Looking for a 1911 my 1st I have 700.00 or less to spend so

[williamlayton]

Kimber has a good reputation--they had an issue with the external extractor--but that seems to be corrected.
The inexpensive--to me--STI for a grand, or there about, is about the best.
I say inexpensive for me: Let me clarify so that you boys and gals don't have a heart attack.
If I am buying tooth picks/lemonade/carpet/cars I don't look at the price as starting point. I look at function and construction.
Now in tooth picks I don't buy flat ones. An example.
I like steel pistols. You can carve, whack and change parts on them--the same as an RIA. Then I look at the fit and finish and the parts--I change what I don't care for to what I want--well, a smith does--.
I bought an old beater--I know, I know, this is an old worn out story--of a Norinco. It is one of my finer guns NOW.
Blessings

[SHOOTALL]

Kimber has a good reputation--they had an issue with the external extractor--but that seems to be corrected.
The inexpensive--to me--STI for a grand, or there about, is about the best.
I say inexpensive for me: Let me clarify so that you boys and gals don't have a heart attack.
If I am buying tooth picks/lemonade/carpet/cars I don't look at the price as starting point. I look at function and construction.
Now in tooth picks I don't buy flat ones. An example.
I like steel pistols. You can carve, whack and change parts on them--the same as an RIA. Then I look at the fit and finish and the parts--I change what I don't care for to what I want--well, a smith does--.
I bought an old beater--I know, I know, this is an old worn out story--of a Norinco. It is one of my finer guns NOW.
Blessings

Wish you would bring that Norinco up so much    You are going to make the cost go up and I haven't found one yet !

[mrussel]

I have a RI "Tactical" 5". (Bought it as a favor from a friend needing money) Certainly not anything to brag about IMO. I suppose if I had never handled or owned a 1911 before it'd likely be an improvement over other pistols in it's price range. Better ergonomics and looks for sure. I have owned and used 1911s for 50yrs, and currently own several. I would recommend buying something in the $800-$1000 range from Colt, Kimber, STI, Springfield, Smith & Wesson, or even Taurus. In that price range you can get a 1911 with decent sights and controls that will perform as a quality pistol should. Lots of first time 1911 buyers buy the basic pistol only to find they need to replace many of the milspec parts to get what they really want in a 1911. To each his own, I guess.
Savage

 I dissagree. If your expecting a Wilson Combat for 400 dollars,your going to be disappointed ,that's true. Still,the RIA is good for the what you pay. If buy it with realistic expectations,then you will most likely be very happy with your purchase as you find it exceeds what you expected. IF you buy however,expecting to get something the same as a 2000 dollar gun,your going to be very very disappointed. It is what it is,and it does what it does very well.

 Still,he said he wanted to spend around 700 dollars. He can get something better than an RIA. On the other hand,there are people talking about how this or that can be gotten for around a thousand. Thats not much use to him,as he has 700 dollars to spend,not 1000.

[SHOOTALL]

What should one expect ? When I buy a 1911 I expect it to work PERIOD . In the 70's ok they were set up for ball ammo , today it should feed whats standard ammo on the market with in reason. Cost should reflect sights, grip panels , cast vs. forged , bevel job, carry job. trigger job , extended vs mil spec controls , spring rod and type metals and finishes used . To say i got a $500.00 pistol and expect jams is pure BS. Why on earth would anyone buy a gun they expect to jam ?
 A 10 or so years ago at a show there was a dealer who needed some cash . Late sunday he was selling off enough to raise the cash he needed . For 800 i got a Colt 1911 new in the box from the Colt custom shop . Rosewood grips with colt logo, full length guide rod , 8 round mags with shooting star followers , custom hammer and trigger, low profile combat sights . It was SS . Box and papers . The gun is a great shooter and dijest anything i feed it . It is very tight , need a bushing wrench to take apart , the speical reverse bushing had to be tapped the first few times to get it to move when taking it apart . It has a bevel mag well and most eadges were smoothed . Not sure what the real cost was he was asking 1400 10 years ago.
Point is there are deals out there just shop. Don't settle for junk! There are many local gunsmiths who can give you a gun equal to many of the high dollar guns at a fraction of the price . What local smiths lack is marketing not skill 

