Buffalo Bore 38 SPL ammo

[Merle]

Greetings,

I see that BB is advertizing a 150 gr hard cast full wadcutter. It is supposed to be optimized for short barrels & low flash. To top it all off, it is non +P.

Sounds like a winner for older or lighter 2" guns to me.

Experience? Opinions?

 

[Noreaster]

Way back in the day the NYPD had a squad assigned to pharmacy/drug store holdups. They sat in the back rooms and busted the robbers as they came in. The squad had numerous shoot outs, (the leader, Cirillo, had standards for his guys which including competitive shooting skills.) I had a couple of classes with Jim before he passed on. They tried out HC wad cutters and he noted that it made nice clean cut holes in the perps. Jim actually went to the morgue and looked at a corpse they shot during a holdup.  Back then the NYPD had some kind of ban on certain ammo like HP. The BB load sounds like a winner!

[Merle]

Way back in the day the NYPD had a squad assigned to pharmacy/drug store holdups. They sat in the back rooms and busted the robbers as they came in. The squad had numerous shoot outs, (the leader, Cirillo, had standards for his guys which including competitive shooting skills.) I had a couple of classes with Jim before he passed on. They tried out HC wad cutters and he noted that it made nice clean cut holes in the perps. Jim actually went to the morgue and looked at a corpse they shot during a holdup.  Back then the NYPD had some kind of ban on certain ammo like HP. The BB load sounds like a winner!

I have heard of Jim Cirillo & the stake-out squad, but the only thing I remember is a quote attributed to him about shotguns "the twenty is plenty" or words to that effect. It sounds logical to me that a hardcast wadcutter (unlike a soft, swaged bullet) driven at full speed would be nasty, but I have been surprised before.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Frank V]

Merle, I'm a bit late, but I think the BB WC ammo would be a good choice. I have tried their 158g lead SWC HP non +P. It's listed at 850fps. Iv'e chronoed it from a 2" @ 873fps. It's listed as non +P on the box. I think it a good choice. The WC should be too.
Frank

[Merle]

Merle, I'm a bit late, but I think the BB WC ammo would be a good choice. I have tried their 158g lead SWC HP non +P. It's listed at 850fps. Iv'e chronoed it from a 2" @ 873fps. It's listed as non +P on the box. I think it a good choice. The WC should be too.
Frank

Not too late! I'm planning to try that one too, as my S&W Chiefs Special is an older one & not rated for +P.  Thanks for the feedback & especially the chrono info. Just one question, though. How was the recoil & muzzle flash as compared to similar (other brands) loads?

 

[LouisianaMan2]

Hi Merle,
I like Buffalo Bore's ballistics, bullet shapes, and the fact that they tailor the bullet hardness to the specific application.

I presume someone, somewhere, must have pressure-tested their ammo to verify their claims of "better living through chemistry."  :-) Does anyone out there know of a website where such info is available?

Even if the pressure is indeed sub-+P, does anyone know how Merle's older Chief's Special will hold up to the increased recoil of such a powerful load? I've seen posters caution that the cylinder and barrel of some older designs are plenty strong for heavy loads, but that the yoke design and/or action may suffer battering from the increased recoil forces. I'm a history guy, not an engineer, so I profess no expertise, but my plebeian understanding of physics makes this concern seem real to me. I'm open to persuasion on how Buffalo Bore achieves ballistic solutions nobody else can; on the flip side, his business is flourishing, so I believe his claim that his ammo is safe to shoot in older guns. (But "safe to shoot" doesn't necessarily mean that it can't batter a gun into an early trip to the repair shop.)

[Merle]

Hi Merle,
I like Buffalo Bore's ballistics, bullet shapes, and the fact that they tailor the bullet hardness to the specific application.

I presume someone, somewhere, must have pressure-tested their ammo to verify their claims of "better living through chemistry."  :-) Does anyone out there know of a website where such info is available?

