Changing Muzzle loader scope law.

[Cheesehead]

The Natural Resources Board approved a new rule, for 2010, allowing the use of powered scopes for the muzzle loader only season in Wisconsin. I never did like the 1x TC Hawken scope currently attached to my Savage Model 10. It will be immediatly replaced by a 4x Burris Timberline I have laying around. I see no need to buy a high end variable, at this time. I would like to get rid of the 1x, but I have lost both of the adjustment caps.

Cheese

[Doug B.]

The Natural Resources Board approved a new rule, for 2010, allowing the use of powered scopes for the muzzle loader only season in Wisconsin.
Cheese

Does this mean that I cannot use a 1.5-5 power during the regular 9 day deer gun season if I would chose to carry my ML instead of one of my centerfires? Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to cover my butt. Never know what kind of rules our DNR might make!

[Cheesehead]

You always could use your powered scope, on your muzzle loader during regular gun season. This new rule applies to the "Muzzle loader only" season. I do understand your anxiety when it comes to how the game laws read and are interpreted.

Cheese

[crash87]

Seems reasonable to me, and why not? Most muzzle loadering rifles have been designed with centerfire rifle ballistics anyway. It's not primitive muzzeloader season, any modern muzzleloader pretty much mimiks modern centerfire rifles, might as well include the optics. Besides they just made it legal for those who have been doing it anyway. CRASH87

[Doug B.]

You always could use your powered scope, on your muzzle loader during regular gun season. This new rule applies to the "Muzzle loader only" season. I do understand your anxiety when it comes to how the game laws read and are interpreted.

Cheese

Have you never had a single question about how game laws are written and can be interpreted in the small manual we carry around in our pockets while afield? I have made numerous calls to Game Wardens to clarify questions from my Hunter's Education students. I have never been there nor intent to, but do know that this is not the manual that game wardens would haul into a court of law in the case of some, considered unfortunate by the general populous, who face game violations. Theirs contain far more information than I would care to consider late night reading enjoyment anyway. The laws in most states are far more complicated and in-depth to be included in the manuals that are given out at the time of a license sale. Hence my "anxiety" as you would call it. 

[buck460XVR]

Have you never had a single question about how game laws are written and can be interpreted in the small manual we carry around in our pockets while afield? I have made numerous calls to Game Wardens to clarify questions from my Hunter's Education students. I have never been there nor intent to, but do know that this is not the manual that game wardens would haul into a court of law in the case of some, considered unfortunate by the general populous, who face game violations. Theirs contain far more information than I would care to consider late night reading enjoyment anyway. The laws in most states are far more complicated and in-depth to be included in the manuals that are given out at the time of a license sale. Hence my "anxiety" as you would call it. 

 I have found anytime I have a question about game laws that by going to the Wisconsin DNR website and asking a question via their feedback link, I generally get a  quick and courteous reply. Always felt that if needed, a copy if their response would be accepted as evidence. Also have found over the years that calling Madison @ 1-888-WDNRINF gives you a better answer than the local Warden. Local Wardens will give you THEIR interpretation of the law and may not be the same interpretation that the Warden in the next county has. If the lady in Madison does not have the answer for you right away, she will get the answer and call you back.

  I really hoped that when Wisconsin modified their ML rules that they would include approving the use of unscoped handguns using straight walled handgun cartridges during the ML season as so many other states do. Especially since they have deviated from the "primitive" weapon designation once applied to muzzleloaders used during the ML season. I thonk the folks at the spring DNR meetings are gettin' sick of my whining about it.

[1sourdough]

 I look forward to these new scope allowances with the M-L.

[ihookem]

It sure makes it easier but I wonder if more people will hunt muzzy season. I have no problem with open sights at 40- 50 yds. It seems to take something away from the muzzy season. On the other hand, I wonder just how many will quit after last year.

[jcn59]

I can't hardly bring myself to shoot deer when the population is so low on the public land I prefer to hunt.   Doesn't fit my definition of conservation.   Still, I go out & hunt for the "big one" during the buck seasons.   Maybe not this year, though.  I might have to show Matt Frank that I won't buy a license after he explained that the reason the deer kill was so low in the north was that there were so few doe tags available.  Heck, you could buy as many $12. doe tags as you wanted.  Of course, you couldn't fill them, but so what.  The dnr got your money anyways.

So, the motivation to switch to scopes with magnification is pretty low for me.  Nonetheless a good idea, and one or two increments away from the usual dnr insanity & things that don't make sense.

[jb fastcat]

Actually in the 2010 manual it still states that magnification during the muzzy season is not legal. I called the dnr to ask about this and they said there is a chance it might pass before hunting season or it could be in legislation for some time.

[Cheesehead]

This just goes to show, they can not be trusted.

Cheese

[TribReady]

Buy a new scope, mount it, sight it in, then remove it just before the season because "they changed their mind"   

[steve]

Scoped muzzle loaders this isn't muzzleloading.  The DNR should ban all the in lines. My personal references it should be flint locks and cap locks.  Time to go back to the true muzzle loading.

[Cheesehead]

Scoped muzzle loaders this isn't muzzleloading.  The DNR should ban all the in lines. My personal references it should be flint locks and cap locks.  Time to go back to the true muzzle loading.
[/quot



You go right ahead and stick to the flint lock.

And you want more gun banning laws to make other people use flint locks.

More guns laws is your idea of what?

[steve]

You call yourself a muzzle loader that's a joke. Cheesehead where is the challenge with the inlines with scopes or in lines period.  City hunter too lazy to go out an actually hunt for deer

[Cheesehead]

Any other guns you would like banned. WE should all be forced by new gun laws, to hunt just like you. Listen to what you are saying.

