Primer question.

[DalesCarpentry]

I now have H-380 CCI large rifle primers and 200 50 grain V-Max bullets. I am just about ready to start loading for my 22-250. I just have to send off for a Lee Challenger press kit. I may just buy a Lee loader for now. My question about the primers is does it matter what brand of primers you use as long as they are large rifle? I ask this because on the bottle of powder from Hodgdon it says use Winchester primers and I bought CCI primers so does it matter? Also it looks like the load is going to be 41 grains of H-380. Do any of you know how many grains are in a pound of powder? I am trying to figure how much it is going to cost me to load per bullet. so far in consumables I have spent $8.00 for 200 primers, 29.99 for powder and $40.00 for 200 bullets. That is a total of about $78.00 spent to load 200 rounds. Take care Dale 

[Siskiyou]

7000 grains = a pound @ 41.0 grains =173 rounds

My books show this load exceeding maximum.

[DalesCarpentry]

The Hodgdon basic manual says 41 grains. Now it does not state weather that is a max or min load. I have a Hornady book on it's way as we speak and that should clear it up. Can someone out there look in there Hornady book and tell me what the load is for a 50 grain Molly coated V-Max bullet using H-380 for the 22-250? Thanks Dale

[Bigeasy]

I did some looking, and there seems to be a wide variety of recommended max loads using H380 and a 50 grain bullet.  They ranged from 37 grains to 41.2, all from reliable published sources.  I use 38.5 with a Sierra 55 grain in my 22-250 with superior accuracy.  I guess its a good example of start low, and work up.  When you start to experience hard bolt lift, or flattened / cratered primers, back off a grain or so.  My Rem 700 laminated Varmint model shoots a little under 1/2 at 100 yards with the load noted above, and really makes these PA woodchucks sit up and take notice.  Primers look good, bolt lift is easy, and case life is good neck sizing only.  Never experimented much with this rifle as I was happy with this load right from the start.  I use Federal Primers.

Larry

[Siskiyou]

My Hornady 7th addition does not show a 50-grain bullet using H-380.

The Sierra Edition V shows a maximum of 39.9 grains with four different Sierra 50 grain bullets.

The Speer 12th Edition show a maximum of 42.0C grains of H-380 with their Spitz-SP.

http://www.hodgdon.com/basic-manual-inquiry.html

My old Hodgdon # 25 maxs out at 38.0 with H380.

Current

         
50 GR. SIE SP Hodgdon H380 .224" 2.350" 38.0    3562 41,700 CUP        41.0    3742    45,300 CUP          
52 GR. HDY A-MAX    Hodgdon    H380    .224"    2.350"    38.0    3509    41,900 CUP    41.0    3717    46,600 CUP

Good advice from Bigeasy; start low and work up, and enjoy!          

[Sweetwater]

Your question on primers has gone unanswered. The short answer is yes, no, maybe - primers can make a difference, or no difference at all. I don't notice any difference in my guns with my loads. I also don't shoot tiny groups at 1000 yards. Everything is relative. You will notice that you manuals state "do not change components". Meaning, if they use xyz primer and you use mno primer, or different brass or a different bullet of the same weight, you will not get their results and you could create a pressure problem. Not to worry. Lots of variables will create a pressure problem. You should not be looking for their results. You want your results. You want what your rifle can do with your handloads in your hands. Period. Like the other posters, start on the low end and work up slowly being very attentive to what is happening. Your rifle will tell you what is going on - listen to it.

[necchi]

The Hodgdon basic manual says 41 grains. Now it does not state weather that is a max or min load.

CAREFULL !

