2" thunder mug from Pyrocreations

[GeorgiaBII]

Hello all,

I'm new to all this but I was directed here by a guy that said you guys know all there is to know about black powder cannon.

I bought a 2" Big daddy thunder mug from pyrocreations before really doing enough *any* deep research.

Now I've got this thing sitting on my desk and I want to learn how to safely use it. ie. not kill pets and nuke the neighbors.

I've also got 5lbs of ffg black powder left over from my rifle days.

Is there a chart or link with information on safe loads for this thing?

Sorry if I'm beating the dead horse. A search with "thundermug" and "pyrocreations" didn't answer my questions. I looked in the faq but may have missed it.


Thanks!

James

edit to add: http://www.pyrocreations.com/inc/sdetail/22635

[RocklockI]

James YOU have found THE PLACE . Welcome .

Gary

[dynomike1x1]

Welcome James be patitent looks like most everyone is off line but you will here from them shortly. Hope you have some luck i dont have a thundermug just a cannon and mortar


                     MIKE

[brokenpole]

James,

Biggest thing to remember is that those things are made strictly for salutes and are not intended for shooting projectiles.

I will help out by putting the questions here that I know the real experts on this site are going to ask:

1)  Size of the bore?

2)  Outer diameter of the tube?

3)  Does it have a chamber? (that is the little pocket at the end of the tube that holds the powder)

Post the answers to these questions and help will be on its way.  These guys are smart enough to know that you don't give info blind.

bp

[GeorgiaBII]

James YOU have found THE PLACE . Welcome .

Gary

Thanks!

Welcome Georgia be patitent looks like most everyone is off line but you will here from them shortly. Hope you have some luck i dont have a thundermug just a cannon and mortar

Man I've got until the cows come home... Worst thing I can think of to do is get impatient and blow my stupid head off in ignorance!

Thanks for the welcome guys!

James

[GeorgiaBII]

James,

Biggest thing to remember is that those things are made strictly for salutes and are not intended for shooting projectiles.

I will help out by putting the questions here that I know the real experts on this site are going to ask:

1)  Size of the bore? 2"

2)  Outer diameter of the tube? 4"

3)  Does it have a chamber? (that is the little pocket at the end of the tube that holds the powder) Unsure. The bore tapers like a drill bit would. If this functions as a chamber I'm not sure.

Post the answers to these questions and help will be on its way.  These guys are smart enough to know that you don't give info blind.

bp

Height is 5"

length of bore to tapered tip is 4.25"

I'm very aware this is a noise maker only. I bought it for that express purpose.

[GGaskill]

Steel or cast iron?

[KABAR2]

Welcome aboard!

I just did a search and found their site (fireworks company) from the photo it looks
substantial enough, would like to have seen more than 3/4" thickness in the base,
by taper you mean the "V" left by the drill bit?

just re-read the other post and see it's from the drill bit, when building a chamber
we like to see rounded surfaces, the corner's create a weak point, in a noise maker
not as much of a problem as in a cannon or mortar shooting ball.

[GeorgiaBII]

Steel or cast iron?

1144 steel according to the site.

[dynomike1x1]

I must have missread the site the ones i saw were aluminum.

[GeorgiaBII]

I must have missread the site the ones i saw were aluminum.

There is no doubt it's steel. Heavy buzzard let me tell you!

Here is a link to the one I bought.

http://www.pyrocreations.com/inc/sdetail/22635

[Double D]

Although this thunder mug doesn't have the one caliber wall thickness we look for in a projectile firing cannon that doesn't concern as much as the  use of 1144 Stress proof.  See the discussion here: http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,208656.msg1099103727.html#msg1099103727

[GeorgiaBII]

Although this thunder mug doesn't have the one caliber wall thickness we look for in a projectile firing cannon that doesn't concern as much as the  use of 1144 Stress proof.  See the discussion here: http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,208656.msg1099103727.html#msg1099103727

Well that is depressing....


But being just a noise maker without projectile or wadding will it even be able to generate enough pressure to do anything?

[GGaskill]

I doubt you will have any trouble with it as long as you don't put too much powder in it or try to use it as a mortar with a shot.  If you are concerned and they won't take it back, it could be lined with a more appropriate alloy liner.

[GeorgiaBII]

I doubt you will have any trouble with it as long as you don't put too much powder in it or try to use it as a mortar with a shot.  If you are concerned and they won't take it back, it could be lined with a more appropriate alloy liner.

Well that is my big question. What is a good charge for it? I doubt I can return it

[Double D]

Well that is depressing...

Yes, but we hope by being here and being quite frank we can help people find this our before they buy and not after.

But being just a noise maker without projectile or wadding will it even be able to generate enough pressure to do anything?

Noise is the product of pressure. 

Given the the manufacturer of the steel doesn't recommend it's use in this manner and the failure are based on the composition of the steel I sure wouldn't use it.

[GGaskill]

I doubt I can return it

Maybe you should explain why you want to return it and offer to take one made from 1018 in its place.  I would also suggest having it bored at 1.75" or 1.5" so you get closer to a 1:1 bore to wall thickness.

[Terry C.]

Welcome, GeorgiaBII!

Check your inbox on the 'other' forum.

[dominick]

But being just a noise maker without projectile or wadding will it even be able to generate enough pressure to do anything?

The problem with the large bore thundermugs is they take so much powder to make a decent noise.  They are real powder hogs especially with such a short bore.  The boom from a cannon or thundermug is basically a sonic boom [the dispacement of air at supersonic speed]  You would be better off with a smaller diameter, longer bore.  You can get the same noise with half the powder.  I built a 2" bore and it takes about 2.5 to 3 ounces with packed wadding to make any serious noise.  The 2.75" bore thundermug would take 7 or 8 ounces of FFg with no wadding to make noise.  That's about 2 shots per can of powder.  The first link is to a 2" thundermug I built. The second video is a 2.75" bore.  I only had cannon grade powder with me for the 2" bore so I used 4 ounces with a wad of newspaper.  Dom    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CX3onxEiPS8      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVBTcF3g_q0

[GeorgiaBII]

Anybody got a link to some Good ones I can buy?