[mrussel]

What should one expect ? When I buy a 1911 I expect it to work PERIOD . In the 70's ok they were set up for ball ammo , today it should feed whats standard ammo on the market with in reason. Cost should reflect sights, grip panels , cast vs. forged , bevel job, carry job. trigger job , extended vs mil spec controls , spring rod and type metals and finishes used . To say i got a $500.00 pistol and expect jams is pure BS. Why on earth would anyone buy a gun they expect to jam ?
 A 10 or so years ago at a show there was a dealer who needed some cash . Late sunday he was selling off enough to raise the cash he needed . For 800 i got a Colt 1911 new in the box from the Colt custom shop . Rosewood grips with colt logo, full length guide rod , 8 round mags with shooting star followers , custom hammer and trigger, low profile combat sights . It was SS . Box and papers . The gun is a great shooter and dijest anything i feed it . It is very tight , need a bushing wrench to take apart , the speical reverse bushing had to be tapped the first few times to get it to move when taking it apart . It has a bevel mag well and most eadges were smoothed . Not sure what the real cost was he was asking 1400 10 years ago.
Point is there are deals out there just shop. Don't settle for junk! There are many local gunsmiths who can give you a gun equal to many of the high dollar guns at a fraction of the price . What local smiths lack is marketing not skill  

 Did I say you should expect jams? Now its true that the feed ramp on some guns wont feed some hollow points. Still,that's just the design. I expect my car to run,period. Still,I don't put diesel in it,because I know that's not going to work. I have a 22lr semi auto carbine. I COULD put 22short in it,but I know that it will jam every time. Other rifles can shoot that,but mine cant. Thats just how the rifle is designed. I knew that when I bought it and didn't care. I don't know why they do this,but they do. I don't consider that so much a flaw,as just the way it is.  It feeds other hollow points and hardball just fine.Anything that feeds Hornady XTPs,Im happy with.
  That throated feed ramp is something they put on the nicer guns,or you can have it done to the cheap ones. Oh well.
If you want to pay 500 instead of 400 for an RIA,then you can get that taken care of. Other than that,there is really nothing I would change. Its a cast frame,some people don't like that,but I haven't heard of any failing. It has lots of MIM parts,but they seem to be decent quality ones,and guns costing three times as much have them too. The big difference is the quality of the parts. If your going to be doing alot of customizing,the cheap ones are not for you. If you want something that goes bang when you pull the trigger,and your going to leave it like it is out of the box,then the cheap ones might be ok for you.

 It seems that you have quite a bit of anger there and feel the need to call anything that doesn't cost as much as what you bought junk. Take a couple of antacid for the ulcer your raising and relax.

[williamlayton]

I like Shootall but this blurb is not about defending him or his thought. We disagree enough to prove that.
I don't hear any anger.
I agree that most folks don't shoot more than a box of ammo through any pistol they buy for home or self-defense. I said most, not you, me or Shootall.
There is truth in all that he says about weapons from Colt in the 80's and there are literally thousands laying in night stands that have had a "clip" run thru them.
They may have worked then.
Heck, they may work now.
You can put a Ford car on a race track and it may run 120MPH.
I wonder how long it will run 120MPH? Maybe forever--maybe. If I was going to depend on that I would be looking at something else however.
I know that most folks, including me, don't shoot 100,000 rounds a year with one or 10 guns.
What I expect to own is one that will--it may not, on the day I depend on it--see Murphy's Law--but what I want is one that I can depend on and that has shown its worth thru experience.
I am unabashadly a friend on well worked and refined guns.
Blessings