 The Hodgdons basic manual lists ONLY MAX charges,,on the bottom of every page it say's NEVER Exceed
that is the same as Max charge..starting loads are generally 10% under max

 And they list the 50grn Seirra Soft Point,, not the Hornady V-max. All 50grn bullets are NOT the SAME, I know those soft points have a different ogive than the Vmax

 41 grns of H380 is 100% capacity of the 22-250 case

Just a word of caution friend, the same given too me by members here, it's best to stick with ALL the info listed in a manual and not mix an match. Good luck, stay safe

An No it don't make a differance what primer Manufacturer you use, AS LONG AS, you use the right primer. If it say's to use large Rifle, use Large Rifle NOT Large Rifle Magnum.
Read what it say's not what you want it to say,,and DO start low and DO watch for pressure signs.

[Doug B.]

I very seldom shoot anywhere near maximum with one exception....my .243 Remington BDL. It is the ONLY firearm I own that likes a "hot" load with next to zero signs of pressure. My other firearms have been near max pressure only when researching my loads and I've found most of my firearms group better under, sometimes well under max. I save powder, barrels, shoulders, and bodily parts! I'm not "packin'" max velocity charges....I am after the best accuracy in all my firearms. Some may think I'm nuts, but I don't own a chrony and likely won't. I have considered it but have no use for it at this time.   

I don't want to mess around with possible destruction/injury, and I don't care to subject those I load for (very few) to the same.

[Lloyd Smale]

I you stickly go by loading manuals and you sure should you should have no pressure problems switching from one standard rifle primer to another. Now if you switch to mag primers it could make a differnce. If you talking switching primers and how it effects accuracy thats a differnt answer. Ive found switching primers can make just as big of a differnce as switching bullets or powders.

[DalesCarpentry]

I am asking these questions because I want to be safe. I am waiting to hear back from Hornady reguarding this. I am thinking it is best to start low probably around 38 or 38.5 grains of H-380 and work up from there. I am aslo looking for the best accuracy I can get out of my Remington 700 even if that means a light load. Another reason I do not want to shoot max loads or near max loads is I don't want to shoot my barrel out in a couple thousand rounds. Thanks Dale

[shot1]

To answer your question on which primer to use. The reason that Winchester primers are stated is because they are on what I would call the hot side for regular primers. It takes a hotter primer to light ball powders under curtain conditions, mainly cooler weather or when large amounts are used. Many manuals call for the use of mag primers when using ball powders. I would go ahead and use the CCI 200 primer and start at 38.5 grs H380 with the 50 gr pill loaded 10 thousands off the lands. To make you a way of finding the proper over all length, take a full length sized case and cut a line from the mouth of the case down the neck to the shoulder. Clean up the burrs and run it back through your FL size die. Place the bullet you want to use in to the neck just enough to hold it in place with your fingers. Ease this case into your chamber and close the bolt. Ease the bolt open and carefully remove the case. When the bullet hits the lands it will push it back into the case. Measure this over all length. This is your to the lands measurement. Seat the bullet 10 thousands deeper into the case to get an over all length 10 thousands off the lands.  Load 3 rounds of each. 38.5, 39, 39.5 and 40 grs to start with. I would shoot these for group at 100 yards and inspect carefully for signs of pressure on the case and primer. If I saw no signs of pressure and thought I wanted more velocity or to see if a better group could be shot I would then load three rounds of 40.5 grs and 41 grs to see what happens. If I experienced a miss fire or a hang fire with any of the loads I would go to a Large Rifle Mag primer and start all over again. From the above loads I would take the loads that shot the best groups and load 5 of each and try them again. Then I would pick the best of that lot and load 10 and shoot two 5 shot groups waiting a good while for the barrel to cool between groups. Then I would play with seating depth of the bullet a little to see if my accuracy increases. Seat it a little closer and a little farther away from the lands. I have found that most rifles will shoot pretty good with the bullet 10 thousands off the lands. Many rifles shoot better with a case that has been shot and reloaded even if you full length size the case. I usually only part size a case by adjusting the size die to not touch the shoulder of the case or only just bump it a little if the bolt closes a little stiff on it. ALWAYS FULL LENGTH SIZE BRAND NEW CASES BEFORE USE. Many of them have too tight necks and you will crush a case or bulge the shoulder out so it will not chamber when trying to seat a bullet. I would get me about 3 or 4 boxes of the same factory  NON-MOLLY ammo and shoot the rifle some to get used to it and preliminarily sight in the scope and break in the bore before doing load development. For the first 10 rounds I would shoot one shot then clean the bore with a copper solvent between each shot. Then shoot 5 shots and clean then shoot 5 more shots and clean. Then I would clean between each 10 shots twice. Then I would clean after every 20 shots. This will slick up any tool marks in the barrel and help with cleaning the bore latter in it's life. Some times it takes between 50 and 100 rounds for a rifle to settle down and start shooting accurately. Always do your group shooting on a fouled barrel. Shoot a couple shots to foul the barrel before shooting for groups.  These are just some experiences from the school of been there and done that and got the T-shirt of over 30 years of precision handloading. Have fun.  

