Author Topic: Just Aggravating........New #1 (Read 3374 times)

drdougrx · « **on:** May 31, 2010, 03:58:27 PM »

Just venting....2 weeks ago I picked up a brand new Ruger #1LW in 35whalen after having it on order since late February. Finally it arrived so I loaded up some ammo and went to the range. All my buds were there wait'n for their turn to shoot it...so I loaded the first one in and......click. Hmmmm...that's strange....so I picked another cartridge and......click....repeat click x6. Round #7...boom...good...Now I have a case that I can measure and handload to an obviously out-of-character chamber.

I went home, measured and thought...well...lemme prime a few and see what happens. I did and click.....now I'm gett'n kinda riled. Took a case, resized so that the die touches the shell holder and primed, took another, backed off 1 turn and primed, took another case, backed off 2 turns and primed. Case #1, click, case #2, click, case #3...boom. OK...need to neck size and all's well right...wrong....so I got a box of factory 35whalen, handloaded 10 more neck sized rounds and went to the range.

First...loaded the factory into the chamber...took careful aim and......click, repeat, click. Took three tries on each primer to get them to go. Same with the handloads........

Soooo...off to ruger it goes......

Silvertp · « **Reply #1 on:** June 01, 2010, 08:53:09 AM »

Drdougrx

UGGGH! That sucks! Be interested in what Ruger has to say about this! Maybe the firing pin was a tad-bit short? Taking a new rifle to the range is always a crap shoot these days.

Silvertp

drdougrx · « **Reply #2 on:** June 01, 2010, 09:04:15 AM »

Thanks ST....spoke to custom service and the first things they asked were;

"Did you shoot factory ammunition in the gun?" "Did you try different lots of ammunition???"

I asked, "Why??? Are $1000 rifles that sensitive???"

She said, " Please package it up and send it to use unloaded......"

spruce · « **Reply #3 on:** June 01, 2010, 02:15:32 PM »

Disappointing, to say the least. New guns (of all types and brands) not functioning properly seems to be an all too common occurance nowadays.

At least Ruger is a stand-up company as far as making things right so your story should have a happy ending, but that doesn't ease the aggravation right now!

RB1235 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 01, 2010, 03:28:42 PM »

I always loved the looks of the #1. Never had a problem of them not working,,, but never got them to shoot the way I wanted. I had 6 and never was satisfied. I hope when they get yours back it is an accurate one. That whelen should be a good hunter.
Have a nice day.

PowPow · « **Reply #5 on:** June 01, 2010, 03:46:57 PM »

First day out with my new 1-V in 22-250; 8 feet high and 8 feet to the left at 100 yards.
Spent a couple of hours wiggling the target blocks around to get it right, but eventually got it down to a .158" 3-shot group.

Just started with a second generation of new brass, and its gone stupid again; groups at 2-3".
Maybe its dirty, maybe the forearm tension is goofy, maybe my new glasses added some funky parallax to my aim.

If it wasn't aggravating sometimes, it wouldn't be fun when it works.

drdougrx · « **Reply #6 on:** June 01, 2010, 04:33:00 PM »

Thanks All,

Will go out tomorrow. Ruger's been really good about making things right...though...of all the firearms I own, I send Rugers back more than any other. This is my 3rd #1, the other two a .243 and a 45/70 shoot just fine though not match accuracy. I have to admit, the 45/70 will shoot 1" at 100yrds with 350gr Speer SPs if I'm hav'n a good day.

I'm sure they'll figure it out!!!

Silvertp · « **Reply #7 on:** June 02, 2010, 06:37:30 AM »

Quote from: drdougrx on June 01, 2010, 09:04:15 AM

Thanks ST....spoke to custom service and the first things they asked were;

"Did you shoot factory ammunition in the gun?" "Did you try different lots of ammunition???"

I asked, "Why??? Are $1000 rifles that sensitive???"

She said, " Please package it up and send it to use unloaded......"

Drdoug...loved your answer! I have no doubts Ruger will make it right for you, but that doesn't negate the frustration and time before you can start to enjoy your new rifle. Good thing that hunting season is still a ways off.

Silvertp

RB1235 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 02, 2010, 06:57:58 AM »

[/quote]

Drdoug...loved your answer! I have no doubts Ruger will make it right for you, but that doesn't negate the frustration and time before you can start to enjoy your new rifle. Good thing that hunting season is still a ways off.

Silvertp
[/quote]

Exactly, plenty of time to get it back in good working order, which they will do, and get some good loads worked up in it.

mechanic · « **Reply #9 on:** June 02, 2010, 08:27:22 AM »

They have a beautiful #1 in 45-70 at my local shop, but they won't let me look at it any more...they said they were tired of mopping up the drool on the counter.

Hope they get it fixed quickly for you.

drdougrx · « **Reply #10 on:** June 02, 2010, 08:31:09 AM »

Mechanic!!!! I'm in love with my #1 in 45/70. I've used it on all kinds of hogs and deer.....set it up with a 2.5x leupi scout scope with 13" of eye relief and it points like a shotgun!!!