[SHOOTALL]

diesel in a gas truck ? if it says 45acp on the box its not diesel !
mrussel, wasn't picking on you (sorry it struck a nerve) just stating what I expected in a gun . If my expectations are higher than others so be it . I just don't accept second rate work. If a company puts a gun on the market it should work with little fuss. That's not to say one out of 1000 won't have a problem ( i have had several guns with a problem from Ruger , Browning ,Winchester and S&W but it was not the norm ) . The difference in cost should be in finish , fit and group size not wheather the gun will cycle  or not or if it will shoot normal ammo. If the gun will only shoot a certian ammo then the seller should point that out to the buyer . The Seacamp 32 was built for Winchester ammo a great example.
 And William running a race car on the street ask for break downs and poor preformance , trust me I tried it for years . Today its a pretty much box stock truck and weapon . No extended anything , flaired what ever or super dooper anything just want it to shoot where i point it every time !Oh yea and the truck to get me where i need to go. If I want to dress something up , I'll take the wife shopping 

[williamlayton]

 
I guess I have to much respect for the BG's---I want em shot with the best.
Seriously--
I understand both/all sides.
I just don't agree with em all.
Blessings

[1911crazy]

I still get a lump in my throat when i think about the $$ I wasted on bad 1911's.

After installing a National Match Barrel Bushing (IAI) from Cdnn investments,  a new $59 barrel/full length guide rod kit w/18# recoil spring from spg,  doing all my own work it came out awesome.  The norinco kicks butt now and there's no wasted time in cycling because of the less over travel.  My point is i'd rather learn and do it myself than let anyone work on my guns.  I've learned in the past from letting others work on my stuff i ended up doing it myself anyway after they screwed it up now i trust no one, even if i learn thru my own mistakes.  I built CNC machines worth in the millions and 155mm howitzers for the US Army so why can't i work on a 1911 too?

I know doing a complete 1911 build will cost more than buying one but i'm almost there already with just missing the frame.  I think buiilding one would be awesome and i have bragg'n rights when its done too.  I'm sure i can build a better one than some of the top shelf crap i have had in the past.

To me the norc's are number #1 but there not $300 anymore.  My new AO was just $389.

The bottomline is even if i spent $2,000 on a new 1911 it doesn't mean i'll get a good one.  Maybe its just my bad luck that i always get the bad ones even if its 1 out of a million i get the bad one.  So if i get a good one i'll shout it off the roof tops for sure.

My new AO is as good as my norinco is only the slide is tighter because its still brand new.  I'd put my life on the line with my norc or my new AO for sure.  My two springers are still waiting in the shadows.  One jams 1 rd per mag and the other is still unfired.  So much for springers.  I'd happy that a company in Wooster,Mass can manufacture a flawless 1911 my hats off to Auto Ordnance.

[mrussel]

diesel in a gas truck ? if it says 45acp on the box its not diesel !
mrussel, wasn't picking on you (sorry it struck a nerve) just stating what I expected in a gun . If my expectations are higher than others so be it . I just don't accept second rate work. If a company puts a gun on the market it should work with little fuss. That's not to say one out of 1000 won't have a problem ( i have had several guns with a problem from Ruger , Browning ,Winchester and S&W but it was not the norm ) . The difference in cost should be in finish , fit and group size not wheather the gun will cycle  or not or if it will shoot normal ammo. If the gun will only shoot a certian ammo then the seller should point that out to the buyer . The Seacamp 32 was built for Winchester ammo a great example.
 And William running a race car on the street ask for break downs and poor preformance , trust me I tried it for years . Today its a pretty much box stock truck and weapon . No extended anything , flaired what ever or super dooper anything just want it to shoot where i point it every time !Oh yea and the truck to get me where i need to go. If I want to dress something up , I'll take the wife shopping 

 No offense taken. Didn't feel I was being picked on,just seemed like you got a little worked up over cheap guns. 

