Author Topic: Location?? (Read 2560 times)

Blaster · « **on:** May 25, 2010, 06:38:49 AM »

Anyone know where this memorial is located??
I'm away from home ready to start some cancer treatment tomorrow (Wed 5/26) and failed to bring the darn required empty powder can along for scale. (Sorry about that Douglas, I'll do better next time) Also did not bring a tape measure along to get and vital statistics of these cannon. Maybe next time. Can't wait to get back home and get my black powder burners fired up once again. Thanks for looking.

thelionspaw · « **Reply #1 on:** May 25, 2010, 08:13:19 AM »

Good luck kid. Everything will work-out fine.

Rich

Cannoneer · « **Reply #2 on:** May 25, 2010, 08:16:38 AM »

Civil War Monument Park: Located on Route 164, one block south on Schuyler Street in Oquawka, IL. The monument was dedicated on July 4, 1887 by the citizens of Henderson County to remember their 200 soldiers killed in the Civil War.

So, I see you're back in the ole stomping grounds. I wish you the best of luck with your treatment, Bob; get well!

Blaster · « **Reply #3 on:** May 25, 2010, 08:44:04 AM »

thelionspaw and Boom J - thanks.
Boom J answered with the correct locations of the Memorial. Oquawka, IL is located right on the East bank of the Mighty Mississippi River, on the very far West portion of the State of Illinois.....

Double D · « **Reply #4 on:** May 25, 2010, 09:35:22 AM »

Bob,

Glad to hear from you! Good luck with the treatments.

Great pictures! Neat cannons, what are they!

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #5 on:** May 25, 2010, 04:40:00 PM »

Mike and I send you the very best wishes for your health, Bob. Thanks for posting these nice photos. If Boom J. weren't so darned fast maybe we could have given that loc. a shot! You didn't ask, but we will go out on a limb here and say, after studying the tube's profile, that these three seem to resemble most closely those guns called Iron 6 pdr. Field Guns Model of 1834. However, we don't think these guns were cast for the Army. We believe that these are very well cast replicas that closely resemble the early iron 6 pdrs. The rear sight base screwed to the back of the breech is a very authentic touch, we believe. If anyone has proof to the contrary we would love to see it.

Tracy and Mike

RocklockI · « **Reply #6 on:** May 25, 2010, 07:02:52 PM »

Hi Bob Get Better Soon . after Tracys post I looked at them and the top cannon looks to have a parting line running along the top .

Gary

Double D · « **Reply #7 on:** May 25, 2010, 07:40:37 PM »

..and a front sight.

Is that a parting line or line of metal line?

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #8 on:** May 26, 2010, 01:47:56 AM »

Bob -

Just ONE thing to say about "C" -

GET OVER IT!

Keep us posted!

Stuffy25thIA · « **Reply #9 on:** May 28, 2010, 03:02:53 AM »

Glad to hear from you Blaster, has been awhile, still have that mortar you want.
Drop me a line when you get home, always glad to hear from you.
Take care, live long.

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #10 on:** June 01, 2010, 12:09:24 PM »

Wait a minute here, let's not be too hasty; we are not finished with this thread yet. I just can't believe that with all the talented people we have on this board, that no one can give us a definitive answer to allay our concern over the replica-nature of the cannons used on this Illinois, Civil War monument. After all, there certainly were plenty of real artillery pieces available back in 1887! Please see the blue highlighted text below:

Quote from: seacoastartillery on May 25, 2010, 04:40:00 PM

Mike and I send you the very best wishes for your health, Bob. Thanks for posting these nice photos. If Boom J. weren't so darned fast maybe we could have given that loc. a shot! You didn't ask, but we will go out on a limb here and say, after studying the tube's profile, that these three seem to resemble most closely those guns called Iron 6 pdr. Field Guns Model of 1834. However, we don't think these guns were cast for the Army. We believe that these are very well cast replicas that closely resemble the early iron 6 pdrs. The rear sight base screwed to the back of the breech is a very authentic touch, we believe. If anyone has proof to the contrary we would love to see it.

Tracy and Mike

So, which member or visitor out there has a fairly recent copy of the National Registry of Surviving Civil War Artillery now maintained by Jim Bender. If you do have one of these lists, could you tell us if it has three authentic Civil War guns listed for the small town of Oquawka, Illinois? If these are listed, then we will admit to being wrong about our concerns for the authenticity of these tubes. We were more concerned than ever when Gary Lorenz pointed out a most noticeable parting line on the top of one pictured tube. 'Line of Metal', markings were, in all cases we are aware of, denoted by scribe marks on the Breech Ring and the apex of the highest Muzzle molding. We have never seen a continuous one along the top dead center of a tube, any tube.