This new rifle is a special run that was only offered in limited quantities from Lipsey's. I was going to look for a used #1 to be rechambered and re-bored to 35whalen by the folks at Delta Gun Shop in FL. They were going to do the project but e-mailed me before I bought anything and were kind enough to tell me about the Lipsey's option...that's integrity and they'll get my business in the future for sure.

Now if Ruger can do its part............

Darrell Davis · « **Reply #11 on:** June 06, 2010, 11:47:31 AM »

Yeeeeeeeeow, love #1s.

Never had a bad one!

Latest one is a #1-s, 45/70 on which I have done away with the, just IMHO, hated Alexander Henry forend tip.

Ooooooo, that ebony does looks nice and really classes up that forend!

Just hope my new LBT mold get here REAL SOON!!!!!!!!!

Keep em coming!

CDOC

drdougrx · « **Reply #12 on:** June 06, 2010, 02:25:18 PM »

Letta .243 slip thru my fingers a while back. Never again!

Darrell Davis · « **Reply #13 on:** June 06, 2010, 04:35:42 PM »

Would really like a .243 in a light sporter, with of course the forend tip treatment spoken of above.

Loved the 243 since the 50s, and in a #1 it would just be about perfect!

Keep em coming!

CDOC

kombi1976 · « **Reply #14 on:** June 11, 2010, 07:40:23 AM »

I hope you get the Whelen sorted quick.
I bought a #1 Tropical in 450/400 NE 3" earlier in the year and it is tons of fun.
I really need to settle on a load for that rifle and go way overkill on some feral goats with it.
Y'know what they say......"You can never use too much gun unless you want to eat it."

Besides, I usually shoot 'em with my 9.3 cal. $:-\$

drdougrx · « **Reply #15 on:** June 12, 2010, 03:36:39 AM »

Hey Kombi!

I hope so too. The whalen is really cool as it is the Lite Sporter model which is easier to carry all day than even the #1 Sporter that I have in 45/70. Will be doing a bit of goat hunting this fall I think....going to see if I can getta big one to add to my SCI exotics slam.

BTW: I really enjoy your hunting stories from Oz. Hope to get there some day!

Hank08 · « **Reply #16 on:** June 13, 2010, 08:25:20 AM »

Drdougrx, don't understand how it could happen but it seems that the ammo makers for the .35 Whelen and the reamer makers had different specs. I have 2 Ruger bolt guns and one custom Mauser 98 in 35 Whelen and I've seen several others that have the same problem as yours.
Factoy ammo is too short or the chambers are too long. When I make cases from 30/06, I have to expand them to a larger size then neck them back to .35. Ive seen new Rem. 700s in 35 Whelen that the Rem. factory ammo would fire but the case heads would seperate. Headspace created at the factory. This has been happening ever since the introduction of the .35 Whelen. I have all my cases headspaced properly now and dies set so they barely touch the shoulder and don't shoot factory and don't have any problems. I would think by now that this would have been corrected.
H08

drdougrx · « **Reply #17 on:** June 13, 2010, 02:29:35 PM »

Thanks Hank!

I've shot some in the rifle....used 06 brass necked up to 33 and again to 35 to prevent splits. Some would fire, some would not. In those that fired, I neck sized only and experienced the same problem. Think I shouls neck 33 to 35 to 375 and then back to 35?

?

You are also correct in that factory brass is no better, more than half were misfires. We'll see what happens when I get the rifle back from Ruger.

kombi1976 · « **Reply #18 on:** June 13, 2010, 02:37:47 PM »

So when it boils down to it, if so many Whelens have the same problem, does that equal less than perfect cartridge design or bad manufacturing?

Darrell Davis · « **Reply #19 on:** June 13, 2010, 03:09:07 PM »

Well, some would say that it is a bad design due to the small shoulder.

Personally I think that is poppycock!

I owned a TC SUPER 14 IN 35REM. a cartridge which also has a very small shoulder and in some circles the rep of poor case life.

Hmmmmmmm well maybe?

??

When I got that 35 Rem barrel, it came with a box of fired brass, the use on which I never knew, but when I sold the barrel that box of brass had been fired 17 additional times..

This 35 Whelen problem sounds like there is enough guilt to go around, with some problems, at times, on both sides of the manufacturing process.

I know this would be a pain, but I think the way to go ON THE FIRST SHOT, is to seat a bullet, maybe a cast boolit, LONG and into the lands to be fired with a good fire forming loads.

Then never ever allow the sizing die to do anything more then possibly (

??) kiss the shoulder.

I used the above fireforming method, WITH GOOD RESULTS, to form new 30/06 brass into 30 Gibbs.

The forming load, depending on how stiff it is, may not fully form the brass, but it needs to be stiff enough to make sure the shoulder is solidly in contact with the chamber's shoulder.

After that forming load, the first full power load will blow out all the corners.

Keep em coming!