It is beyond foolish.

Cheese

[TribReady]

steve, we all understand where you're coming from, but your preferences on hunting "your way" needs to stay "your way." That may be what's the right way to hunt for you, but you just can't expect everyone to hunt that way.

If you want to, perfectly fine with everyone, but just don't then try to limit someone else and their method/style of hunting. As soon as we start doing that, then we are all doomed to limitations and restrictions and bans that will only come back to hurt all hunters.  Cheesehead sees the inevitable end to your line of thinking and it is destructive to all of us.

Keep your opinions and preferences in the right perspective. If you feel real "hunting" is with flintlocks or recurves or spears or whatever, than good for you, we all wish you the best. Just dont limit what I feel may be the best hunting experience for me.

[Cheesehead]

10-Day Muzzleloader Only Deer Season
• A proposal to remove the restriction on telescopic sights on muzzleloaders during
the 10 day muzzleloader only season may be in effect this fall. Please check with
the DNR before the season begins.


A quote from this years regulations.

Cheese

[steve]

Really.  Where is the challenge between cap locks and in lines. With the in lines scoped.  You might as well just take your rifle and make long shots. You disagree with me so be it. The way the in lines are made today should be considered the lazy man hunting.  So where is the challenge in that.  Should put in lines in the right category with rifles the way they make them now.

[MGMorden]

Really.  Where is the challenge between cap locks and in lines. With the in lines scoped.  You might as well just take your rifle and make long shots. You disagree with me so be it. The way the in lines are made today should be considered the lazy man hunting.  So where is the challenge in that.  Should put in lines in the right category with rifles the way they make them now.

You use a firearm?  Rubbish!!! That's not REAL hunting.  You should be out there using a longbow!!! Anybody too lazy to sneak within 25-30 yards is just a city hunter who doesn't need to be in the woods.  They should ban all guns and compound bows from hunting.

<sarcasm off>

See where that line of reasoning leads?  There's always somebody who's going to want to one-up you and do it EVEN better.  When the challenge is personal, that's fine.  When you try to impose YOUR preferences on others though, then you're only going to win so long as someone with more "refined taste" doesn't come along and push you out too. 

[steve]

I did use a long bow actually I grew up using one and that was fun sneaking up on deer.  I use the same technique with my cap lock

[Cheesehead]

Steve,

You assume much when you call me lazy.

 Few people work harder then me when it comes to hunting.

 You do not know me.

 I have bagged deer with a variety of muzzle loaders, hand guns, rifles and bows.

I know a lot about you, just from your misguided statements in this thread.

Good luck with your new laws.

Cheese

[jb fastcat]

Just remember Cheese.  "They walk among us"

Can't wait til they pass that law. I guess I am going to be one lazy hunter. 

By the way I am going to drive my truck to work tomorrow.  I guess I am lazy since I don't just walk several miles to work. 

[1sourdough]

 I mostly hunt IL with my tricked out Knight. Of course no centerfires are allowed for deer down there. I recently mounted my Leupold 1.75-6 & will also use the same gun if I hunt during the WI M-L season. I do take it easy on the anterless when hunting 'up-north'. It's a different story on the private land in central IL my buddy leases though.

[doghawg]

 I use a revolver during regular gun season because it's more of a thrill on the rare occasions that I actually see a buck in the Forest county cedar swamp I hunt. This one was from the '08 season and you'd have to be logged on to see the pic.

[ihookem]

You can take any gun muzzleloader season.I might take my .270 Win out there with my 12x Leopold and the biggest thrill would actually seeing a deer after rifle season. Don't matter what scope you got on, ya got to see a deer first way back in unit 20. I have seen 3 deer in 5 seasons. And don't say I'm a lazy hunter. Some years I walk a few miles and can hardly find a fresh track.

[buck460XVR]

Really.  Where is the challenge between cap locks and in lines. With the in lines scoped.  You might as well just take your rifle and make long shots. You disagree with me so be it. The way the in lines are made today should be considered the lazy man hunting.  So where is the challenge in that.

The challenge is what you make it. What is any more lazy about using a scoped in-line in a large tract of heavily hunted public land as opposed to a flinklocker sittin' over a bait pile on  private land with limited access? As long as the state of Wisconsin says it's legal and a hunter uses good ethics and fair chase, what's your gripe? I remember 45 years ago when compound bows came out, folks like you were screamin' they should be outlawed too........that compounds were gonna take all the challenge outta the sport and decimate the deer herd. 40 years later, they haven't wrecked the sport, they have enhanced it by making bows more accurate and giving more folks the opportunity to hunt with a bow. If you want to keep your weapon primitive and challenge yourself, good for you. If Cheese wants to put a scope on his inline and the state of Wisconsin says it's legal to do, good for him too. You both can enjoy your hunt, your way. Ain't that what it's all about?

[carbineman]

I did use a long bow actually I grew up using one and that was fun sneaking up on deer.  I use the same technique with my cap lock

Steve, You should be hunting with a dull butter knife and chase the deer down on foot and then bag him. That would be a challenge. Or possibly jumping out of a tree onto the deers back and stab them with a sharpened spoke from a bicycle rim. You should be out promoting this type of kill method.

Really the longbow isn't much of a challenge.

[DANNY-L]

This sounds like the same path that happened here in NY hurry up and wait. Scopes on muzzle loaders is the way to go,people get alot better hit on a deer and they can get a good look at the size of the deer,I think here it saved alot of fawns from being shot. Scopes on a good inline sure you can make 200yd shots,and the challenge is knowing you only have the one shot to do it with.

[jb fastcat]

Well it's official. They just pushed the magnification law through. So let's get em scoped up boys!