[DalesCarpentry]

To answer your question on which primer to use. The reason that Winchester primers are stated is because they are on what I would call the hot side for regular primers. It takes a hotter primer to light ball powders under curtain conditions, mainly cooler weather or when large amounts are used. Many manuals call for the use of mag primers when using ball powders. I would go ahead and use the CCI 200 primer and start at 38.5 grs H380 with the 50 gr pill loaded 10 thousands off the lands. To make you a way of finding the proper over all length, take a full length sized case and cut a line from the mouth of the case down the neck to the shoulder. Clean up the burrs and run it back through your FL size die. Place the bullet you want to use in to the neck just enough to hold it in place with your fingers. Ease this case into your chamber and close the bolt. Ease the bolt open and carefully remove the case. When the bullet hits the lands it will push it back into the case. Measure this over all length. This is your to the lands measurement. Seat the bullet 10 thousands deeper into the case to get an over all length 10 thousands off the lands.  Load 3 rounds of each. 38.5, 39, 39.5 and 40 grs to start with. I would shoot these for group at 100 yards and inspect carefully for signs of pressure on the case and primer. If I saw no signs of pressure and thought I wanted more velocity or to see if a better group could be shot I would then load three rounds of 40.5 grs and 41 grs to see what happens. If I experienced a miss fire or a hang fire with any of the loads I would go to a Large Rifle Mag primer and start all over again. From the above loads I would take the loads that shot the best groups and load 5 of each and try them again. Then I would pick the best of that lot and load 10 and shoot two 5 shot groups waiting a good while for the barrel to cool between groups. Then I would play with seating depth of the bullet a little to see if my accuracy increases. Seat it a little closer and a little farther away from the lands. I have found that most rifles will shoot pretty good with the bullet 10 thousands off the lands. Many rifles shoot better with a case that has been shot and reloaded even if you full length size the case. I usually only part size a case by adjusting the size die to not touch the shoulder of the case or only just bump it a little if the bolt closes a little stiff on it. ALWAYS FULL LENGTH SIZE BRAND NEW CASES BEFORE USE. Many of them have too tight necks and you will crush a case or bulge the shoulder out so it will not chamber when trying to seat a bullet. I would get me about 3 or 4 boxes of the same factory  NON-MOLLY ammo and shoot the rifle some to get used to it and preliminarily sight in the scope and break in the bore before doing load development. For the first 10 rounds I would shoot one shot then clean the bore with a copper solvent between each shot. Then shoot 5 shots and clean then shoot 5 more shots and clean. Then I would clean between each 10 shots twice. Then I would clean after every 20 shots. This will slick up any tool marks in the barrel and help with cleaning the bore latter in it's life. Some times it takes between 50 and 100 rounds for a rifle to settle down and start shooting accurately. Always do your group shooting on a fouled barrel. Shoot a couple shots to foul the barrel before shooting for groups.  These are just some experiences from the school of been there and done that and got the T-shirt of over 30 years of precision handloading. Have fun.  