CDOC

drdougrx · « **Reply #20 on:** June 14, 2010, 07:39:13 AM »

I dunno Darrell....60gr RL-15 should be plenty to fireform.....maybe also has a weak hammer spring or maybe the loading block has been polished too much or maybe...Gods just once again show'n me that I'm too big fer my britches (which I am).

Darrell Davis · « **Reply #21 on:** June 14, 2010, 11:59:49 AM »

Yep, PLENTY to fire form, I just wonder if the case was solidly held in place by a bullet seated into the lands for a fireforming round, if it wouldn't give a bit better case fit and life.

Of course, a person would want to back off a bit on the load from what you have worked up to with a normally seated bullet.

I understand, that a person can shoot loads with the bullet seated into the lands, as a matter of course OR as their "Normal" load.

However, it needs to be "worked up to" because of the rapid rise in pressure caused by the long seated bullet.

I have had a chamber or two over the years in which the shoulder was blown forward to fill the chamber with new brass.

This was with "belted" brass, so the belt took care of most of the head space issue.

Not sure if it was a long chamber or short brass, but eather way, it really points out the wisdom of keeping a "full length" sizing die backed off from the shell holder as much as possible.

Probably preaching to the choir here, but I found out years back that to follow the directions of turning the
full length" die down to touch the shell holder or enough to allow, as some directions call for, the ram to pop over center at the top to the up stroke, is many times a very quick way to minimize case life.

Always, ALWAYS!!!!!!!! size brass to the very minimum which will allow for easy and smooth chambering.

Enjoy watching this topic, good info, keep us posted on the out come!

Keep em coming!

CDOC

trotterlg · « **Reply #22 on:** June 14, 2010, 03:32:41 PM »

Us Savage guys just set the headspace when installing a new barrel using a piece brass sized in our dies, then the problem does not exist. Larry

Darrell Davis · « **Reply #23 on:** June 14, 2010, 04:48:09 PM »

Trotterlg,

I have thought it would be fun to have a switch barrel Savage, but doubt I'll do it.

If I can shoot everything I now have a reasonable amount in whatever time I am allowed, I will do well.

Ya never know, and age does have a way of creaping up on ya.

Just hope I can make good use of the new to me RUGER #1-s 45/70 and the cast boolits I will cast.

Need to take some deer, maybe an elk and if lucky enough to get another permit, maybe a moose.

Did throw a couple over the chronograph yesterday and 428gr cast went down range starting at over 1960FPS.

I think the 45/70 will be big enough to handle the critters listed above.

Keep em coming!

CDOC

drdougrx · « **Reply #24 on:** June 15, 2010, 04:03:50 AM »

Now Larry...Can't do a whole lot with a #1 in regards to playing with the barrel. If I wanted a Savage, I'd a bought one to be sure. I've owned them in the past and will again. I wanted a #1 and it has issues so I'll deal with them. Had a few Savages with issues over the years...work'n on getting the ammo not to self eject from the magazines on my 17HRM right now. Anyway...this thread is about single shots.

Darrell...I don't think I can seat the bullet anywhere near the lands with this chamber. I suspect it's a headspace issue.

We'll see!

Darrell Davis · « **Reply #25 on:** June 15, 2010, 07:14:04 AM »

With some of the Looooooooong throats, I can see your point!

Keep us upto date!

Keep em coming!

CDOC

Swampman · « **Reply #26 on:** June 15, 2010, 09:11:53 AM »

Quote

Are $1000 rifles that sensitive???

In .35 Whelen they are.

trotterlg · « **Reply #27 on:** June 15, 2010, 09:56:51 AM »

The problem most likely is that the chamber is cut to SAAMI maximum to allow it to chamber any factory ammo that meets the SAAMI specs while most ammo is sized to minimum SAAMI spec to allow it to chamber in any chamber. When you add the two together you get your problem. I know that your round does not have a rim, but my observations about rim thickness is a good example of this. I have chambered dozens of H&R rifle barrels for rimmed cartridges, I have never found factory brass with a rim thickness that is saami spec, it is always about .003 to .005 thinner. If you cut a chamber or rim to allow for a .007 headspace for a SAAMI spec round you will end up with a headspace of .012, could even be a little more. Now when I cut a chamber or a rim for one, I cut it to .002 or so over the rim thickness of the brass or the length of the sized brass. This would not be considered a SAAMI spec chamber, but it works well, is correct for the brass, and produces good results. Complicating this, a break action rifle just cannot stand any over length rounds, the action simply won't close on them, on a bolt gun, you just pull the bolt down and size down the case in the chamber. Wish you luck with whatever fix you find. Larry

kombi1976 · « **Reply #28 on:** June 15, 2010, 10:19:30 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on June 15, 2010, 09:11:53 AM

Quote
Are $1000 rifles that sensitive???

In .35 Whelen they are.

And you think 35 Whelen is a problem.
Ever heard of the 400 Whelen?
If you haven't there's a good reason.

Swampman · « **Reply #29 on:** June 15, 2010, 10:25:22 AM »

Both are too problematic for me.