A little help. Anyone?

Mike and Tracy

Cannoneer · « **Reply #11 on:** June 01, 2010, 11:38:15 PM »

Tracy,

The reason I haven't made a post is because I don't know if they're original guns. On the new 'Registry' if a piece is privately owned there is no city or state given, and also no description such as cemetery, monument, etc., so we would need the markings to verify if those cannon are real 6-pdr iron guns, Pattern of 1834. There is no location given for these type guns in Oquawka, IL, but there are three in a row listed as 'privately owned', which may be the guns seen at this monument.

On the Robinson's Battery website a photo is shown of a "6-pounder iron field gun, Model of 1834." Scroll down to the first photo of a 12-PDR shown, "12-pounder iron field gun, heavy, early unknown pattern." I think that this is a photograph of one of the Oquawka Civil War Monument guns (note the description of some having rimbases and some not). Now there could be a mistake on this site, the photos could be switched, or perhaps the descriptions are in error; I don't know the answer, but on my Registry there are only two "12-pdr iron field gun, heavy, experimental" listings, and both are supposedly part of a Civil War Monument located in Adrian, MI.

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #12 on:** June 02, 2010, 08:18:02 PM »

Thank you very much, Boom J. You have furthered our research quite a bit here. I really like the first heavy 12 pounder you pointed out. I think your supposition that the gun pictured may be located on that monument has a good chance of being correct. The cast iron mount appears to be very similar. The granite pedestal appears to be the correct size and the gun positioned in a very similar orientation, the lack of rimbases for some of the guns of that type and also the vent field depression forward of the vent, itself, appears to be the same in both photos.

We agree that a study of these gun's marking are the next step in identifying these cannon and a few measurements , of course. If anyone lives within 100 miles of Oquawka, Illinois, ( 100 miles?? The guys on the East Coast are horrified; the ones out West are saying, "Yea, I can make a lunch run over to Oquawka and be back in time to let the dogs out), send us an email and we will send you a list of dims. and photos to take for a positive I.D.

Thanks again Boom J, we knew you would find something significant.

Tracy and Mike

Blaster · « **Reply #13 on:** June 03, 2010, 03:58:37 PM »

T&M, I have a brother who has a weekend getaway type property down in Oquawka, less than a mile from the monument and if you tell me EXACTLY what you'd like in measurements and exactly what YOU want photographed, I'm pretty sure I can twist his arm to get that info. Gotta keep in mind that he is not into cannon/mortar or BP shooting of any type so you will have to give the exact details of precisely what you are looking for on these four cannon. His little place is located about 25 yards from the Mighty Mississippi (no, he has not been flooded lately). He does live in the City of Chicago (ugh) and I'll see when he expects to be down in Oquawka again.
Also, if you think it'd be worth the effort, perhaps the Brother can check with some of the Oquawka "Town Fathers" to see what they can add to the little we know about these cannon. Let me know.

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #14 on:** June 04, 2010, 08:26:44 AM »

You may not realize it, Bob, but there are lots of people out here pulling for you. You have brought nothing but good things to this board and very interesting and unusual ones at that. Lots of folks are reluctant to post anything when it comes to health issues. They are afraid of saying the wrong thing, so for all of them we say simply, get well gradually and surely and enjoy life's little pleasures when you can.

About the cannon I.D.s; we don't think it's really fair to ask someone who is basically unfamiliar with ordnance to do a rather extensive survey of 4 pieces to the extent that is really necessary. Each piece requires six very careful measurements and 7 minimum, carefully oriented, photos for a sure I.D. This work proceeds more than twice as fast if you have an assistant who also knows what he or she is doing. If you are by yourself, it can get really tricky as a few tape holding fixtures have to be made before you can do much at all.

Rather than burden some one with this task, we will add it to our October itinerary when we will be delivering a Brooke rifle to the midwest and one to just south of West Point, New York. It's really too bad we will have to miss the NRV Shoot this year, but the budget is very tight and one trip in October is going to be it for 2010.

Best regards,

Tracy and Mike

Blaster · « **Reply #15 on:** June 08, 2010, 04:30:36 AM »

T&M, many thanks for those very kind words. They REALLY are greatly appreciated.
Insofar as measurements of those four tubes are concerned, please let me know exactly which measurements are needed as I go back to my old home town (West Point, Iowa) a couple times each year and that particular little old town of West Point is only about forty miles from Oquawka, IL.... I'd be more than happy to make that short drive and get whatever measurements are needed to help identify those cannon. Just let me know at your convenience.