 As far as the gun only shooting certain ammo,you are correct,it should be made clear. Nothing beats full disclosure,and while some companies dont seem to realize it,disclosing the limitation of your products is going to go better in the long term. You might get a few more sales initially,but then your going to get a rep for being junk because your customers expectations wont be met. It is true that some manufacturers will tell you when asked (others give you the run around,and of course the "good" brands just feed it without a problem) but I cant argue there. Of course,the gun stores I shop at have clerks that are very forthcoming about the good and the bad of the guns they carry,but that's why I choose to shop there. (actually,the owners manual of the RIA does say that its not intended to feed hollow points,but it IS buried in there and they could have made it more prominent or in fact they COULD just change the feed ramp)

 I do in fact own an RIA,and in fact I love it. The reason of course is,I went in knowing exactly what it was,and expecting far less from it than what it turned out to give. Thats why I constantly make certain to mention,don't expect it to be a 1500 dollar gun. (I hear some people going on about how they would "Put their RIA up against a top end 1911 any day",and I always chime in with those who say,"No way,its not even in the same league") What it does is go bang every time I pull the trigger. Thats what I expect from it,within the limitations of what I know it will feed. Its mechanically reliable. Im not going to pretend its something that I can do a thousand dollars of mods to. That would be absurd. About the only thing I would consider is having it taken care of so it can feed other kinds of hollow points. (even that Im not really worried about,it feeds XTPs just fine,so why rock the boat)

 I do agree,if I bought a 1911 thinking it would feed hollow points,the gun store I bought it from didn't tell me,and then I found it jammed every round,and I had to go through box after box of premium ammo to find one that would work,IF I could find one that would work,I would be upset. I think its all about expectations. For example,I considered buying one of the 140 dollar High Point 9mm to play with. I have certain expections that I want to be met. I could live with a few jams,as it would just be a toy. If it went bank MOST of the time,then I would live with it. I'm not competing with it,and I certainly would carry it. (I have an old french 32acp pistol that I wouldnt carry either. Its fun to shoot,but I feel that the mechanism to hold back the striker just is not safe enough to carry and that it could discharge if dropped.) I expect and demand that it be safe to fire. If it sometimes (it only takes once) puts the slide in your forehead,that's unacceptable of course. (I haven't heard of anyone having one blow up,so that seems OK)  The one thing I could not get past is the Zamak slide. I have a lathe that has Zamak gears and a few Zamak brackets. IT was made just before WWII and is a damn good piece of equipment. The Zamak parts are actually made to fail,to protect the "expensive" parts. (Ok,80 years later,those Zamak parts are getting pricey) In that application,the only time a Zamak party typically breaks,is when otherwise something critical would have broke. Zamak was a good way to protect the critical parts,as well as reduce costs. The slide on a gun does not meet those criteria. I just cant get myself to spend my money on a gun with Zamak parts. (Far better to spend my money on an old com-block gun,that was made like a Russian tank.)

[williamlayton]

Expectations is a good word.
Blessings

[Lloyd Smale]

no doubt you can get a good ria or norinco but imo your rolling the dice alot more then you would be with something like a kimber or colt. Ive handled quite a few of both and have founds some pretty big swings in quality control on the examples ive handled and shot. very few of them were reliable enough out of the box to be trusted with anything but ball.

[SHOOTALL]

I would buy a Glock before buying a cheap made 1911 , seems more cost effective to me. That said with cnc machines being what they are today there is little excuse for a inexpensive gun not to function out the box . Please note i see a difference in inexpensive and cheap made.

[mrussel]

no doubt you can get a good ria or norinco but imo your rolling the dice alot more then you would be with something like a kimber or colt. Ive handled quite a few of both and have founds some pretty big swings in quality control on the examples ive handled and shot. very few of them were reliable enough out of the box to be trusted with anything but ball.

