280 Loading problem

[Stoner]

Been loading for a 280 and no matter what I try i cannot tighten up the goup.  I am using IMR 4350.  I have tried different seating depths and some XTR winchester powder.  Ussing CCI magnum primers and benchrest primers.  Shooting nosler 150 graing ballistic tips.  Question should I change bullets or try diff powder.  Thinking of trying Reloader 22.  But also considering a heavier bullet such as the 160 gr accubond or go down to 140 gr.  Any help would be great. 

[jedman]

   You didnt specify what kind of rifle you are shooting, bolt action or other ?
I would suspect it might be in the bedding, just one other thing,   I have seen people try and sight in rifles with the barrel resting on the front rest or they take there hand and touch the barrel at some point while trying to hold it steady.
    Not tryin to preach here but a rifle will never shoot with consistency if the barrel touches anything...
and the way it contacts the stock or forend has a lot of potential problems also.
   Good luck , things such as a crooked chamber to bore or oversize bore, or bad crown are much more rare.
                             Jedman

[Stoner]

Thanks.  I am shooting a 28in stainless encore barrel.  I am shooting off of a lead sled.

[Grumulkin]

1.  What kind of groups are you getting?

2.  Have you started your loads low and worked up powder charges incrementally?

3.  What reloading manual are you using?

[Stoner]

Group is a triangle that measures an inch and half at 100 yards.

I have gone up in .5 increments.  and changed seating depths, but not at the same time.  Always find a seating depth that shoots pretty good and then adjust the powder charges to tighten the group.  Just not having much luck with this one

Using the nosler loading manual.  Think it is 2 years old

[Grumulkin]

If you look at your Nosler manual you'll find that the "most accurate" powder for 140 and 160 gr. bullets was RL-19.  It seems strange to me that IMR 4350 should then be the most accurate powder for 150 gr. bullets.  What I would do:

1.  Use only the benchrest primers (BR-2 I presume) until I found a good load and then perhaps experiment with the CCI 250 primers.

2.  Try RL-19.

3.  If RL-19 doesn't work out with the 150 gr. ballistic tips, I would try RL-19 with the 140 gr. Accubonds; my second bullet choice would be the 160 gr. Accubonds.

[High Brass]

Might try H-4831SC

[Stoner]

Bought some 140gr accu bonds but decided to try one more time with the 150 gr bt with Rl-22.  That seemed to do the trick.  3 shot group measured .393 at 100 yds.  Now I got some 140 gr accu bonds for sale.   

[DANNY-L]

Why not try the standard large rifle primers instead. My opininion 4350 should do the trick.

[Autorim]

I don't have a .280, but RL22 works best in my .270. IMR 4350 is my favorite in the 7mm-08.

[Lloyd Smale]

i  picked up a 280 win featherweight and just wrapped up load developement for now for it. I used h4831 4831sc imr 4350 re19 re22 and ramshot big game. I used cci standard rifle and ww standard rifle primers. bullets were 140 ballistic tips, 140 rem corelocks, 140 flat based sierras, 140 hornady interlocks and 145 speer hot cores. The two hands down best powder were 4831sc and ramshot big game. Primers varied to much load to load to call one a certain winner. Bullets, best were the 145 speer followed by the 140 sierra. Best load out of the bunch was a 3/4 inch 5 shot group (varified 3 times) with the 145 speer using 4831sc and a cci primer. Now the problem with all of this is thats my gun and yours may be totaly differnt. I know i did own a #1 ruger in 280 years back and its favorite load also used a 145 speer. One of the rare times when i find anything but a sierra for top accuracy in a gun.

[Masterblaster1]

My favorite powder for the .280 is IMR 4831 my secret recipe uses a 175 grain Hornady interlock, cci standard large rifle primers and remington cases, and a mediocre dose of 4831. at 100 yard I can get groups around a half inch. Gun is an NEF single shot.