Thank you very much for your helpfull information. I just come in from one of the farms I hunt Groundhogs at. I just popped one at about 250 with my 22-250 using what I have left of my Winchester 45 GR JHP'S. It was a heart shot and went through and through. He was dead right there. I am on my way to the range with my neighbor in a few minutes and I have a box of the Hornady 50 GR V-Max that I am going to sight my rifle in with. This way it will be close when I try my reloads. I also want to see how they group. This is a new rifle and I have 116 rounds down the tube so far and with the Winchester ammo it was grouping at about 3/4" at 100 yards. I finally got the trigger weight down and last week I polished the bore with Flitz. I am willing to bet I shoot 1/2" or less groups today out of my 22-250. Thanks and take care Dale

[skarke]

It has been my experience that primers are basically interchangeable using middle range loads; however, changing anything regarding loads (including weather extremes) should be approached carefully when the loads are at their polar ends (max or min).

For me, when shooting high accuracy loads, I've noticed variability in primer consistency lot to lot (some produce bigger groups than others of the same brand).

When I was shooting avidly bench type guns, I'd buy BR primers, and I liked CCI the best.

So, IMHO, if you shoot mid range loads, you can safely substitute primers without problem. Select your primers based upon performance 100 at a time until you find a lot that performs, then buy 5k in that lot.

If you are shooting hot loads, back off and work your way up again if you change anything (including large swings in ambient temp)

[Dixie Dude]

The best reloading manual in my opinion is the Lyman manual.  They list various powders with max and min loads and various bullets.  For instance if it lists a 150 grain Hornady bullet with xx grains of x powder.  You will probably be ok with the same load with a 150 grain Sierra bullet.  The bullet weight and the grains of powder are the most critical.  I have not found any difference in primers, EXCEPT magnum primers where a standard primer is called for.  If you have magnum primers, you need to start with the lowest load called for.

[Huffmanite]

Not to confuse Dale, but if you check loads in Speer's #13 manual for 22-250 (and other calibers) with H380 powder, you'll see Speer uses Magnum primers instead of standard.  Speer manual shows for their 50 grain spitzer bullet, start load of 38gr, max 42 gr of H380 with CCI Magnum primer.  Personally, I've reloaded several different cartridges (no 22-250) with H380 and standard CCI primers and don't recall any problem with ignition of H380, which is reason for Speer's use of magnum primer. 

[Sweetwater]

According to something Alan Jones  wrote; Speer went to magnum primers on loads that shot erratically with standard primers (ie. wide pressure variance) If magnum primers tamed the pressure swings, they published the data. If not, that powder was not included in the manual with that cartridge.

[DalesCarpentry]

To make you a way of finding the proper over all length, take a full length sized case and cut a line from the mouth of the case down the neck to the shoulder. Clean up the burrs and run it back through your FL size die. Place the bullet you want to use in to the neck just enough to hold it in place with your fingers. Ease this case into your chamber and close the bolt. Ease the bolt open and carefully remove the case. When the bullet hits the lands it will push it back into the case. Measure this over all length. This is your to the lands measurement. Seat the bullet 10 thousands deeper into the case to get an over all length 10 thousands off the lands.

I am new at this but I have to ask will this work with out making the cut in the case neck? It seems it would and it would hold the bullet much tighter. When you close the bolt it would force the bullet into the shell like you said. You may need a pair of pliers to remove the bullet though. Thanks Dale

[necchi]

Nope, the case may hold the bullet too tight and "jam" the bullet into the lands giving a false reading as it apply's to "contact" the lands.
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums//index.php/topic,112672.msg1098350243.html

An O.A.L. gauge is a good tool to invest in here's a link to one at Cabelas,,you can read the full reviews,,

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp;jsessionid=5SMR033KZND4HLAQBBJCCO3MCAEFGIWE?id=0044519216354a&type=product&cmCat=froogle&cm_ven=data_feed&cm_cat=froogle&cm_pla=1230191&cm_ite=0044519216354a&_requestid=129603

