EMP

[LabRat2k3]

After taking some time to digest what I saw on that show, I guess my main concern is with the government. It seems all the money that is being spent is to keep the gov. protected and not much for the civilians(imagine that). It seems to me that an EMP strike would only make the government stronger, they would declair martial law, control all the communications, and all the resources. I'm pretty sure that I'm hillbilly enough to survive with what I have, but I wonder how long the government would let me do that. On a side note it also made me think about all those old 1950 bomb shelters. I think that if a man had one of those in his back yard that was well stocked he could go to ground and lay low until some form of infrastructure was restored.

[SHOOTALL]

After taking some time to digest what I saw on that show, I guess my main concern is with the government. It seems all the money that is being spent is to keep the gov. protected and not much for the civilians(imagine that). It seems to me that an EMP strike would only make the government stronger, they would declair martial law, control all the communications, and all the resources. I'm pretty sure that I'm hillbilly enough to survive with what I have, but I wonder how long the government would let me do that. On a side note it also made me think about all those old 1950 bomb shelters. I think that if a man had one of those in his back yard that was well stocked he could go to ground and lay low until some form of infrastructure was restored.

wouldn't want to waste a good crisis now would we ?

[jrnsuz]

Regarding the military being "prepared" for massive EMP attack or act of God, as a former NBC NCO in a combat engineer unit in the late '80s I can state for a fact that it just ain't so. There were many discussions in those days about exactly this scenario, and unless the military has done a LOT of upgrading since, they're as reamed as any of us. The gov. may try to establish control
but they'll be doing it with straight-leg light infantry.

Another thought occurs; nuclear power stations store expended fuel rods on-site in cooling pools inside containment buildings. These fuel rods stay hot for years and require constantly circulating cooling water to keep them tamped down. What happens when the generators running the pumps go down? Even without EMP killing the power, in any TSHTF situation who keeps those pumps running and where do they get the fuel for gens long term? Anybody live downwind? Ever heard of Chernobyl?

[Almtnman]

jrnsuz, I have heard that the reason our military hasn't had any EMP problems to date is that the enemy would also knock out all their electronics and grid system and would not be able to do anything either. What we have to think about is a rogue nation like North korea blasting one off over our country with a long range missile that would not immediately affect them back there.

[Dixie Dude]

Nuclear power stations have containment domes in case of a meltdown in the US.  The one in Russia did not. 

[teamnelson]

Dixie, yeah, I think we have precautions in place to protect ourselves from a nuclear event at a power site.

But what we do not have is robust EMP protection; sure some things are, and some things aren't, but its piece meal. And given the interdependent nature of "systems" ... let's say your tractor works. Let's say you can still manually pump from your 6,000 gal reservoir, and operate your farm equipment. So what? You're going to run a farm producing food products that can't be delivered anywhere ... unless everyone else also is able to operate their trucks. What about long term storage? Distribution? Everything we do is connected to something else these days, in order for it to work. Personally if I had 40 acres, I might get me a mule, some seed, and some animals; keep my fuel tank treated, and be ready and able to switch to powerless subsistence farming in a jiffy.

[Dixie Dude]

When I visited the Smokey Mountains several years ago, they had an older couple at a "homestead".  They told how it would work.  A family east of the Mississippi should be able to live off 40 acres.  10 acres of pasture/hay production with one milk cow and a mule or horse.  10 acres of wooded area harvested only what you need for firewood.  10 acres of some type of cash crop, corn, wheat, cotton or peanuts in the south.  5 acres for home, barn, corral, chickens, corn crib or siloh, blacksmith area, hog pen.  5 acres of fruit and nut trees.  You would be surprised at what you could produce using only animal and human labor.  If you had a creek, you could set up a mill and/or electric production.  Some mills have the capacity to serve 5-10 homes in the immediate vicinity.  Lots of things to think about.  The Amish do it. 

[Almtnman]

The Amish do it. 

And they do it all without electricity or modern machinery.

[Drilling Man]

The Amish do it. 

And they do it all without electricity or modern machinery.

  aaaaaaw, not exactly!

  The Amish hire me to do tillage for them with my "modern machinery".  Every one of them has a tractor, but they only use it for certain jobs.  They keep it waaay out in the back field, or in a closed barn.  They ALL have cell phones, and pay someone to drive them around.  Some have sawmills, and also do woodworking with hrdraulic powered tablesaws ect...  Their kids work for them without pay, and they always have plenty of kids...  They have sulkies with gas motors on them, that run modern pto powered tools, then pull the sulkies with horses.  They use 12V to power a lot of things, and recharge the batts. at night when they have their diesel motors running as they use modern milkers to milk their goats and cows...

  Yeaaa, they don't look like all that, rideing around in their buggies though, do they?

  DM

[Dixie Dude]

From what I understand, there are different degrees of the Amish, like Mennonites, and southern Holiness groups.  They don't believe in "oweing" anyone anything.  Pay cash for everything.  Some do use modern things, but only pay cash for them.  The not oweing part is what they do best. 

[Dixie Dude]

Maybe the aluminum foiled backed insulation would be good in the attic.

[Drilling Man]

From what I understand, there are different degrees of the Amish, like Mennonites, and southern Holiness groups.  They don't believe in "oweing" anyone anything.  Pay cash for everything.  Some do use modern things, but only pay cash for them.  The not oweing part is what they do best. 

  They owe alright, they just don't owe "us", meaning outside folks.

  They pool their money, and pay eachother back.

  DM

[tacklebury]

The military vehicles electronics are heavily shielded against EMP.  Basically, an attack of immense power will bypass shielding of any type if you are too close to the source.  Nuclear detonation at 10000 feet about our country, one over Colorado and one over about Tennessee would effectively shut us down.  Russia still makes a lot of tube powered items, because they aren't an affected technology.  Primarily, only semiconductors or certain types of diodes are affected.  Such an attack would hurt a lot more things than people think.  Every television, radio, cellphone, computer, post 1975 or so vehicle with electronic ignition or an alternator, many heating furnaces, air conditioners all dead.  System failures would include many sewer, water supply routing, electric grid supply generators, air control towers, most planes would just drop.  Not a pretty picture.

[Pat/Rick]

So then,
could I keep a small wind up (free play) type radio in an ammo can without grounding it ?
should I keep a spare coil for my rototiller in an ammo can as well and should that be grounded/not grounded?
Already have hand saws, brace and bits, crank type small drill, axes, etc.
I have two water sources on my 9 acres, drilled well and gravity line from nearby creek, with water rights, I would need to boil/filter that for cooking, washing, drinking, but certainly can do that. Also have a spring across the road on fed wildlife refuge i could access in emergency.
Think I'll just get a couple of bicycles, where else would I go if.......
Heard on a talk show that irans misiles were tested/launched from barges. Sea borne launch from a converted freighter outside territorial limits would seem the most likely to me, that is, the most bang for the buck in the case of a rogue nation.