 I would have to agree with you on the ball ammo comment with one exception. Its not that they wont feed hollow points,its that you have to find the hollow points it shoots reliably,then you have to validate that it will shoot those reliably. I do that with ANY gun and any ammo,but Im sure you will state that if I were to buy certain guns,I could probobally do away with that step and be ok,even if I would choose not to. That would probably be a valid statement.

[mrussel]

I would buy a Glock before buying a cheap made 1911 , seems more cost effective to me. That said with cnc machines being what they are today there is little excuse for a inexpensive gun not to function out the box . Please note i see a difference in inexpensive and cheap made.

 I fully agree on the statement of the CNC machines. There is really no excuse except poor management or a choice to rip off your customers, that a 1911 does not work right. Its not like they had to design the thing. They just had to design the manufacturing process. The design work has already been done, and you know if you make one to the proper specs,its going to work. In fact,most of the problems with them have all been ironed out over the 100 years its been in production. I do make an exception to that statement for feeding hollow points though. I don't know WHY so many companies don't make them so they can,but its a choice. In some,it even says so in the manual. Thats how they WANT to make them,even though I don't like them that way.

 Feeding hollow points is a feature,and its not present on many cheap models. It actually takes marginally LESS metal (as evidenced by the fact that you can send it to a smith,and they REMOVE metal and make it feed them) I may not understand WHY they dont have that feature,and many,if not most people thing that it is a critical feature to have,but it does not have it. Its like a car without air conditioning. If you life anywhere it gets hot in the summer,its a MUST have feature. (There is a good reason not to have it of course,it costs more,and some people,in some regions wont want it. I knew a guy where I used to live that bought a car without AC and he was perfectly happy to roll down the windows in the summer,because it just didn't get that hot there) Its not that there is something WRONG with such cars,but Im not going to buy one,because I like to crank it down to 65 degrees in the summer.

 What WOULD be a problem would be if for instance,you bought a Lexus,and it didnt have AC,and no one bothered to tell you that it didnt, (Who would expect that?) or if you otherwise bought a car and they led you to believe,or honestly KNEW that you assumed the car had AC and didnt tell you. (Of course a car salesman WOULD do exactly that,but then car salesmen are often somewhere close to thieves and con men.) I expect the people at a gun store though to tell me things that they reasonably know that I will want to know about. In fact,they do exactly that. When I ask,why is such and such gun so cheap,they will tell me "It has a zamak slide" or "Here,pick it up and work the slide and it speaks for itself why its so cheap". If they tell me "These are actually pretty good,they just make a good product at a good price" then I know I can believe them,or at least that they honestly believe what they are saying.

[FourBee]

posted by:  mrussel   "   I knew a guy where I used to live that bought a car without AC and he was perfectly happy  "

It'd be great if we all could afford the luxuries of life.
For people working 10 hours a day on the assembly line of a Chicken Plant, to buy a new LEXUS to drive would be a little extreme.   Same people that are 1911 gun buffs get all excited just to be able to shoot a few rounds down range, when they can afford it, and have the time to shoot.   To top it all off, some treasure their AO's, RIA's, and NORINCO's, as though it were Custom Made.  Ain't life Grand !

[SHOOTALL]

fourbee , I do agree with that statement but they should be able to buy a gun that shoots not one that need work right out the box. I hunted years ago with a guy who worked in a saw mill . He had wanted a 45 1911 since he was a kid . He bought a new Thompson 1911 after saving for it . It would not even shoot ball ammo. Great price though .

[FourBee]

Posted by: SHOOTALL     He bought a new Thompson 1911 after saving for it . It would not even shoot ball ammo.

SHOOTALL; that's an unfortunate event I don't wish on anyone.  Matter of fact it is sickening, especially on the one who has to save his hard earned money for such a purchase.  The only bright side to that is ~  Like my brother, some guys go a step further and take the occasion to become a pretty decent gunsmith.   

[SHOOTALL]

Shouldn't have to 

He won't have to , he was a sawyer ( rode one of the big saws ) and a log took him out a few years ago .