Plumber question.....

[TM7]

21 inch open pipe at 20,000psi.  What is the flow rate?


TM7

[PowPow]

One gulf per summer.

[blind ear]

http://www.thegreatcourses.com/ttcx/coursedesclong2.aspx?cid=177

[billy_56081]

Along with this you would have to know the water pressure, the density and viscosity of the oil and the density and percentage of the gas mixture in the oil. We are not pumping water out of a pipe into normal atmospheric pressure so it would be quite a complicated formula.

[mcwoodduck]

Along with this you would have to know the water pressure, the density and viscosity of the oil and the density and percentage of the gas mixture in the oil. We are not pumping water out of a pipe into normal atmospheric pressure so it would be quite a complicated formula.

+1
I sell Pumps and depending on the pressure (size of the impeller, the HP of the motor, and the speed of the motor is how much can be moved through a pipe)  there is a physical limitation to the pipe and depending on Laminar or turbulant flow, that it will not exceed a certain GPM  But le't see I mostly deal with 2.5" pipe so it has a max of about 200 GPM and a 3" pipe will handle 2- 2.5 inch pipes and double for almost each pipe size all the way up.
so a heck of a lot.
What I want ot know is why do they not make a huge plastic / rubber slip and slide that rings the well head and if there is a problem it will inflate and float and allow a tanker to suck out the oil from the plastic tube.  It may not last long and oil may fill the plastic tube quickly but as long as you pumps can over come the supply then you can contain the spill till you can get the well head fixed.
Also we have double walled heat exchangers to keep Black water from potable when using a boiler to heat domestic supply and we have double walled tankers to keep the oil from leaking out.  why are the well heads not fitted with a male thread over colar that a larger diameter pipe can be attached that can be fitted with a shut off valve?  Say 36" and female pipe section can be lowered on the outer ring.  screwed on and a valve at the top of the pipe closed and new pipe attached to the 36" pipe to deal with the spill.
I am just a low tech red neck but it seems kind of simple.

[blind ear]

I think they need to get a high tech plumber involved. Looks like they are way over thinking this thing rather than doing it as simple as possible. They put the bolts in the pipe at the current depth? I would assume they had to because if the caseing were advanceing drill bit the bore would have to be as big as the flange. Oil would be blowing out around the caseing. Right? If they put the bolts in at that depth, they should be able to unbolt it and make a successful connection with something.

If a chainsaw man had been running the saw he would have made the first cut on the load/compression side of the pipe and not have gotten the blade pinched.

In college we always said they hire engineers to design it and hire techs to make it work.

[blind ear]

BP was over a month behind in drilling. They disreguarded safety to push ahead.

Now they don't have enough tanker capacity to hold/ship the oil if they could capture all of the oil. They would have to be able to control the flow, to cut it off and on as they load ships. At this time the oil they can't load would have to be wasted anyway without the capacity to shut off the flow. The oil would still end up floating in the gulf. BP would look real smart in this position.

Wouldn't they look stuped without a shut off valve. I wonder if that is what the delay is. A way to cut the flow off and on without destroying the integrity of the remaining caseing structure. That may be why nothing has been bolted to the exposed flange.

Would there be enough refineing capacity or storage capacity ("IF" there were enough shipping capacity) to take care of the volume of oil if the flow is not controlled, off, on, stop, start?

Would the output of oil from this well, uncontrolled, force prices down on the world and US market?

Just silly thoughts from a country boy. eddiegjr

[magooch]

So, my question is, who owns the oil that is recovered from the sea?  Is it finders keepers, or does BP have some claim to it?

I know it takes a lot of expensive equipment to recover the oil and separate the water, but it actually should be cheaper than drilling etc.  Will the oil be recovered and refined, or will it just be wasted?

[blind ear]

Before some definite time I hope they will use a nuclear seal to stop it if they can't come up with something else. That is if it isn't in a positon that would leak back up through some "fracture" or other things.

Hope thie isn't the Pandora deep water platform.

I feel we are definitely getting the mushroom treatment. eddie

[gstewart44]

I watched on the news this morning video footage of this oily sludge has made its way into the estuaries in NW Florida.   If the crap washes up on the beaches at least it can be raked and shoveled up.   Once it gets in the fragile estuaries its there to stay.  I am just sickened to see the extent of the damage that this spill is bringing; and I fear this is just the beginning.   This scenario plays out in my nightmares frequently:
Louisianna supplies us with 30% of our seafood........
Gulf Coast fishing/shrimping ceases due to contaminated water = no seafood ---> shrimpers and fishermen out of business ---->     estuary breeding grounds for new fish and shellfish ruined for decades so no new generations of seafood are growing ----->    Seafood that is available from Pacific or uncontaminated(hopefully) Atlantic has sky high cost which causes less seafood to be purchased ---> fishing industry in the rest of the country becomes severely hurt because no one will by the ever expensive seafood ----> even more massive unemployment and crippling of our economy.  

As more of the beaches become soiled with the oil fewer tourists will come and spend their $$$.    Depresses the economy even further and adds more unemployment.    this "monster" that BP caused and the Feds have allowed to continue is not going to have a solution I fear within my lifetime.    

