Concealed Carry rifles

[Bill T]

well,what do you think of the idea of a Romanian AK Draco Pistol or a AR-15 Pistol as a Concealed Carry Handgun or car gun?

I think they are a fun range gun, but for serious social work I prefer a good, solid Yugo Underfolder. Longer sight radius, longer barrel that was designed to extract full velocity from the 7.62 X 39 MM cartridge, and a more reliable platform. I've heard mixed reviews about how well these chopped AK pistols run. An AK-47 Underfolder isn't that much harder to conceal. I'm not so sure I would want to anyway. Much of the AK's effectiveness is in it's menacing appearance. Bill T.

[SHOOTALL]

Bill I have seen several of those used at shows for $400.00 . Are they worth that ? The folding stock seems better than the small fixed one

[Bill T]

The going price for a Yugo M-70B Underfolder today is right around $480.00. They are worth it because the Yugo models come with a thicker sheet steel receiver compared to the Romanian models. There is nothing "wrong" with the Romanians, it's just the Yugo models are heavier and exhibit a better overall degree of fit and finish. The wood forend models are getting a little hard to come by. Most now have the black synthetic furniture. Good weapon all the way around.  Bill T.

[teddy12b]

I think the Draco's look like a fun gun to shoot at the range, but having shot an AR pistol once, it wouldn't be my first choice by any stretch.  For one, with the shorter barrel, you're going to get a fireball.  That's fine for shooting at high noon, but in early morning, late evening it could be bad.  I don't concealed carry or keep a gun in the car so my advice is worth what you paid for it.  If I was to keep a rifle in the car, it'd probably be a 20" 308 bolt gun like that savage police model with the folding stock.  That's a compact rifle, with power, accuracy and distance.  Add a high cap pistol to that and you should be set.

[bubbinator]

Have you looked at the Kel-Tec SU-16C?  It has a 16" bbl, with a flash-hider option(Comes with only a thread guard cap), folding stock that allows 30rd. AR-15 mag to be used. The factory forend opens to a bipod, but there is tactical option fore end that adds rails. I took that route, adding a light, foregrip, tactical light and sling swivel.  Top rail is topped with a Bushnell Holosight, same 1-MOA circle/dot reticle as Eotech, but 1/2 weight, uses same "N" batteries(Cheap at Home Depot/Lowes-don't go to a drug store 200% higher). Don't have tape in hand, but I think it folds to close to 24". As for accuracy, I acquired some WW RAnger LE 60gr. Nosler ammo.  I got 1MOA @ 100 yds with it!  Shot lots of other stuff before this and really never had bad accuracy with anything., The 60GR Noslers just really shot well.  Further research on LE Forums and such revealed that that load pentrated almost was well as .308 ammo!  The Red Dot sight is as asset too, when you see the dot on the target with both eyes open thru the reticle, you will hit it.

[jamaldog87]

I think they are a fun range gun, but for serious social work I prefer a good, solid Yugo Underfolder. Longer sight radius, longer barrel that was designed to extract full velocity from the 7.62 X 39 MM cartridge, and a more reliable platform. I've heard mixed reviews about how well these chopped AK pistols run. An AK-47 Underfolder isn't that much harder to conceal. I'm not so sure I would want to anyway. Much of the AK's effectiveness is in it's menacing appearance. Bill T.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoBuoWah6SE it's a AR Pistol in 9MM. Looks good in 9mm maybe 40S&W or 45ACp. Olympic Arms makes a .223 and 9mm one for 929.00 MSRP or 973.70 MSRP for .223. they both come with 6.5 barrels. rock river arms makes a 40S&W for $1,165.00 .

For ak i like the side folding stocks becuase there easy to get open.  What about Romania or Yugoslavian AK from Century Arms International ? they seem to be a lot of them around.

[Bill T]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoBuoWah6SE it's a AR Pistol in 9MM. Looks good in 9mm maybe 40S&W or 45ACp. Olympic Arms makes a .223 and 9mm one for 929.00 MSRP or 973.70 MSRP for .223. they both come with 6.5 barrels. rock river arms makes a 40S&W for $1,165.00 .

Bushmaster also makes them in both .223 and 9 MM. This one is a Carbon 15 Model 21-S .223 with an EO-Tech mounted.   Bill T.

[jamaldog87]

the Olympic Arms ones cost less and to me look more like a cool short barrel rifle.

this is there LE mode only


and this is the AR handgun in 223


here one they also sell

[mrussel]

some were large though with fast engines ! Hard to get a rifle in the econo boxes out there today  

I have a little M95 carbine that would easily fit in the smallest of cars. Its just really handy. I dont carry it in my car,but if I did feel the need to keep a long gun handy,I would go for either that or maybe a lever action.

[jlwilliams]

  I can definitely see how a short barreled folding stocked rifle would be a great asset.  I know that the legality of NFA makes owning an SBR (never mind carrying for personal defense) more hassle than most people will put themself through.  For the sake of discussion, I'd like to set that aside and focus on that sort of gun as if it were more of an option than it is.