Man I find it hard to believe something this damn heavy could fail without a projectile or wadding...

[barefiel76]

You can of course check the sponsor list. Dom made me a barrel that has become the hit of the lake and sub-division. It is 18" long 3/4" bore. The noise from it will bring a smile to your face. Unless I misunderstand are you look for something before the 4th of July? Check with the sponsors to see who has what you want in stock. This group won't lead you wrong.

[Double D]

Anybody got a link to some Good ones I can buy?


Man I find it hard to believe something this damn heavy could fail without a projectile or wadding...

As has been said check with sponsors.  You find them listed in the stickies at the top of the page.

[5kwkdw3]

I know this thread is old, but maybe you could still use the info.  I'm a big Thunder Mug fan and when I set about getting my thunder mug I wanted the same bore as my other pieces (golf ball bore), and yes everyone has their different idea on what than means.  I've seen the small bore of 1.695 to the largest of 1.75" all listed as "golf ball" bores.  The salute wads I make are forgiving enough to accomodate any size in that range and NO I do not fire any projectiles out of any of my pieces.  I may, given the time, opportunity, and range, launch a few lead balls out of my steel cannon and steel carriage.

Back to the thunder mug.  I came into contact with Austin on one of these posts and he offered to build me what I was wanting at that time.  After several emails back and forth we ended up with the mother of all Thunder Mugs.  It's huge.  14" high with a golf ball bore and 1018 steel that's 6.5" at the chamber area tapered down to 4.75 at the muzzle ring.  He's just finished it and its load is going to be 2000 grains of powder.  It was proof tested with 5000 grains behind a 1# lead ball.  It was then magnafluxed (metal x rayed) and no cracks or other failures.  2000 grains of powder is a bunch.  The ground shakes and your gibblets rattle, but you have one heck of a ear to ear grin on your face after it goes off.  Maybe Austin could make you one like this or another more suiting your wants and powder usage.  You can find him here.....     http://scaleartillery.com/   Good luck and happy blasting.  Smithy.

[Zulu]

I would like to see a picture of this when you get it.  What does that thing weigh?
Zulu

[armorer77]

I have to question the value of the proof  test . 5000 grs of what powder ? 1 lb. ball ? I expect that most of the powder was sprayed on the ground . Try 1100 grs. of FFFFg with 5 lbs. of lead . I have , in one of my barrels .  Armorer77

[Double D]

That's one of those meaningless pull it out your hat proof loads. 

Proof loads are very carefully designed and crafted loads that develop a very specific amount of pressure.  Using CIP standards such a proof load generates 125% of mean working pressure and is fired in each arm..  SAAMI specifications are a bit different, with proof loads fired to  design in series of loads usually in ranges of 140% to 170%.  The proofed piece is measured after each proof shot  and retained for records.  Once the design is proofed, copies made to the design do not need proofed.

The British method of proving  brass guns was fire a  charge equal to the wight of the shot for the bore.  The French used 2/3 of the shot weight for a proof charge.   The later  British Proof test was to load and fire 2 or 300 rounds as fast possible using a standard service load.

Correct bore diameter is not critical in a blank firing thunder mug.

[tombegood]

I also just purchased a Big Daddy. Planning on firing it this weekend when I can get to my local gun shop for some powder. There are tons of videos on youtube of people loading and firing these things. It seems the most critical thing to do when loading it is packing it well. People actually pound their packing material (blue shop paper towels seem to be popular) in with a hammer and large dowel. After doing this, some even take it another step and tape off the opening with heavy duty duct tape.

[Double D]

I also just purchased a Big Daddy. Planning on firing it this weekend when I can get to my local gun shop for some powder. There are tons of videos on youtube of people loading and firing these things. It seems the most critical thing to do when loading it is packing it well. People actually pound their packing material (blue shop paper towels seem to be popular) in with a hammer and large dowel. After doing this, some even take it another step and tape off the opening with heavy duty duct tape.

I can sum up that loading technique as stupid.

The other thing they do is load these barrels full of smokeless powder,  another stupid.

[tombegood]

OK...then give us a good technique??

[flagman1776]

Start with the stckies at the top of this board.  http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?topic=89682.0 
Always use black powder, never smokeless (even if it's grey or black).  Start low & increase loads slowly.  There's information & a chart in the stickie for loads.   
You'll need a couple of "mops" (wet & dry) to put out any sparks, a worm for extracting debris, and a rammer.  And a vent pick of brass wire.  Many like a fine brush for cleaning the vent as well.  Beware...  the blast from the vent (touch hole) is powerful & dangerous to the operator & bystanders... as flaming debris rains down after.  Best to avoid the area directly behind the gun...  perfer to be off at a 45 degree angle. 
Anything you put down the barrel becomes a projectile.  Even blanks can & have killed.  Dry paper becomes a fire hazzard.  Wet paper tends to stick.  A bore obstruction can raise pressures to the failure point.  A small amount of wadding can improve report (BANG) with reduced loads.   You must know beyond a shaddow of a doubt that you have a cannon & not a bomb.
I'm adding links to notable posts here about cannon accidents...  I stuck accidents in the board search box. 
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?action=search2
This is why we are so adamant. 
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,162570.msg1098729749.html#msg1098729749
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,97952.msg1098250115.html#msg1098250115
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9903E4DA1F31EE34BC4052DFB1668382649FDE
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,258746.msg1099530066.html#msg1099530066