How accurate are powder measures?

[DalesCarpentry]

I am going to be ordering the LEE RELOADING BREECH LOCK CHALLENGER KIT pretty soon. Please don't get down on me because it is Lee. It is what I can afford. This is the kit.
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0000690030
It comes with the Lee powder measure. Can anyone tell me how accurate it is at throwing a charge? I am looking to get very accurate reloads. I would think the charge weights would need to be with in a 10th of a grain to be consistant with accuracy. Is the Lee powder measure capable of this or is there any powder measure capable of this? Do you still weigh every charge thrown? Thanks and take care Dale

[Grumulkin]

How accurately a powder measure dispenses powder depends both on the powder measure and the powder.  You'll be hard pressed to get some powders to throw accurately and for this reason, with many powder , I weight individual charges.  I get close with the powder measure and then top off with a powder trickler.

[necchi]

Ain't nuthin wrong with Lee stuff, I have some,,and some RCBS stuff, basically they all have good stuff or they wouldn't be in business.

 The kit you linked to has the basic scale, and they do work, an upgrade from that is made by several and have a bit tighter tolerance and a magnetic dampening feature, I use this one,
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=651400

And yes, for the shooting i do, I use the RCBS Chargemaster Uniflow powder thrower, then "trickle" my charge up too that sweet spot that IS measured to 1/10 of a grain.

44.3 grains will give me a better group than 44.4 or 44.2,,(hypothetical) the idea is to get consistancy,, to keep them all the same.

[DalesCarpentry]

Ain't nuthin wrong with Lee stuff, I have some,,and some RCBS stuff, basically they all have good stuff or they wouldn't be in business.

 The kit you linked to has the basic scale, and they do work, an upgrade from that is made by several and have a bit tighter tolerance and a magnetic dampening feature, I use this one,
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=651400

And yes, for the shooting i do, I use the RCBS Chargemaster powder thrower, then "trickle" my charge up too that sweet spot that IS measured to 1/10 of a grain.

44.3 grains will give me a better group than 44.4 or 44.2,,(hypothetical) the idea is to get consistancy,, to keep them all the same.

That is a very good deal on that scale and will consider it at the top of my list when I upgrade to a better balance beam scale. Thanks Dale

[bstarling]

That is a good set up. I have the same outfit and it is without problems. The scale, by the way, is plenty accurate. It won't weigh over 100 gr so it's not good for bullets but not many folks are into more than 100 gr of powder. Most of the Lee stuff is engineered out of materials that require very little finishing and/or machine easily. This all adds up to a substantial production cost reduction. That''s how they can give such good prices for good equipment. The powder measure is all plastic, but will hold up and is as accurate as most any other.

Bill

[R.W.Dale]

Since buying a used uniflow I haven't weighed indivually charges in almost 6years.  And to date my accuracy has never been better.

It's my experance that once proper technique is mastered any and all charges can be thrown no matter the propellant. Just ask a competive benchrester if they weigh charges. Many don't know the weigh of thier charge beyond how many clicks it is on a culver measure. 

[securitysix]

I like most of the Lee equipment I've used.  That said, I hate their powder measures and their scale.  Their scale is capable of amazing accuracy, but I find it a pain in the arse to set, and it's sensitive to the slightest movement.  Their powder measures (both the "Perfect" and the AutoDisk) tend to bind up when using fine powders.  The "Perfect" powder measure is OK with stick powder once you get used to it, but I still just don't like the feel of it. 

If you're going to use the "Perfect" powder measure from Lee, be sure to follow the directions on prepping the measure, or it won't throw consistently for you.

I would recommend getting a better scale (the scales from either RCBS or Hornady would be excellent choices) and a better powder measure (I like the RCBS Uniflow, but there are plenty of good ones out there) at your earliest convenience.

[Lloyd Smale]

my opinion of lee scales and measures ---- daddy said if youve got nothing good to say .................

[PA-Joe]

Trick with powder measures is to double tap on the up side and double tap on the bottom side. This will give you more consistent loads and help get all of the powder out.

[necchi]

Trick with powder measures is to double tap on the up side and double tap on the bottom side. This will give you more consistent loads and help get all of the powder out.

I had to modify my last post,,I put Chargemaster when I should have said Uniflow,,oop's,

I use alot of extruded powders, Varget, H4895, RL15, 4064,,,an I don't care how ya swing that lever,, that stuff just won't "toss" accurately. Heck, with 4064 it's almost like ya loaded the hopper with ROCKS! One jam and the charge is easily off a full 1/2 grain.