[DalesCarpentry]

Good to know thank you. Dale

[Sweetwater]

Nope, the case may hold the bullet too tight and "jam" the bullet into the lands giving a false reading as it apply's to "contact" the lands.
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums//index.php/topic,112672.msg1098350243.html

An O.A.L. gauge is a good tool to invest in here's a link to one at Cabelas,,you can read the full reviews,,

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp;jsessionid=5SMR033KZND4HLAQBBJCCO3MCAEFGIWE?id=0044519216354a&type=product&cmCat=froogle&cm_ven=data_feed&cm_cat=froogle&cm_pla=1230191&cm_ite=0044519216354a&_requestid=129603

+1  ALSO note that if you try the seating test without relieving the caseneck, the bullet can stick in the barrel when you remove the case - then you'll need a ramrod to get the bullet out. This is a problem I don't have as I seat the bullet to feed and usually the magazine will limit me before the throat does. Where the throat does limit, I simply seat the bullet to where it feeds without jamming the rifling. I know not real scientific, but 53 years has proven "for my purposes" it's very adequate. I'm looking for accuracy and "don't have a need to know" if I'm 2 thousands or 10 thousands off the lands. Doesn't really matter. What matters is it's seated to feed properly and is at best accuracy within pressure limits.

An alternative to the above is place a bullet in an "unsized case" and gently close the bolt and gently remove the case. The bullet should come with it and you have your "contact length" and don't ruin a case in the process.

[Dixie Dude]

Something to think about:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0032406215925a&type=product&cmCat=SEARCH_all&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&Ntt=Lee+hand+loader&Ntk=Product_liberal&sort=all&Go.y=9&N=0&Nty=1&hasJS=true&_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1&Go.x=12&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.form1

You can get this Lee Hand Press Reloading kit and all you have to buy are dies, bullets, power, primer, and brass.  I read about someone who bought one of these, got .44 Mag dies, 100 brass, 1,000 primers, 1# of powder, a few lbs of lead, a bullet mold, and a cast iron lead dipper all in a 50 caliber ammo can.  Portable.  I think he was set up to be able to reload cast bullets, and could reload the brass 10 times for 1,000 rounds.  Something to think about in a SHTF situation.  He had a .44 mag pistol and rifle, and used shotshells also.  He had determined the .44 mag was the best SHTF cartridge for rifle and pistol as well as reloading for.  He however did live in Montana. 

[PowPow]

...You can get this Lee Hand Press Reloading kit...  

Had one.
It killed my hands to use it.
Only way I could use it was to put one end in a vise and use two hands on the other end.
I did not mourn the day it broke.
For portable, I prefer Lee Classic Loader to this.

[Dixie Dude]

PowPow, what cartridge were you reloading for.  It may be that pistol calibers, or straight walled calibers, might be easier.  Even with my press, the smaller sizes are easier to press.  Good to know that, I've thought of buying one.

[PowPow]

Used it for 30-30 and 22-250.
But you have a point about short straight-walled, never tried them.
Too bad I had to buy it to find out.

[Dixie Dude]

I have a Lyman turrent press.  The pistol bullets, straight walled are much easier to pull the lever for.  Large necked cartridges are much harder.

[omcforever]

52 grain HP speer #1035 in a rem case with CCI small rifle primer with 38 grains of H380=superb!!!!!!

[revbc]

I am asking these questions because I want to be safe. I am waiting to hear back from Hornady reguarding this. I am thinking it is best to start low probably around 38 or 38.5 grains of H-380 and work up from there. I am aslo looking for the best accuracy I can get out of my Remington 700 even if that means a light load. Another reason I do not want to shoot max loads or near max loads is I don't want to shoot my barrel out in a couple thousand rounds. Thanks Dale

Dale remember if 41 grs is the max load a safe thing is to start 10% lower which would be 41 - 4.1 = 36.9, then work up.