[Dixie Dude]

Problem is that it is so deep that only underwater robots can access it.  Someone on the surface using a joystick to operate the robots.  Not a very good situation.  I work with natural gas.  I could calculate it, but I don't have the water pressure it is working against, and it is liquid not a gas which compresses under pressure.  Looks like the could weld a complete encirclement saddle on the side, weld a valve on the saddle, then tap the pipe through a valve, and attach a pipe to the valve on the side to reduce pressure coming out the top which would allow sealing the top.  However, don't know if the robots are precise enough underwater to actually weld something on without cutting through.  I know underwater welding is done by humans on ships, but that is not deep. 

[SHOOTALL]

in gals per second 3.5986e+5
gal.per min. 2.1591e+7
gal. per hr. 1.2955e+9

[SHOOTALL]

That was assuming the 21 inch pipe was standard sch 40 steel pipe which would have been OD . Keep in mind Steel pipe 12 inch and under is ID and over is ID . Point being this calc. is close not knowing this fer sure !

[Dixie Dude]

Is that counting the water pressure pushing against it?  I use atmospheric pressure based on altitude to figure natural gas.  Higher elevations, more cubic feet under a given operating pressure. 

[SHOOTALL]

nope ! i expect it would be at sea level with 14.7 psi . No other info was stated by the OP.

[PowPow]

Heard the thing is 5000 ft deep so outlet pressure would be about 2000 psi.

[billy_56081]

Ok now we need to know the viscosity and density of the oil and the percentage of natural gas in the oil. Then we will have a figure. This is assuming the end of the pipe is not constricted.

[SHOOTALL]

Billy how about pump HP ?

[SHOOTALL]

would there be any effect from the water ? When pumping the head starts after you reach the top or surface . IE in a well 1000 foot deep with water 999 foot deep the head would only be 1 foot  . So the ocean could be looked at as a non issue .

[williamlayton]

The oil pocket is producing pressure--- so ----at the depths we are discussing and the tempretures being produced there is not a lot of pumping too be done.
The problem faced is to regulate the amount of product you release--not much pumping being done.
There may also be a Methane cap involved here--which aggrevates the computations.
Let's just say that BP owns the oil and it is theirs being leaked.
Eventually most of this crude will evaporate.
You can't eat an omlette without breaking an egg.
Blessings

[PowPow]

would there be any effect from the water ? When pumping the head starts after you reach the top or surface . IE in a well 1000 foot deep with water 999 foot deep the head would only be 1 foot  . So the ocean could be looked at as a non issue .

The homework problem is what is the flow rate for the given pressure difference across the resistance of the length of the 21" dia pipe.
The pressure difference is the well pressure (stated as 20kpsi) and the outlet pressure (2kpsi at the discharge point 500 feet under water), or 18kpsi. The unknown mixture of gas and oil make the resistance of the pipe hard to define, so the problem remains unsolved, at least by the GBO bunch.

Once the oil discharges from the pipe, oil and water are at the same pressure, and the problem becomes one of bouyancy.
Constituents of the oil that have a lower density than than water at a given pressure float to the top; constituents with a higher density sink.

[ironglow]

  Too much for one large mouth to stop on it's own.

[Dixie Dude]

If each foot of water weight above this is 2.66 psi, then at 5,000' the water pressure pushing against the oil in the pipe is 13,300 psi.  So the oil has to come out at a greater pressure than 13,300 psi or it would stop coming out and water would go into the well.  That is a lot of pressure.  The most I have ever worked with is 720 psi natural gas. 

[SHOOTALL]

Or the water displaces the oil and it floats up ?

[eye shot]

This all happend before 6-3-1979 in the gulf. The trouble is in thirty years they haven't learned a thing. They are using the same techniques to stop it as they did then. The 79 spill was 30,000 barrels a day and took the better part of a year to stop. 20,000 psi know wonder the sucker blew up and may have spiked higher than that. Kinda like a gun barrel.

[PowPow]

If each foot of water weight above this is 2.66 psi, then at 5,000' the water pressure pushing against the oil in the pipe is 13,300 psi... 

Its not...

Using an online conversion program.

1 pound/square inch = 2.306 foot of water [4 °C]
or
1 foot of water [4 °C] = 0.433 pound/square inch  (not 2.66)

so 5000' is about 2000 psi. still its a lot.
.

[SHOOTALL]

I ask this question - water depth or height determines pressure . Its not the volume . When we test waste pipes we create a head . In most cases 10 foot . This can be with a 2 inch pipe or a 4 inch pipe or really any dia. pipe . It takes 28 inches of height ( head ) to get one pound of pressure . So would it not work to divide depth by 28 inches and then multiply by the square inches of the hole surface  at the well head or pipe ? All the extra water in the gulf really meand nothing other than to dilute oil. If you will its the shaft of water from surface to leak that determines the pressure where the oil is leaking out.

or roughly 791980 lb

[billy_56081]

We must also take inot account that this is salt water which has a specific gravity that is higher than fresh water.