Finally, now a word to the wise is sufficient --- All you gents 40 years of age and older, make dang sure you get a regular blood test WITH PSA test with EACH of your yearly physicals. Those tests ARE extremely important for us "mature" guys!! Don't force me to say, "I told you" a few years from now.

Blaster (Bob in beautiful Trinidad, CO)

Double D · « **Reply #16 on:** February 01, 2011, 12:50:54 PM »

Quote from: seacoastartillery on June 04, 2010, 08:26:44 AM

You may not realize it, Bob, but there are lots of people out here pulling for you. You have brought nothing but good things to this board and very interesting and unusual ones at that. Lots of folks are reluctant to post anything when it comes to health issues. They are afraid of saying the wrong thing, so for all of them we say simply, get well gradually and surely and enjoy life's little pleasures when you can.

About the cannon I.D.s; we don't think it's really fair to ask someone who is basically unfamiliar with ordnance to do a rather extensive survey of 4 pieces to the extent that is really necessary. Each piece requires six very careful measurements and 7 minimum, carefully oriented, photos for a sure I.D. This work proceeds more than twice as fast if you have an assistant who also knows what he or she is doing. If you are by yourself, it can get really tricky as a few tape holding fixtures have to be made before you can do much at all.

Rather than burden some one with this task, we will add it to our October itinerary when we will be delivering a Brooke rifle to the midwest and one to just south of West Point, New York. It's really too bad we will have to miss the NRV Shoot this year, but the budget is very tight and one trip in October is going to be it for 2010.

Best regards,

Tracy and Mike

I will be nearby these Cannons in April...it would make a nice day trip.

Tell me what measurements are required.....

Blaster · « **Reply #17 on:** February 01, 2011, 02:03:47 PM »

Hey Double D, if you are going to be near the cannons that I had started this thread with, better watch for high water. The park where these tubes rest is about four or five blocks East of the mighty Mississippi river and with all the snow and really nasty weather we (and those folks in the Midwest) are experiencing right now/today, these guns might just get rather wet from flooding. That river is huge and collects a lot of water on it's way down for up North. We may be back in that area in April or May so be sure to let us know your travel plans for that particular area as we may be able to make a face-to-face meet down there. I'll bring my empty BP powder can along to place right next to you for scale.

Oh yeah, health wise, I'm still doing very well and should be around above the sod for at least a few more years since I'm going to be 75 later this year. When I do finally kick the old bucket, many years from now, I have already made arrangements to have my ashes fired out of one of my BP cannons and the person pulling the lanyard cord gets to keep that particular cannon.

Double D · « **Reply #18 on:** February 01, 2011, 02:11:03 PM »

Quote from: Blaster on February 01, 2011, 02:03:47 PM

Oh yeah, health wise, I'm still doing very well and should be around above the sod for at least a few more years since I'm going to be 75 later this year. When I do finally kick the old bucket, many years from now, I have already made arrangements to have my ashes fired out of one of my BP cannons and the person pulling the lanyard cord gets to keep that particular cannon.

I'll do it, I'll do it!! Do I get to pick the cannon? Oh yeah, glad to here you are doing well.

lance · « **Reply #19 on:** February 01, 2011, 02:49:24 PM »

Blaster,glad to hear you are doing well.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #20 on:** February 01, 2011, 03:18:54 PM »

Quote from: Blaster on February 01, 2011, 02:03:47 PM

...
and the person pulling the lanyard cord gets to keep that particular cannon.

Generous, but that might add INCENTIVE for someone to do you in!

Keep vertical! Good to hear from you again.

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #21 on:** February 01, 2011, 08:15:34 PM »

Blaster Bob, We are really glad to hear you are feeling better. Mike and I certainly wish the very best for Lance and anyone else who may be battling cancer.

Double D. wrote:
I will be nearby these Cannons in April...it would make a nice day trip.
Tell me what measurements are required.....

Double D., As for the dimensions that should be checked to make a positive I.D. on any cannon, we have listed a bunch that will make a positive I.D. possible. You could get by with less, but you should never approach this task as a lark or casual experience. By being serious, you will save time and have dimensions you can believe in.

With a flexible, flat steel tape you should measure the bore dia. by placing the tape in the bore, two inches back from the muzzle, in a single coil, trying to keep the coil in a plane which is perpendicular to the bore axis. With the entire circle of tape pressed against the bore, ignor the end of the tape and read across the two inch mark to see what number aligns with that mark. Jot that reading into a small notebook you bought for this purpose and then subtract two inches. THAT is the bore dia. Measure the largest dia. of the muzzle swell, the diameters at which the chase taper is smallest and largest, the smallest and largest diameters of the second reinforce, the dia. of the first reinforce and the dia. of the breech ring. The rimbase dia and the trunnion dia. are two to add.