Even if the pressure is indeed sub-+P, does anyone know how Merle's older Chief's Special will hold up to the increased recoil of such a powerful load? I've seen posters caution that the cylinder and barrel of some older designs are plenty strong for heavy loads, but that the yoke design and/or action may suffer battering from the increased recoil forces. I'm a history guy, not an engineer, so I profess no expertise, but my plebeian understanding of physics makes this concern seem real to me. I'm open to persuasion on how Buffalo Bore achieves ballistic solutions nobody else can; on the flip side, his business is flourishing, so I believe his claim that his ammo is safe to shoot in older guns. (But "safe to shoot" doesn't necessarily mean that it can't batter a gun into an early trip to the repair shop.)

The wear factor is something I have considered, but don't intend to shoot a lot of this ammo. I intend to practice with less powerful ammo such as wadcutters, and reserve this BB ammo for carry use (and occasional practice) only. Since it is not +P, I really don't expect a serious wear issue. I am also trying to find the time (job is eating me up) to work up some nominal 200 gr loads, as I have read some very interesting posts on the subject.

Thanks for the response and the additional thoughts.

 

[Frank V]

Merle, I'm a bit late, but I think the BB WC ammo would be a good choice. I have tried their 158g lead SWC HP non +P. It's listed at 850fps. Iv'e chronoed it from a 2" @ 873fps. It's listed as non +P on the box. I think it a good choice. The WC should be too.
Frank

Not too late! I'm planning to try that one too, as my S&W Chiefs Special is an older one & not rated for +P.  Thanks for the feedback & especially the chrono info. Just one question, though. How was the recoil & muzzle flash as compared to similar (other brands) loads?

 

Merle, actually the muzzle blast & recoil was quite manegable. I wish it were a bit cheaper, but at $25/ box of 20 it's a bit expensive to shoot a lot of. I'm carrying it though. It shot to the sights too. I think it'd be a great load for the older S&Ws & particularly the Colt "D" frames the DS especially. I don't think they are rated for +P.
Frank

PS: for practice I usually shoot a WC bullet over a light charge of Bullseye or HP38.
FV

[Merle]

Merle, I'm a bit late, but I think the BB WC ammo would be a good choice. I have tried their 158g lead SWC HP non +P. It's listed at 850fps. Iv'e chronoed it from a 2" @ 873fps. It's listed as non +P on the box. I think it a good choice. The WC should be too.
Frank

Not too late! I'm planning to try that one too, as my S&W Chiefs Special is an older one & not rated for +P.  Thanks for the feedback & especially the chrono info. Just one question, though. How was the recoil & muzzle flash as compared to similar (other brands) loads?

 

Merle, actually the muzzle blast & recoil was quite manegable. I wish it were a bit cheaper, but at $25/ box of 20 it's a bit expensive to shoot a lot of. I'm carrying it though. It shot to the sights too. I think it'd be a great load for the older S&Ws & particularly the Colt "D" frames the DS especially. I don't think they are rated for +P.
Frank

PS: for practice I usually shoot a WC bullet over a light charge of Bullseye or HP38.
FV

Thanks for the feedback. I have been using RP 158 LSWC, or a comparable handload of Speer 158 LSWC-HP over Unique. I have shot a handful of the RP +P 158 LSWC-HP and found them to not be much worse for recoil & flash than the standard RP load. Just to be cautious, I only fire a few of them, to minimize wear & tear on my old S&W M36. But they are in the gun when I carry it - I don't think I'll worry about wear if I ever need it for real.

 

[Frank V]

Merle, for years the Chief's Special wasn't rated for +P & I don't think the DS ever was. I'd carry +P in either for defense & practice with lighter loads & not worry about it. The little shooting we'd do to check zero & function with +P won't hurt the gun. It's when we'd use it continously that it'd loosen up the gun.
Frank

[Merle]

Merle, for years the Chief's Special wasn't rated for +P & I don't think the DS ever was. I'd carry +P in either for defense & practice with lighter loads & not worry about it. The little shooting we'd do to check zero & function with +P won't hurt the gun. It's when we'd use it continously that it'd loosen up the gun.
Frank

Mine is not rated for +P, so I only fired a few of them to see how much difference there was in recoil, flash & POI. The rest of the time it is standard pressure loads.

Maybe when my ship comes in, I'll be able to get something that is rated for +P.