  Fact is most people can't shoot a hand gun to save their lives.  Ironic since that is exactly why you may need to shoot a handgun .  Anyway, if you could carry something that folded down and didn't have the barrel length to contend with then in the extream moment the shots fired would be more effective, in fact that would be safer because aimed shots are less likely to hurt bystanders.  Imagine the Draco pistol or the old 30 carbine Enforcer pistol with the ability to unfold it and that's what I'm picturing.  Even in a pistol caliber, like a CZ Skorpion or even a MAC type gun.  Maybe a folding or removable stock for a pistol like a Glock.  Not even a FA, just a semi auto that's set up in the true SMG configuration.  With frangible ammo available for the rifle and pistol calibers you could really have something.

 This is exactly where the modern 'PDW' type gun designs are going and for the same reasons.  Handguns aren't always enough and rifles are a bit more than you want to carry around while you're trying to do whatever your day requires.


  All that said, back to the legalities.  I don't have any SBR or SBS guns, but I'm really leaning toward a stamp (for either my 10-22 or my Contender)  Today's legal and social climate being as it is, I'd NEVER carry NFA for CCW.  I just wouldn't want to try to stand in front of a jury of my "peers" and try to talk my way out of that.  They wouldn't see a man protecting himself, they's see Carlos The Jackal.  That's why if I get a SBR stamp it will be for a purely fun gun, not a 'practical' arm.

[Jimbo47]

Concealed carry rifle is one that is exactly that!    You can carry it concealed as in a briefcase or a laptop bag, or even have it stuffed into the side of your jacket under your arm.

I've got a KelTec sub 2000 in 9MM, and they also come in .40 caliber and the one I have uses the Glock 17 mags and I've also got the 33 Round Glock high capacity mag for it.

At 16 1/2 inches long and 6 1/2 inches wide folded up, is a great companion for my Glock pistol.
http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/08/captain-john-raguso/gun-review-kel-tec-sub-2000-40/

[bubbinator]

For all of concerned about over penetration, a recent episode of a Tactical Weapons show on the Sportsman Channel addressed that issue.  All the handgun calibers tested penetrated all 3 walls while the 223 rifle rounds did not- so it seems a CCW short rifle may be safer in that respect due the frangibility fot their bullets @ high velocity.  Buck shot was tested too, and it over penetrated.

[Lon371]

 Other than out on the range, a brief case gun could work. Can be had in handgun cartridges.
 
This briefcase machine gun is an ideal option for any military/law enforcement personnel who need to pose as civilians during special missions. Inside, you'll find an MP5K submachine gun that weighs only 4.4-pounds and is 13-inches long.

Lonny

[BIGDAVE54]

Just for kicks one night I was watching a historical program about Clyde Barrow sawing off Browning BARs and hiding them under his trench coat with a small shoulder strap on it. I took my 45-70 Handi with the 22 in. barrel and tied a couple of leather boot strings around the hand grip.I then slid it on and put my black LONDON FOG trench coat on....It worked fine. I did not take it and walk through the mall,but i could have.
     I grew up in WVa. in the underground coal regions. I was a coal miner just like my dad,grandpas,all of my uncles, and both brothers.I have a license called a SHOT FIRERS card that allows me to use dynamite and other explosives. I also have a trainers card that allows me to train miners including the use of explosives. Several years ago a guy on the Virginia side of the state line a few miles away went beserk,loaded his lever acton 30.30 and started shooting at cars as he walked down a country road through the mountains. He wounded several people including an innocent housewife that later died. The Virginia and WVa. state troopers came in a pretty short time and shot him.My fellow coal miners and I agreed that under those circumstances out on a mountain road...none of us would be adverse to fusing a few  caps and sticking them in a few sticks of dynamite and taking a road sniper out. Usually we used electric caps,but could fuse caps for use on top of the ground. I could probably fit a few of those in an inside pocket in my trench coat. Since 9/11 it is very very hard to get access to explosives even in the coal mines. They control all of that pretty carefully nowadays.

[jlwilliams]

  I can see how concealed carry and dinamite could be a touchy one.  Some people (jurors maybe) just wouldn't understand.

[mrussel]

  I can see how concealed carry and dinamite could be a touchy one.  Some people (jurors maybe) just wouldn't understand.

"Local man blows own arm off trying to use dynamite in a gun fight. Film at 11"

[bubbinator]

Another option, which I had access to as an LEO is the WW 870 12" 12ga. handgrip shot gun.  It is a ClassIII NFA weapon, but with a little imagination you could hide it in a tube sock attached to your belt with zip ties!  I did!  Any Class III dealer can get you one, and for a "car gun" you are not looking for rifle caliber guns.  You stick that Baby in some non-swimming DXXXXXXXXXS'z face you will not get a smile!  I know that too!  I carry a G21 and the Keltec SU16C now that I am retired, but guess what.  I also have a High Standard 18" Rifle sight 7-shot 12ga. in the truck too, 8 in and 6 on the stock. I t was CHP trade-in I got for $125 and shoots like a dream in its class.