With a conventional, concave, steel tape measure the tube length. This includes only the distance from the muzzle face to the back edge of the breech ring. OAL is nice if you can manage the cascable length which is a bear. The other linear dimensions you need are the distance from the axis of the trunnions to the back edge of breech ring and the rimbase face to rimbase face dim. and the length of the trunnions.

Photos are easier and should include a muzzle face shot which is square to the bore axis, a top view which details the muzzle mouldings and astragal/fillets of the chase. A top view of the trunnion area, square to the trunnion axis and as parallel to the top of the tube’s second reinforce as you can manage. A top view of the cascable and breech ring area including the vent is essential. A side view of these last two areas is essential as well. A rear view is good to have, especially if any markings are present. Separate views of each marking or cluster of markings is very, very important. Look under the tube if possible, especially in the breech area for small markings. An over-all side view is good to have too. A quarter should appear in all photos, square to the lens axis. A small dab of modeling clay will stick the coin temporarily to almost any location on the cannon. It is used for dimensional scale, of course.

A copy of an original drawing for comparison is also needed. We have very few drawings of field artillery tubes. Maybe someone else has one of the 1836, iron, field artillery tube.

Tracy and Mike

Double D · « **Reply #22 on:** April 21, 2011, 01:07:11 PM »

Here is a photo dump of the cannons at Oquawka. I do not think theses cannon are replica...I think they are the real deal. They appear to be 6 PDRs.

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #23 on:** April 22, 2011, 07:08:31 AM »

I think you may be right, Douglas. Who would bother with a slanted vent on a replica? Maybe 'line-of-metal' grooves on the base ring and the tip of the tulip, but a Slanted Vent? Maybe these cannon are authentic after all. I wish we could have visited the site with you, but talking with you as you moved among them was pretty interesting. Mike and I are encouraged after talking with you and seeing your pics. Oquaka is now on our list of places to visit on the next cross-country trip.

Blaster Bob, did you see DD's pictures? Please respond.

Tracy and Mike

Double D · « **Reply #24 on:** April 22, 2011, 09:26:19 AM »

Quote from: seacoastartillery on April 22, 2011, 07:08:31 AM

I think you may be right, Douglas. Who would bother with a slanted vent on a replica? Maybe 'line-of-metal' grooves on the base ring and the tip of the tulip, but a Slanted Vent? Maybe these cannon are authentic after all. I wish we could have visited the site with you, but talking with you as you moved among them was pretty interesting. Mike and I are encouraged after talking with you and seeing your pics. Oquaka is now on our list of places to visit on the next cross-country trip.

Blaster Bob, did you see DD's pictures? Please respond.

Tracy and Mike

He has not been on line since February...

KABAR2 · « **Reply #25 on:** April 22, 2011, 11:11:46 AM »

Blaster Bob lives in Trinidad Co. I have to check I think I have his email address,

if I do I'll drop him a line and see how he's doing.

GGaskill · « **Reply #26 on:** April 22, 2011, 12:22:28 PM »

Those rimbases appear suspect to me, as if they were made after the fact and sort of welded on.

Double D · « **Reply #27 on:** April 22, 2011, 12:25:12 PM »

Quote from: GGaskill on April 22, 2011, 12:22:28 PM

Those rimbases appear suspect to me, as if they were made after the fact and sort of welded on.

There is indeed on that one gun something going on with the rimbases.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #28 on:** April 22, 2011, 10:07:41 PM »

Douglas,
You said that they appeared to be 6-pounders; what are the diameters of the bores?
Are all four cast iron guns identical other than rimbases and sights?
Is that convex square shape on all the gun's trunnion faces?
Were there any marks (numbers, letters) anywhere on any of the cannon?

Double D · « **Reply #29 on:** April 23, 2011, 04:04:32 AM »

Quote from: Cannoneer on April 22, 2011, 10:07:41 PM

Douglas,
You said that they appeared to be 6-pounders; what are the diameters of the bores?
Are all four cast iron guns identical other than rimbases and sights?
Is that convex square shape on all the gun's trunnion faces?
Were there any marks (numbers, letters) anywhere on any of the cannon?

Well there use to be a tape measure in the truck...measurement was based on my hand over the muzzle and comparing that to how my hand fits my own 6 PDR.

All all four are identical cast guns, The bores as far as I could see are in excellent shape. That convex square, or is it a diamond?, is the only mark found on any of them and is found only on one. It is a clue to there origin, I believe. There is just to much small detail and precision work for these to be replicas.