my iPhone so don't nitpick my spelling.

.308" IIRC nosler doesn't make a .310/.311 projectile

Brithunter · « **Reply #19 on:** May 22, 2010, 01:36:24 PM »

Heck I use the Hornady 130 Grn SP loaded over H335 powder in Winchester brass for a velocity of around 2800 fps. Data taken from a Petersens Rifle shooter article back in 99 I think it was. My rifle is a bespoke bolt action and it does have magazine length issues

I wish they had mae it longe but the guy who ordered it specified 170 Gn Winchester ammo for some reason.

The 130 Grn SP Hornady has performed almost perfectly on all the Deer it has been used on so far and it's very accurate to. It will put three shots almost touching every time I do my bit right. I find the 30-30 cartridge to be very efficient

.

tony212 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 23, 2010, 03:46:19 AM »

I use Nosler 150 grain Ballistic Tips over 30.5 grains of IMR 30-31 and a Federal 210 primer. The Ballistic tips are designed to open at lower velocities and work great at 30-30 velocity at 150 yards and under. I load them for my 13 year old nephew who has an old H&R 158 in 30-30 and he has taken a couple of deer with them, expansion couldn't have been better.
Tony

HAMMERHEAD · « **Reply #21 on:** May 23, 2010, 12:17:27 PM »

My light plinker load is shooting very well in my Handi.
Magnus cast .309" 115 LRN over 6.5 grains Trail Boss seated within .020" of the lands (2.350" for my Handi). 1,200 fps, extreme spread 18 fps! Shoots 1" at 50 yards.
I was very surprised by the short throat in my Handi. Unfortunately my Winny 94 likes them much longer.

PawPaw · « **Reply #22 on:** May 24, 2010, 06:25:33 AM »

Quote from: Lloyd Smale on May 21, 2010, 03:42:19 AM

I guess i dont see what a guy gains.

We gain knowledge to a "what-if" question. I'm doing the same load development because I want to know what extra benefits might come to loading pointy bullets in a .30-30. Do I need to know these things? No, I've got plenty of .30 caliber rifles that work fine out to as far as I want to shoot.

Am I trying to stretch the .30-30 into a .308 Win? No, I've got a .308 that works just fine, thank you.

At the end of the exercise, I might conclude that nothing is gained, but I'll have solid measurable knowledge about all the quirks. In the meantime, I get to do some experimenting, burn some powder, scratch my head and wonder "what-if".

If A.O. Niedner hadn't wondered "What if", we wouldn't have the .25-06. If Warren Page hadn't wondered "what-if" we wouldn't have the .243 Win. In the meantime, we're not hurting anyone, not violating any laws, and basically just having a good time.

shot1 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 25, 2010, 03:03:52 AM »

As long as you keep your impact velocity 3000 fps or under and above 1200 fps or so the 125 Nosler ballistic tip is a real deer killer. I have killed 25 to 30 deer with this bullet in a 308 Win and 30X47 HBR rifles and I can't recall a single one that even took a step after receiving one in the front shoulder. You should be able to get 2500 fps easy in a 30-30 rifle. I will be using this bullet in my new 14" 30-30AI Contender pistol this coming deer season. I am getting over 2600 fps with ease from it.

mdi · « **Reply #24 on:** May 25, 2010, 06:46:30 AM »

Quote from: PawPaw on May 24, 2010, 06:25:33 AM

Quote from: Lloyd Smale on May 21, 2010, 03:42:19 AM
I guess i dont see what a guy gains.

We gain knowledge to a "what-if" question. I'm doing the same load development because I want to know what extra benefits might come to loading pointy bullets in a .30-30. Do I need to know these things? No, I've got plenty of .30 caliber rifles that work fine out to as far as I want to shoot.

Am I trying to stretch the .30-30 into a .308 Win? No, I've got a .308 that works just fine, thank you.

At the end of the exercise, I might conclude that nothing is gained, but I'll have solid measurable knowledge about all the quirks. In the meantime, I get to do some experimenting, burn some powder, scratch my head and wonder "what-if".

If A.O. Niedner hadn't wondered "What if", we wouldn't have the .25-06. If Warren Page hadn't wondered "what-if" we wouldn't have the .243 Win. In the meantime, we're not hurting anyone, not violating any laws, and basically just having a good time.

AMEN!!