[R.W.Dale]

Trick with powder measures is to double tap on the up side and double tap on the bottom side. This will give you more consistent loads and help get all of the powder out.

I had to modify my last post,,I put Chargemaster when I should have said Uniflow,,oop's,

I use alot of extruded powders, Varget, H4895, RL15, 4064,,,an I don't care how ya swing that lever,, that stuff just won't "toss" accurately. Heck, with 4064 it's almost like ya loaded the hopper with ROCKS! One jam and the charge is easily off a full 1/2 grain.

I couldn't disagree more strongly. To date I've thrown over 8 lbs of varget through my uniflow and have even metered pencil lead looking IMR5010

If you can't throw charges of those accurately with a uniflow it's due to the operator not the measure. I know exactly what your problem is too since you mention jamming.

1  Disregard the instructions and set up your powder measure to dump and therefore cut grains on the downstroke. It and you are much more consistent this way because you're using the weight and inertia of your arm instead of just your wrist muscles

2 and most important operate the measure with authority!! so that when grains get cut they cut cleanly and in a manner that does not impede the motion of the dump. If you try to be limpwristed and gentile you will have nothing but problems.

3 if you do get a throw that "hangs" dump it and try again. (using rule 2 will prevent this)

Below is an example of that a uniflow thrown charge (not measured by weight) of varget can do.

[mdi]

In my experience, almost any "style" is OK with the Lee Perfect, as long as you do it the same every time. If you tap, then tap every time and the same force. As for the Lee Safety Scale it's just a different set up. It uses a vernier poise and a ball and it's the vernier that causes the most complaints (once you learn how to use it, it's a snap!). I've used one off and on for 30 years and find it ok to use as any. I like the "safety" part too, just set it and it won't move when bumped (I have an Ohaus that uses the small thin poise for the 1/10th, and I have inadvertantly bumped the poise when replacing the pan, causing the measure to go heavy, (I one time had to pull/dump 40 or so .44 Mag because I wasn't sure where/when the change took place). Not so with the Lee.

EDIT; I just finished loading up some 45ACP rounds today. I set my Lee Perfect Powder Measure for 4.5 gr. of W231. After I checked, just out of couriosity, I checked 25 loads on my Lyman/Ohaus scale. Even with my old eyes, the scale didn't vary any more than 0.1 gr. I went ahead and loaded 50 checking every 5th round then 10th round and got no decernable variations! Pretty good for a "cheap P.O.S."!

[necchi]

1  Disregard the instructions and set up your powder measure to dump and therefore cut grains on the downstroke. It and you are much more consistent this way because you're using the weight and inertia of your arm instead of just your wrist muscles

  I'll try that. I have about 200-.223 to load with a favored charge, and I sure don't look forward to the monotonous task of "trickling" each charge. I mean it's not too tuff when yer working up loads and only doing 20 or so, but I find trickling a bunch of cases for stock to be the most drudgouis task of loading.

[MZ5]

I have a Lee ProAuto Disk and a Lee Perfect.  In my own measurements of consistency vs. the measurements from other measures (including those listed in this thread) with people on another firearms board I frequent, I have found my Lee measures (both the Auto Disk and the Perfect) to be more consistent than the competition.  My brother has found the same thing with his Lee Perfect.  It can take a bit of fiddling to learn how tight to tighten the screw(s) that hold them together.  Tighter is not better.  Just tight enough is best.  Too tight and you'll crush even ball powder grains.  No measure that I know of can avoid cutting extruded grains sometimes, but the Perfect is as resistant as any I can think of.

The scale is also excellent for the money (and BTW it is magnetically damped), but it will only measure to 110 grains, and despite the damping it's sensitive and somewhat slower to adjust than some of the competition.  For the needs I have to occasionally measure more than 110 grains, I have a very inexpensive digital scale.  As an aside, the Lee scale is dramatically more reliable than the digital in terms of keeping its zero and not being messed up by the air movement from your breathing.

YMMV

[Lloyd Smale]

ive got a lyman digital and a pact and youd have to be kissing the thing for your breath to bother it and they both hold zero just fine and are as accurate as any beam scale i have. Got to wonder what kind of scale you have? Also ive had the disc and the conventional lees set up on there pro 1000 and pro master and they didnt hold a candle to a rcbs, hornady or a dillon when set up properly and that disc measure puts more powder on the floor then it does in a case! Just look at the new lee and put it up next to any of the others and it doesnt take a rocket scientist to see which is the better unit. The lee looks like it was made by matel. Sorry but you couldnt give me one.