[Brithunter]

   You didnt specify what kind of rifle you are shooting, bolt action or other ?
I would suspect it might be in the bedding, just one other thing,   I have seen people try and sight in rifles with the barrel resting on the front rest or they take there hand and touch the barrel at some point while trying to hold it steady.
    Not tryin to preach here but a rifle will never shoot with consistency if the barrel touches anything...
and the way it contacts the stock or forend has a lot of potential problems also.
   Good luck , things such as a crooked chamber to bore or oversize bore, or bad crown are much more rare.
                             Jedman

Oh what a load of Bull 

Not tryin to preach here but a rifle will never shoot with consistency if the barrel touches anything...

Did you actually thing about what you wrote? The barrel HAS to touch the reciever for a start so it's impossible for a barrel not to touch something  . Also a properly inletted stock with 6he bedding in good order will not effect group size. If the barrel is properly inleted into the stock barrel channel. Only a couple of my rifles have the much vaunted free floated barrels and the most accurate rifles I own have properly inleted and bedded barrels. They touch the stock and put the bullets in close little groups.

As I see it free floatign is a cheap way for manufacturers to make rifles. less amn hours required and cheaper stock materials can be used. Bugger all to do with performance .............................. Oh before you go mentioning Bench rest rifles  they are a different ball game. I don't see why they don't just bolt them to a concrete stanchion and have done with it  .

[jedman]

  Brithunter,

  Maybe I didnt explain that well, but you mis understood my meaning of not touching anything.
What I mean is when you are shooting a rifle from say a bench, dont rest the barrel on the sandbag or rifle rest and when hunting dont hold the barrel up against a tree or let the barrel rest on anything.
 As far as free floated or bedded rifle stocks go i am not commenting on that , A break action single shot rifle such as the T C Encore, H & R Handi or others do have a affect as to pressure points from the forend contact to the barrel. When I spoke of not touching the barrel with your hand while shooting I stand by that, the barrel must vibrate in the same manner as when the rifle / load was sighted in.     Jed

[Idaho_Elk_Huntr]

Im using RL22 and it shoots everything I have fed it so far. It is also a factory 280 Pro Hunter barrel

[Brithunter]

  Brithunter,

  Maybe I didnt explain that well, but you mis understood my meaning of not touching anything.
What I mean is when you are shooting a rifle from say a bench, dont rest the barrel on the sandbag or rifle rest and when hunting dont hold the barrel up against a tree or let the barrel rest on anything.
 As far as free floated or bedded rifle stocks go i am not commenting on that , A break action single shot rifle such as the T C Encore, H & R Handi or others do have a affect as to pressure points from the forend contact to the barrel. When I spoke of not touching the barrel with your hand while shooting I stand by that, the barrel must vibrate in the same manner as when the rifle / load was sighted in.     Jed

Jed, I didn't misunderstand  but someone else perhaps newer to shooting might have. I cannot comment on the Handis or Encores never having anyhting to do with them but that Baikal MH18 I just sold didn't seem to mind and the forestock was slimmed down so that the fingers of the left could close right round and touch the barrel if you wished.

Sighting in should really be done with the same hold that your going to shoot with then you should get consistancy. That's why some bench resters only pinch the trigger between the blade and the rear of the guard and don't have their had actually holding the stock at all. Plus if the barrel is bedded correctly it will vibrate the same every time  . have you by chance read Whelans book "The Hunting Rifle" ? If not may I suggest you do as it's not only and interesting read but it has a wealth of infomration in it written by a man who lived with his rifles and had hands in building and servicing as well as developing them.

[Mckie Hollow]

Have had good luck with RL19 and 140 gr. Sierra's. Never worried too much about seating depth, for a hunting rifle. I just go by what the manuals say.

[necchi]

I cannot comment on the Handis or Encores never having anyhting to do with them

Well, there ya go.

