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Offline jschance

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Spanish Steel
« on: November 24, 2003, 01:36:58 AM »
I just picked up one of those Star "Modelo" pistols (I couldn't ignore the price) and am wondering if anyone else here has any experience with them.  

The one I've got is chambered for the 9mm Largo and will chamber .38 Super brass based loads without any problems.  I'm trying to work up a decent load right now.  My first attempt was using 124 grain 'gold dot' hollow point bullets and Universal Clays powder using loading data for 9mm Largo.   the first batch turned out hotter than I wanted, so after only fireing one, the other 4 got pulled and the next batch will have a lighter powder charge.

Anyone know of a good source of 'defensive' ammo in 9mm Largo?
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Offline Mikey

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9mm defensive ammo
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2003, 04:30:57 AM »
jschance - it does not exist (that I know of).  Years ago I owned one of those Stars, and loved it.  I also had a Llama as well as one of those big ol Astra 400s, all of them in 9mm/38 caliber.  Loved 'em all. The only 9mm Largo ammo I know of being produced today is by CCI with the aluminum case and a 124 gn jacketed bullet.  

As for something other than ball ammo, if your Star feeds and chambers the 38 Super then you can use that caliber.  If you prefer to roll your own, I would use 9x23 brass, which is supposed to be the same length as the 9mm Largo, and use 38 Super loads.  If you can still find it, you can also shoot the 9x23, which is what the 38 Super can be loaded to.  However, if you are going to shoot that Star with hotter loads I would stoke it with a set of heavy duty Wolfe Springs in the 20 - 22 lb range.  HTH.  Mikey.
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Offline NRAJOE

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Spanish Steel
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2003, 05:15:02 AM »
I've been wanting to get one of those pistols myself...got any pics?  8)
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Offline jschance

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Spanish Steel
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2003, 08:35:14 AM »
Mine feeds the .38 super brass just fine, and I happen to have about a bazillion pieces of the stuff laying around from when I used to play IPSC, so that'll be what I'll use, simply because I don't want to buy anything if I don't have to.

I'm working on a load for the defensive ammo.  I would much prefer to use factory stuff for liability reasons, but if it's not available, what choice do I have?

No pictures so far, but I'll see what I can do.
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Offline wiley

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38 Super
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2003, 05:53:21 AM »
is not a good choice for older Star/Astra pistols. Some were modified for 38 auto(dimensionally the same as 38 Super) and some will chamber it without modification. A look in Cartridges of The World at 38 auto/38 Super and 9mm Largo will show the difference.
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wiley

Offline jschance

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Spanish Steel
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2003, 05:19:17 AM »
Wiley,

If your response was in reference to using .38 Super brass for reloading ammo for my Star, I would like to know your opinions as to why it is a bad idea (other than the standard "never use anything other than the labeled...".  

I've done some preliminary testing using the .38 Super brass.  I resized the brass prior to loading and used a chamber gauge (Dillon, .38 Super) on all loaded ammo prior to firing.  After firing, I've ran the brass through the same gauge.  Other than one round that turned out hotter than I was intending,  they all fit the chamber gauge.
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Offline wiley

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Brass
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2003, 06:59:55 AM »
I'm not opposed to using the brass, just against loading to 38 Super levels. 38 Super and 38 ACP are semi rimmed cases, with a rim diameter of .405". 9mm Largo is also known as 9mm Bayard and has a rim of .392". Some Stars and Astras were modified to the larger rim diameter and stamped: 38 Auto, so they could be used with that load>not 38 Super loads.
Starline does make 38 Largo brass with the correct headstamp.
HTH, Wiley
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wiley

Offline jschance

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Spanish Steel
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2003, 01:23:15 AM »
Wiley,

Then it sounds like we're in agreement.  If you notice my first posting on this subject, I'm using 9mm Largo loading data and using the .38 Super brass.  The one load that came out too hot was the result of me trying to same time and I started near the top of the 9mm Largo data instead of the bottom and working up, like I normally do.  So far I've worked with 140 grain lead round nose, 124 grain fmj and 124 grain hollow points.  Haven't settled on any loads at this time.
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Offline wiley

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I was
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2003, 07:25:24 AM »
reacting to the second note:

"As for something other than ball ammo, if your Star feeds and chambers the 38 Super then you can use that caliber"

I'd say again that that's not a good idea for anyone that reads it.
Something worth noting in the second post was the reference to Wolff. Most of the older semi autos that I have seem to have real tired springs. Wolff makes fresh springs that would work well for your project of high end 9mm Largo defensive loads. You may be able to get them to provide a hammer mainspring, as well as the the mainspring that they do offer.
www.gunsprings.com
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wiley

Offline wiley

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I was
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2003, 07:30:27 AM »
reacting to the second note:
"As for something other than ball ammo, if your Star feeds and chambers the 38 Super then you can use that caliber"
I'd say again that that's not a good idea for anyone that reads it.
Something worth noting in the second post was the reference to Wolff. Most of the older semi autos that I have seem to have real tired springs. Wolff makes fresh springs that would work well for your project of high end 9mm Largo defensive loads. You may be able to get them to provide a hammer mainspring, as well as the the mainspring that they do offer.
www.gunsprings.com
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wiley

Offline wiley

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I was
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2003, 07:32:48 AM »
reacting to the second note:
"As for something other than ball ammo, if your Star feeds and chambers the 38 Super then you can use that caliber"
I'd say again that that's not a good idea for anyone that reads it.
Something worth noting in the second post was the reference to Wolff. Most of the older semi autos that I have seem to have real tired springs. Wolff makes fresh springs that would work well for your project of high end 9mm Largo defensive loads. You may be able to get them to provide a hammer mainspring, as well as the the recoil spring that they do offer.
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wiley

Offline wiley

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Yes, but
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2003, 07:36:30 AM »
I was reacting to the second post, which did advocate 38S. It also referenced wolff recoil springs. These would be most useful to your project to develop 9mm Largo defensive loads. www.gunsprings.com
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wiley

Offline wiley

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Apologies!!
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2003, 05:29:23 AM »
for the dupes. The message box keeps falsing me??
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wiley

Offline jschance

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Spanish Steel
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2003, 04:17:00 AM »
Wiley,

I would agree that it's not a good idea to blindly use .38 Super in a 9mm Largo pistol.  The data I'm using states that it's OK for both .38 Auto and 9mm Largo loadings, so I feel I'm in a 'comfort zone' in regards to safety.

As I said, the one round I had too hot was a mistake I made of not starting at the bottom of the reloading chart and working up.  Instead, I chose a load from the upper middle of the range and started with that.  Luckily I was loading into pretty new Star-Line brass, so it held the pressure (the round went over the chronograph at 1400 fps or a little faster :eek: , the charts predicted 1100 fps).

I'm going to look into some heavier springs for the gun though, because the ones in it feel pretty mushy.
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Offline jschance

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Spanish Steel
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2004, 02:40:03 AM »
Shot the Star again last weekend, and darned if the thing didn't bite me each time I shot it.   :eek:

I'm getting bit in the web of my hand right behind the thumb.  I guess I'm used to the beavertail safety on my 1911.

I'm going to order some new recoil springs and do some work on the hammer to see if I can make shooting it a little less painfull.
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