[KansasPaul]

Dale,

I have used a Lee powder measure for hand-gun loads without any problems whatsoever. That being said, I would not use a Lee powder measure for rifle cartridges, especially with extruded powders.  The methods previously mentioned, whereby a charge is thrown then placed onto a scale and topped off is probably best given the equipment you are using.  I believe that the real key to success is in taking your time and making sure that your loads are consistent.  At some point in time I will purchase a quality electronic powder measure/scale combo but until then I'll continue to use the method already mentioned.

Paul

[FourBee]

 

by DALESCARPENTRY:  I am going to be ordering the LEE RELOADING BREECH LOCK CHALLENGER KIT

I got that kit.  Never used any other Powder Measurer before so can't compare.  After you learn how to operate it, use the same routine and it'll do its job.  I use it for my .223 Remington, and .357 Magnum Carbine.

[jmayton]

I've used RCBS and Lee equipment and I've found both to be excellent.  Yeah, Lee uses a lot of plastic but it's used where a stronger material is not needed.  My Auto Disk has been very accurate with a single disk but loses a bit when I run double disks.  The Perfect Powder has really impressed me for the price.  I don't do a high volume of reloading so the Lee equipment works well for me.

[MZ5]

ive got a lyman digital and a pact and youd have to be kissing the thing for your breath to bother it and they both hold zero just fine and are as accurate as any beam scale i have. Got to wonder what kind of scale you have? Also ive had the disc and the conventional lees set up on there pro 1000 and pro master and they didnt hold a candle to a rcbs, hornady or a dillon when set up properly and that disc measure puts more powder on the floor then it does in a case! Just look at the new lee and put it up next to any of the others and it doesnt take a rocket scientist to see which is the better unit. The lee looks like it was made by matel. Sorry but you couldnt give me one.

Like I said, my digital is extremely inexpensive.  A Frankford Arsenal, to be specific.  It'll do what I need, you just have to watch whether the HVAC is on, let it warm up for a couple dozen seconds, etc.  No different than an analytical scale in these regards.

As far as the measures, everyone likes what they like, and I have no problem with that.  To be clear, though, I wasn't talking about the appearance of the measures.  I was talking about several people with different brands weighing out 30 charges of a particular powder and sharing the results with one another.  No measure beat(s) my Lee, and most are less consistent.  Maybe I got a great one.  Maybe I took the time to learn how to adjust it.  Maybe the Lee design is simply more consistent.  We each use what we like, for whatever reason(s) we like it.

[roper]

I've had 4 powder measurer in over 45yrs of reloading for rifle cases and I still have 3 of them.  First one was a pacific don't have that one anymore next one was a RCBS,Belding & Mull and BR measurer. 

With all the short cut powders today I think most measurer should be  pretty accurate.  With some powders my RCBS is just as accurate as my BR measurer and really the only advantage the BR has is repeatable click adjustment and once clicks to powder weight is recorded you don't need a scale.  For my varmit rifles I pick powder that meters good but I still check weight every 5/10 throws.

All my other rifles I weight and trickle.  I have two scales RCBS 10/10 and 1500 and there both pretty accurate within -+ 1/10th.

[gypsyman]

Was weighing out H4895 last night for my .270. I use a Redding 3BR. I weighed every charge, and only had one that was more than 2/10ths different. 'Course, the new H4895 is a tad smaller than what it use to be. So, that helps. gypsyman

[Lloyd Smale]

thats allways been my favorite measure and i miss mine that i lost in the fire. One of these days im going to have to pick up another.

Was weighing out H4895 last night for my .270. I use a Redding 3BR. I weighed every charge, and only had one that was more than 2/10ths different. 'Course, the new H4895 is a tad smaller than what it use to be. So, that helps. gypsyman

[Siskiyou]

I am currently using two Lyman 55 powder measures.  I dropped the original one I first got in 1967 last year and broke the handle.  I felt lost because it was very dependable and I was use to using it.  Local shop welded the handle back for me and it is in service.

I purchased a second used, but new at a good price.

One is setup next to my pistol round press and the other at the rifle press.  Pistol powders are fine and they both consistently drop accurate charges.  I am a “what if” person so I check charge weights on a regular bases on my Redding Balance beam scale, more often than I need to.