 I side with jedman here. What he's said makes sence too me. Bench shooting and sigting for hunting are two different things. Each require a different hold, even on the bench.
 But in no way should the barrel forward of the forearm make contact with any form of support for maximum accuracy. I don't want to begin too explain barrel harmonics here, there are volumes writin on the subject.  In a hunting situation will this occure? Perhaps, yet kill zones on game are generally larger than 1" at 100 yards that many seek while loading for and sighting at the range.
 I can speak of the Handi specifically, I have 2 that have the forearm bedded at the frame near the chamber, and the remainder "floated" with minimal contact at the lug. This gives me sub MOA accuracy if I do my part.
 The Encore actually has a small "button" area on the forward forearm to make a "pressure point" contact on the barrel. This works for some, but others have ground/filed that button off and found better groups. I have a Handi 308 that is giving me fit's,, and I'm going to try a foreward pressure to see if I can bring that thing in.
 The break action singles DO have issues all there own, much different than bolt guns. But ya still need to let the barrel do it's thing, un-supported by outside elements, in that micro second of bullet travel. 

[Brithunter]

Hmmm so let me get this straight  you sight in the sights/scope using bags and bench rest techniques and expect it to shoot the same in the field?  . using a different hold or rest?  I use a old coin bag lined with a plastic carrier bag and filled with clean sand rested on top of an old ammo tin and lay the forestock on that just as I would using my day pack when stalking.

A few rifles I do use a Bi-Pod with but they must also shoo to the POI when not using the Bi-Pod. We also use a single stalking sticks or a pair of sticks to make a bi-pod when stalking. They are also useful for dragging a carcase  . I use the same techniques with all my rifles be they bolt action tipping block (Martini) of break action and I expect them to perfom in similar fashion.

 The Contenders and handis look ruddy awful to me, I don't like the die cast look  , but I realise there are those who do like them.

The fact remains that a properly fitted stock of decent quality stable and cured wood produces reliable and repeatable results as the barrel will react to it the same each time assuming the loads are the same. It seems to me what your describing with the handi and it's stock/barrel bedding is the result of poor design  .

[necchi]

Hmmm so let me get this straight  you sight in the sights/scope using bags and bench rest techniques and expect it to shoot the same in the field?  . using a different hold or rest?

No, I didn't say that, with all respect, your only reading what you want.

I use the same techniques with all my rifles be they bolt action tipping block (Martini) of break action and I expect them to perfom in similar fashion.

It is your option to limit yourself to a single technique.

The Contenders and handis look ruddy awful to me, I don't like the die cast look 

You don't have to own one.

  It seems to me what your describing with the handi and it's stock/barrel bedding is the result of poor design  .

 It's actually a timeless design, but they'er cheap. It's a $200 gun. Many find great satisfaction taking an inexpensive gun like this, doing their OWN work too it and having sucessfull results. There are owners of over 2,200 complete Handis rifles on this forum alone. Anyone can purchase a $1200 or > gun and shoot, but what's the challange to that ?
 History have proven that there are a bunch of ragtag hicks an hillbillies on this side of the pond that shoot quite well with gun's "of poor design". And if you don't have one, and limit yourself to just one technique of shooting, How can you offer assistance to an issue you know nothing about?

[Brithunter]

  Barrels and bedding work the same way.

Anyone can purchase a $1200 or > gun and shoot, but what's the challange to that ?

Oh how I wish it could be so. I have a couple of rifles awaiting collection once my licence comes back with the open slots to take them. One is a .270 Win chambered BSA Majestic Featherweight and it's costing $112.50 US including the P-H alloy scope rings  the other is a Parker-Hale 1200TX single shot target rifle in 7.62x51 with it's target aperture sights and that one is costing a wee bit more at $120 US. This one has the extra scope base on the barrel to use a long target scope like the Unertal or Lyman target spot scopes. Once i get my mitts on them and can check them carefully I will most likely be able to date them. The BSA is from the late 50's to early 60's at a guess from the serial number and these have cut rifled barrels that were then lapped and yes it's a std production rifle .................................. quality mattered then  . The 1200TX I have not idea until I find the Private View mark and look it up the barrels on the later P-H rifles were hammer forged.

Meanwhile I am glad the the OP got some find precision out of his rifle.