The fast extruded powders including AA2014, IMR4064, and IMR4320 flow nicely from the Model 55.  If it was not for my “what if” nature I could load directly from the M55.  Ball Powders also flowing nicely from it.  I have loaded BL-C (2), 748, H335, H414, 760, WW785, WMR, AA8700, and H870 using the Model 55 with a slight exception it has been on the mark.  It cuts some H4831 and consistency is not as close as it is with the fine extruded and ball powers.  Most charges of H4831 are correct, but every once and while I will need to add a little.

I have come to realize that consistency drops off when the powder in the reservoir drops down to around five hundred grains or ten rounds.  The best way to maintain consistency is to keep the standard reservoir when using larger grain powders over 30% full.  I resolved the problem by replacing the 4500 grain reservoir with a 7000 grain reservoir on the one setup for rifle cartridges. 

Last night I loaded twenty 308 test rounds for a friend.  I was loading minimum recommend charge.  I did not want to change either of the M55’s.  I found a Lee scoop that was just under the targeted charge.  I scooped and trickled each charge until it zeroed on the scale.  Right now both are tossing charges exactly as I want them for current projects. 

The brother who does a lot of loading has used two RCBS powder measures for years.  He is happy with them. 

[gypsyman]

Siskiyou, my Redding has a baffle in it, to keep the powder at an even consistant pressure. It wouldn't be hard to make one, if your measure doesn't have one. Could be made out of an aluminum pop can with a pair of sissors. gypsyman

[Siskiyou]

 gypsyman:

Thanks for your post.  I have read that some measurers have baffles but have never observed one.

From your post I gather that a light weight one functions.  I had been thinking of putting a 6oz fishing sinker of top of the powder to maintain consistent pressure on it.  I would need to check to see if a 4 or 6 would fit.

Would you describe how the powder is loaded into the reservoir in relationship to the baffle, on top, below or a little of both? 


http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0007603700

The problem only occurs on those last few rounds when there is limited powder left


Thanks

[R.W.Dale]

Siskiyou, my Redding has a baffle in it, to keep the powder at an even consistant pressure. It wouldn't be hard to make one, if your measure doesn't have one. Could be made out of an aluminum pop can with a pair of sissors. gypsyman

A really easy to make and use baffle that's far superior to the factory ones is a small funnel that sits on top of the powder hopper.

Fill the hopper from the funnel and continue to fill the funnel with enough powder to load what you have planned. This way the exact same amount of powder dropped comes out of the funnel each time. The weight of the funnel and varying portion of the powder column is carried by the funnel and the sides of the powder hopper.  Think hourglass that's full on both ends

[DalesCarpentry]

Well I set my Lee Perfect powder measure up tonight and have to say I am very impressed with this cheaply made measure. I say cheap because it is 95% plastic. I have no idea how it will hold up but it consistantly throws a charge with the H-380 I am using. I run 4 hoppers of powder through it prior to testing it. I just picked a weight and threw about 30 charges and it did not vary by even a little. To say I am surprised is an understatement. I was not even going to bother setting it up because I really did not think it could be accurate enough for me. I really expected it to vary by at least a couple 10th of a grain but that is not the case. I will still weigh every 5 charges or so but this is going to speed up the loading process considerably. Dale

[KansasPaul]

Dale,

Not sure how much humidity you have in your neck of the woods but one helpful trick that I found to eliminate static in the plastic hopper of your powder measure is to wipe it out with a dryer sheet. The other thing to consider is that ball powder will usually meter really well in your Lee measure - it's when you move into extruded powders or powder that is made of very small granules that you may have some trouble.

Nice to hear that your new equipment is working well for you.

Paul

[DalesCarpentry]

Dale,

Not sure how much humidity you have in your neck of the woods but one helpful trick that I found to eliminate static in the plastic hopper of your powder measure is to wipe it out with a dryer sheet. The other thing to consider is that ball powder will usually meter really well in your Lee measure - it's when you move into extruded powders or powder that is made of very small granules that you may have some trouble.

Nice to hear that your new equipment is working well for you.

Paul

Thank you. It is funny you brought up the dryer sheet thing because I found that tip last night on Utube. Take care Dale

[john keyes]

I have a uniflow that came with my rockchucker kit twenty years ago.  I gave up on some H4350 just a few hours ago, busted out the empty aspirin bottle and weighed the rest of em out.  And the worst hogdgon extruded these days is ten times better than the old IMR busted up dried spaghetti stuff.    I see no reason to Bruce Lee my powder measure.   
Besides, there is more than the extruded that won't meter worth crap....there is the fluffy stuff like RL22.  now maybe if you are loading expanded .45/70 brass and have hogged out the nozzle